Let's rephrase that.

Your manifold was a split turbine design before you added

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trevahhhh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the funky wastegate pipe </TD></TR></TABLE>

What is the point of seperating the collector, only to join it back together?

 

FWIW, it seems to me that optimal configuration is 3 WGs

#1WG 1-4 -&gt; dump
#2WG 2-3 -&gt; dump
#3WG 1-4 to 2-3

#1,#2 you will see on split scroll manifolds - it's not that unusual
#3 is to convert the manifold from pulse converter to constant pressure (i.e. conventional equal length) after turbo is spooled fully

just my 2cents, rip me to shreds Joey.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blundar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">FWIW, it seems to me that optimal configuration is 3 WGs

#1WG 1-4 -&gt; dump
#2WG 2-3 -&gt; dump
#3WG 1-4 to 2-3

#1,#2 you will see on split scroll manifolds - it's not that unusual
#3 is to convert the manifold from pulse converter to constant pressure (i.e. conventional equal length) after turbo is spooled fully

just my 2cents, rip me to shreds Joey. </TD></TR></TABLE>
nice insight...never even though of the 3rd concept for you

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blundar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">FWIW, it seems to me that optimal configuration is 3 WGs

#1WG 1-4 -&gt; dump
#2WG 2-3 -&gt; dump
#3WG 1-4 to 2-3

#1,#2 you will see on split scroll manifolds - it's not that unusual
#3 is to convert the manifold from pulse converter to constant pressure (i.e. conventional equal length) after turbo is spooled fully

just my 2cents, rip me to shreds Joey. </TD></TR></TABLE>



One of the patents I drew info from for the manifold theory writeup proposed using a valve (read: wastegate) to join the two halves of a split turbine manifold once desired boost pressure had been acheived. That way you gots your spool and you gots your hp/psi top end all wrapped up in once enchilada. That only requires two wastegates: one to join them, and one to vent them. The third one to rule them all is fantasy.

This stuff starts becoming really really hard to plumb, you know.

 

I am going to use the Holset HC1 on a stock Y8 on like 8-10 psi. i hope it works. hahaha

 

Now I've fitted a larger wastegate... 44mm tial...
Took one 27mm pipe from the 1&4 runner, and one 27mm pipe from the 2&3runner, and joined to a 44mm pipe into the tial. With a seperator "flap" inside the 44mm pipe, all the way up to the wastegate valve. That way I basicly keep the split on the manifold.

It works great. Haven't connected the boot controller yet, but I do get the 13psi the spring give... And I got it at 3200rpm
With the HX40 wheel now
It doesnt spool much later with the HX40 compressor than the HX35. I would guess 100-200rpm later maximum.

I'm happy!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MrBond &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now I've fitted a larger wastegate... 44mm tial...
Took one 27mm pipe from the 1&4 runner, and one 27mm pipe from the 2&3runner, and joined to a 44mm pipe into the tial. With a seperator "flap" inside the 44mm pipe, all the way up to the wastegate valve. That way I basicly keep the split on the manifold.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is ******* crafty as hell. Props.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MrBond &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now I've fitted a larger wastegate... 44mm tial...
Took one 27mm pipe from the 1&4 runner, and one 27mm pipe from the 2&3runner, and joined to a 44mm pipe into the tial. With a seperator "flap" inside the 44mm pipe, all the way up to the wastegate valve. That way I basicly keep the split on the manifold.

It works great. Haven't connected the boot controller yet, but I do get the 13psi the spring give... And I got it at 3200rpm
With the HX40 wheel now
It doesnt spool much later with the HX40 compressor than the HX35. I would guess 100-200rpm later maximum.

I'm happy! </TD></TR></TABLE>
you my friend are a genious...nice thinkin outside the box...

 

some more info about spoolup. did some comparing with the HX35 compressor and too small internal wastegate vs a HX40 wheel and the new tial. I looked at some logs from my ECU.

With the old HX35 I did reach 17psi at 3430rpm in a third gear pull.
With the new HX40 wheel it's at 17psi at 3750rpm, so 320rpm/9% later, in third.

I ran a few degrees more advance on the HX40 that might give later spool, and the wastegate does open a bit gradually on the HX40. New wastegate has a 13psi spring and some slack parameters on the boostcontrol in my ECU.
(while the gate was SHUT with the HX35 compressorwheel)
So I guess the wheel give about 6-7% decreased spoolup. (it's supposed to flow 10% more up top, so thats just fair)

Oh, and in a fifth gear with the HX40 wheel I reach 14psi at 3100rpm, and 17psi at 3282rpm. Nice spoolup

Oh, and my 740cc injectors are at 76% dutycycle at 6000rpm/20psi/12.3:1 afr, so I guess I am looking at 400+hp at that rpm
(still braking in the engine with mineral oil. 93octane pump)

Full synthetic oil, 990cc injectors and tuning up to 28-29psi, 8000rpm, and I guess it will be at 600hp easy.

