RWD H22 project has commenced
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Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Traverse City, Michigan, USA
Re: (ClubSiRacer)
no, putting an engine up front is about the same as getting one of those front mount air filters. No thanks!
As for a massive trunk, it actually isnt that large. I had to cut a huge section of the front-side of the trunk out to get the engine up in there. It would actually be the EASIEST to do in a hatch or coupe!
As for a massive trunk, it actually isnt that large. I had to cut a huge section of the front-side of the trunk out to get the engine up in there. It would actually be the EASIEST to do in a hatch or coupe!
Re: (Tinker219)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tinker219 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It would actually be the EASIEST to do in a hatch or coupe!</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'd love to do this to a hatch. Leone of Honda Tuning is still trying to build his 86 Killer I think...
I'd love to do this to a hatch. Leone of Honda Tuning is still trying to build his 86 Killer I think...
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Canada
Re: (DaX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It would actually be the EASIEST to do in a hatch or coupe!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Tinker and I were talking about this last year - I'm about to start my twin motor EG hatch in teh next couple weeks!
Tinker and I were talking about this last year - I'm about to start my twin motor EG hatch in teh next couple weeks!
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From: Traverse City, Michigan, USA
Re: (DaX)
ya, hes got ALOT of work into that damn thing...lol. Im using existing suspension pieces because its so easy to do so. If I want to, I can go back and lighten everything up by making my own to replace the stock ****.
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From: Tampa, FL
Re: (ClubSiRacer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ClubSiRacer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just drop a dummy motor in the front. Gutted out so it weighs nothing and no axles. Just so when you pop the hood up front people are like "No way that is a SOHC!?". But explaining the big rear end and smokey burnouts from the back might be a little difficult...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yah, you're gay.
Yah, you're gay.
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Irwin, PA, USA
Hey Tinker...
Go to Jamar and buy a 50/50 proprtioning valve for breaks and put it on the clutch line. It will keep the pressure equal to both slaves. THe only thing I would worrie about is if the master will have enough volume to push the slaves out the entire way.... or at least enough to open the presure plate.
just somthing to think about
Go to Jamar and buy a 50/50 proprtioning valve for breaks and put it on the clutch line. It will keep the pressure equal to both slaves. THe only thing I would worrie about is if the master will have enough volume to push the slaves out the entire way.... or at least enough to open the presure plate.
just somthing to think about
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From: VA
Re: (Tinker219)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tinker219 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my bare h22 engine/trans weighs in at around 80 lbs. thats W/OUT manifolds and accessories.</TD></TR></TABLE>
80lbs?.. i shipped a h22 block.. all internals, no head, or pulleys.. and that thing weighed almost 125lbs by itself.. i barly had enough room to work with for shipping materials cuz the weight limit was 150
80lbs?.. i shipped a h22 block.. all internals, no head, or pulleys.. and that thing weighed almost 125lbs by itself.. i barly had enough room to work with for shipping materials cuz the weight limit was 150
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Blacksburg, VA
Re: RWD H22 project has commenced (J. Davis)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Right, motors don't create power, they create drag. I forgot John Force runs an engineless tube chassis when he races, boy do I feel dumb.
It's another variant on power:weight ratio. The rear turbo'd H22 carries most the weight, so does that mean a SOHC auto that gives you stunning 17 second performance in a stock 2600 lb Del Sol will now only give 17 second performance in a rear engined "1000 lb" Del Sol, thereby getting in the way of the much faster turbo H22 drivetrain? No.
Stunna, the point at which the SOHC auto drivetrain in question starts dragging is how fast you can free rev the engine. If the last D15B7 auto I drove could accelerate as fast as it free rev'd, I'd be running single digit 1/4's.
Don't think of an automatic transmission as a solid mechanical linkage instead of a - literally - liquid coupling. And what do different gear ratios have to do with anything when the auto transmission shifts itself?
You care to explain that? Because neither of the two people you quoted did... brryder just put his foot in his mouth, and keebler65 was stating a hypothesis and asking for clarification, not stating fact.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Its a difference in forces.