 

dynoed a HY35 powered 84mm 9:1 LS/Vtec w/ GSR cams, Ferrea valvetrain, new-school SSAC manifold (the twisty-turny one), 3" DP, 3" exhaust no cat no resonator no muffler, stock B16 intake manifold, precision 880 injectors, 3bar MAP sensor, MSD 6AL, MSD wires, NGK 5672-9 gapped at .025"

Car was ******* weird on many counts.
almost certainly have some wastegate issues that got progressively worse - spool times got longer later in the session - weird. It's clearly visible in the dyno graphs. AVC-R was set to 3.0kg/cm2 and 90% duty cycle with training turned off (90% across board on solenoid duty in monitor mode) with 10psi spring in wastegate and saw a max of 22psi boost. Significant amount of boost falloff (2-4psi) at boost levels above 17psi. Go figure.

top end of the motor was decidedly lacking... Spent 5hrs on the car - more timing, less timing, leaner, richer... Didn't really go anywhere. Weird.

Car made 423whp / 350ft-lbs with a severely slipping clutch on 22psi - 93 octane pump gas

Car made 350whp / 300 ft-lbs on 16psi - 93 octane pump gas

Car made 330whp / 272 ft-lbs on 13psi - 93 octane pump gas

Car made 280whp / 223 ft-lbs on 8psi

Car made 181whp / ?? ft-lsb on 0 psi

Car tuned on a Dyno Dynamics Loading dyno. These are not dynojet figures. Do not compare them to dynojet figures if you are a numbers *****. Wastegate popped open with shop air, AFR and Timing tuned pretty extensively at 0psi. Timing / minor AFR adjustments at higher boost levels. FV+Gear Crome tools were damn ******* close once dialed in properly and boost comp applied / dialed in - so very few AFR adjustments were really needed. Shape of torque curve essentially unchanged from 0psi to 15psi (where clutch DEFINATELY started slipping) which is kinda odd... Normally see top end pick up considerably with boost.

92F degree ambient / 52% humidity. Standard SAE correction used (1.037 I believe???) Charge temps did not drop below 105 degrees during the entire session, and most of the dynoing was done with charge temps ~110F.

I'm not entirely unhappy with the result, but am really scratching my head as to why the car fell off so much up top. 2L w/ vtec head w/ GSR cams is too much for HY35? Seems weird.

Dyno sheet will follow, probably tomorrow / friday / saturday when I have time to get it off my digicam, upload it, etc.

At this point, I'm hesitant but am leaning towards the HY35 being better suited to LS motors...


Modified by blundar at 2:25 AM 6/1/2006


Modified by blundar at 2:39 AM 6/1/2006

 

Two reasons the car didn't do so good. First off the stock b16a intake manifold wont let the motor carry torque far enough to make any good power. Second the Hy35 uses a 9cm turbine housing which would choke the hell out of a stock gsr at 8,000rpm let alone a 2.0. The car would defiantly benefit for a turbo with a large turbine housing such as a hx35 with a 12 or 14cm housing.

 

Jaymez recommended 12-16 cm^2 turbine for 2.0/VTEC with 9K revlimit.

That 90% duty **** makes me think you had wastegate problems. Turbine pressures through the roof, forcing the gate open up top? Leak in signal line? It does have SSAutoshit mani, and oil leaks, sounds like a not fully sorted ride.

 

ok, so I'm hypermotivated when drunk...

 

and SSAC / XSP 60mm gate...

The thing can obviously bypass enough exhaust to keep the turbo from spooling - had ZERO boost creep with the gate popped open with air compressor.

Anyways, I need to **** the woman, sleep and reawaken in 6 hours to tune two more turbo GSRs (no holsets this time) and the alcohol is getting to me...

Night all. Draw what conclusions you may. The wastegate problems are pretty obvious comparing the 8psi runs to the later runs. Look at the shape of the boost curve - the boost controller was OFF on the 8psi run and maxed out on everything past 15psi. Additional boost was gained from tightening the bolt on the top of the wastegate. (ghetto)

 

Hello all,

I have been following this thread a bit. I do not own a Honda, though I have helped build a couple in the past, including a 10 sec ITR. I am looking to upgrade from the s16g I am running in my avenger though, and the possibility of reaching my current goals with a $200 turbo has my interest peaked.