Your argument:
When the H22 produces more force than the D16, you have to add the vectors. Adding the big H22 vector to the smaller D16 vector will end up just adding the magnitudes since direction is the same. I.E. - Lets use HP figure: 500 HP H22 + 100 HP D16 = 600 Total HP
My addition:
Say the H22 is produces a force of 100 N at any given velocity at the rear wheels
The D16 is producing a force of 20N at the velocity as above.
The combined force will actually be 60, an average of the two. Since they are on the same frame, the H22 will actually have to be doing WORK to push the front wheels at the same speed as the rear.
Immagine a two person bicycle. If the guy in the front is holding his feet on the pedals and not providing any force to pedal the bike, the rear driver has to first, overcome the front drivers force of having his feel on the pedals and then the rest of the energy goes into pedaling the bike.
The fact that its a hydro linkage doesnt change anything. The princle is still the same. It produces less force, averaging them makes less power.
Right, motors don't create power, they create drag. I forgot John Force runs an engineless tube chassis when he races, boy do I feel dumb.
It's another variant on power:weight ratio. The rear turbo'd H22 carries most the weight, so does that mean a SOHC auto that gives you stunning 17 second performance in a stock 2600 lb Del Sol will now only give 17 second performance in a rear engined "1000 lb" Del Sol, thereby getting in the way of the much faster turbo H22 drivetrain? No.
Stunna, the point at which the SOHC auto drivetrain in question starts dragging is how fast you can free rev the engine. If the last D15B7 auto I drove could accelerate as fast as it free rev'd, I'd be running single digit 1/4's.
Don't think of an automatic transmission as a solid mechanical linkage instead of a - literally - liquid coupling. And what do different gear ratios have to do with anything when the auto transmission shifts itself?
You care to explain that? Because neither of the two people you quoted did... brryder just put his foot in his mouth, and keebler65 was stating a hypothesis and asking for clarification, not stating fact.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Its a difference in forces.
Your argument:
When the H22 produces more force than the D16, you have to add the vectors. Adding the big H22 vector to the smaller D16 vector will end up just adding the magnitudes since direction is the same. I.E. - Lets use HP figure: 500 HP H22 + 100 HP D16 = 600 Total HP
My addition:
Say the H22 is produces a force of 100 N at any given velocity at the rear wheels
The D16 is producing a force of 20N at the velocity as above.
The combined force will actually be 60, an average of the two. Since they are on the same frame, the H22 will actually have to be doing WORK to push the front wheels at the same speed as the rear.
Immagine a two person bicycle. If the guy in the front is holding his feet on the pedals and not providing any force to pedal the bike, the rear driver has to first, overcome the front drivers force of having his feel on the pedals and then the rest of the energy goes into pedaling the bike.
The fact that its a hydro linkage doesnt change anything. The princle is still the same. It produces less force, averaging them makes less power.
Re: RWD H22 project has commenced (integra-modder)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by integra-modder »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Since they are on the same frame, the H22 will actually have to be doing WORK to push the front wheels at the same speed as the rear.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly how I was thinking, I just couldn't say it!
Since they are on the same frame, the H22 will actually have to be doing WORK to push the front wheels at the same speed as the rear.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly how I was thinking, I just couldn't say it!
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From: Traverse City, Michigan, USA
Re: (Dr Honda)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dr Honda »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey Tinker...
Go to Jamar and buy a 50/50 proprtioning valve for breaks and put it on the clutch line. It will keep the pressure equal to both slaves. THe only thing I would worrie about is if the master will have enough volume to push the slaves out the entire way.... or at least enough to open the presure plate.
just somthing to think about</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanx for the tip! Next up is a line-lock of sorts for an E-brake. Anybody have any experience in this matter???
Go to Jamar and buy a 50/50 proprtioning valve for breaks and put it on the clutch line. It will keep the pressure equal to both slaves. THe only thing I would worrie about is if the master will have enough volume to push the slaves out the entire way.... or at least enough to open the presure plate.
just somthing to think about</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanx for the tip! Next up is a line-lock of sorts for an E-brake. Anybody have any experience in this matter???
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Joined: Nov 2003
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From: winnipeg, MB, Canada
have you considered any sort of ventilation for the engine bay. most mid-engined cars have hood vents to help let hot air escape, and side vents to let cool air in, since they cant use the grille up front like a front engined car can (you know all this, but i just thought i'd state the obvious). a few ideas might be...