Motor in question is a 420a (2.0L). 7300 rpm redline. Car currently makes low-mid 300whp w/ 22psi through a s16g (essentially a mitsu 16g with a 10cm exhuast housing w/ a T3 flange). The new goal is anything north of 400whp, on pump.

My prereq for doing so however are not wanting to hack up my current manifold -- so my question is, has anyone attempted using the internal wastegate w/ the hx35. I know some of the 2.3 Ford guys do with success, just wondering if anyone here has.

I know that these wastegate generally have setting up near 30psi, but that is easily changed by modding the actuator or using a different one entirely.

I do realize the inherit performance disadvantage of using the internal wg, and the boost creep issues to be had when running such a large turbo at low boost levels. But has anyone attempted to run an internal wg w/ one of these larger holsets yet? I had previously just been looking at GT30s and GT32s since they seem to be the largest internally gated turbos w/ a t3 exhaust flange commonly available -- but with how much these holsets flow and the prices they go for, well, wow!

My other question is about the HE351CW -- one just recently sold on ebay for ~$270. Looking at the pictures though, it had some type of solenoid on the compressor housing connected to the WG actuator -- anyone know what this is?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blundar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Night all. Draw what conclusions you may. The wastegate problems are pretty obvious comparing the 8psi runs to the later runs. Look at the shape of the boost curve - the boost controller was OFF on the 8psi run and maxed out on everything past 15psi. Additional boost was gained from tightening the bolt on the top of the wastegate. (ghetto)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Eh, maybe you were running such high turbine pressures that it overcame spring pressure? A 60mm gate is a lot of surface area to press against.

 

The car has a Skunk 2 manifold on it too and head has some portwork done as well as 1mm oversize valves, springs, and retainers

Just a little more info for you guys to think about hes a friend of mine

 

Geez, I just spent like an hour and a half reading through most of this thread... I was planning on getting a garrett turbo but now I want a holset HX35 but I want people's opinion on if I would actually benefit with a Holset. Here's my setup:

Stock 1.8L GSR
B16 Y1 LSD Tranny
550cc Injectors
Equal Length Mani
38mm WG
TurboXS BOV
TurboXS MBC
3" Exhaust
Neptune or Crome w/ Expert Tuner

This is going to be in a 90 EF Hatch so I'm wondering if I'll even be able to fit an HX35. I'm also not planning on going over 10 psi, EVER, because I'm going to have major tracion issues with just 10 psi. You guys say that they are meant for higher pressures so would I just be wasting an awesome turbo on this setup or does it deserve an HX35?? Thanks!

 

don't bother with a HX35 for 10psi. There are better turbos for that boost level.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blundar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">don't bother with a HX35 for 10psi. There are better turbos for that boost level.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's what I kinda figured... What would you recommend? I can get pretty much any t3/t4 for under $500.

 

.57 trim T3/T04E is really sweet on 1.8 liter engines, spools quick and makes good power. If you've more money to spend, one of the GT-compressored high profile turbos would do you well... SC61, etc.

OTOH, I've always been a big fan of ignoring "psi" and shooting for a power figure... plenty of good inexpensive turbos that will hit a power figure if you don't care about "psi"... reliability is still there, and tends to cost less my way, but what do I know?

 

You could always go with an HY35, or even an HX30 if you wanted to stick with a holset. Both have relatively quick spool on a 1.8, and will give you room for more power if you ever want to shoot above 10psi.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.57 trim T3/T04E is really sweet on 1.8 liter engines, spools quick and makes good power. If you've more money to spend, one of the GT-compressored high profile turbos would do you well... SC61, etc.

OTOH, I've always been a big fan of ignoring "psi" and shooting for a power figure... plenty of good inexpensive turbos that will hit a power figure if you don't care about "psi"... reliability is still there, and tends to cost less my way, but what do I know? </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's very true. My power goal is only around 250 whp. So I was thinking like a 50 trim t3/t4. Would that be too small?

Oh, and sorry, didn't mean to jack the Holset thread.

 

For the GSR in your profile? I'd go for a .57, still efficient for a lower power level like that, but spools great and plenty of room to grow.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For the GSR in your profile? I'd go for a .57, still efficient for a lower power level like that, but spools great and plenty of room to grow.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks, I've been looking and I'm trying to decide between these.
t3/t4 63 "V" Trim w/60 comp. and .48
t3/t4 57 Trim w/60 comp. and .63

I'm assuming since the first hasn't even been mentioned that the 57 trim would be best. Thanks guys and again, didn't mean to jack the Holset thread.