-custom vented fiberglass engine cover or vents molded into stock one.
-roof mounted scoop a la TOM's MR2
-rear grille a la ferrari f355 or 360 challenge
-side scoop(s) molded into 1/4 panels
-custom vented fiberglass engine cover or vents molded into stock one.
-roof mounted scoop a la TOM's MR2
-rear grille a la ferrari f355 or 360 challenge
-side scoop(s) molded into 1/4 panels
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Traverse City, Michigan, USA
Re: (superstud)
I had planned on tinning the underside of the car for aero reasons, I will have some sort of louver design on the bottom that will "suck" air out the bottom of the engine bay. Other than that, some holes on the rear bumper will go all the way through, and this will help too!
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From: Vila Velha, Brasil
Re: (Tinker219)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its a difference in forces.
Your argument:
When the H22 produces more force than the D16, you have to add the vectors. Adding the big H22 vector to the smaller D16 vector will end up just adding the magnitudes since direction is the same. I.E. - Lets use HP figure: 500 HP H22 + 100 HP D16 = 600 Total HP
My addition:
Say the H22 is produces a force of 100 N at any given velocity at the rear wheels
The D16 is producing a force of 20N at the velocity as above.
The combined force will actually be 60, an average of the two. Since they are on the same frame, the H22 will actually have to be doing WORK to push the front wheels at the same speed as the rear.
Immagine a two person bicycle. If the guy in the front is holding his feet on the pedals and not providing any force to pedal the bike, the rear driver has to first, overcome the front drivers force of having his feel on the pedals and then the rest of the energy goes into pedaling the bike.
The fact that its a hydro linkage doesnt change anything. The princle is still the same. It produces less force, averaging them makes less power.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks for explaining it......The guy who said it would work is a 100% ediot. I didn't even bother explaning it to him. Thanks again
Your argument:
When the H22 produces more force than the D16, you have to add the vectors. Adding the big H22 vector to the smaller D16 vector will end up just adding the magnitudes since direction is the same. I.E. - Lets use HP figure: 500 HP H22 + 100 HP D16 = 600 Total HP
My addition:
Say the H22 is produces a force of 100 N at any given velocity at the rear wheels
The D16 is producing a force of 20N at the velocity as above.
The combined force will actually be 60, an average of the two. Since they are on the same frame, the H22 will actually have to be doing WORK to push the front wheels at the same speed as the rear.
Immagine a two person bicycle. If the guy in the front is holding his feet on the pedals and not providing any force to pedal the bike, the rear driver has to first, overcome the front drivers force of having his feel on the pedals and then the rest of the energy goes into pedaling the bike.
The fact that its a hydro linkage doesnt change anything. The princle is still the same. It produces less force, averaging them makes less power.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks for explaining it......The guy who said it would work is a 100% ediot. I didn't even bother explaning it to him. Thanks again
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: KC, MO
Re: (Buraku)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Buraku »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yah, you're gay.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Go eat a bowl of dicks... I was just kidding. **** people.
I still think it would be funny to pop the hood and see a dirt covered D series under the hood for people who wouldnt know any better.
Secondly, its not your project so again, go eat a dick...
Lastly, I enjoy how people just decide to populate otherwise cool threads with bullshit bickering like this. No wonder I never post here. Its not worth the effort... Everything here is about being on the bandwagon and if you arent on the bandwagon you "dont know anything". The smartest automotive person in the ******* world could post here and unless they drove a gutted hatch with Rota's and a CF hood and a H22 swap with a Lovefab manifold and Jimfab radius arms and... **** i could go on forever... My point is proven.
Tinker, great project... I wish I had the resources to do the same as it has been something I wanted to make myself for awhile. (Along with a turbo H22 powered rail car for ***** and grins.) Dont let the haters **** on your parade, just give them the finger and laugh when you finish and it is a monster.
Yah, you're gay.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Go eat a bowl of dicks... I was just kidding. **** people.
I still think it would be funny to pop the hood and see a dirt covered D series under the hood for people who wouldnt know any better.
Secondly, its not your project so again, go eat a dick...
Lastly, I enjoy how people just decide to populate otherwise cool threads with bullshit bickering like this. No wonder I never post here. Its not worth the effort... Everything here is about being on the bandwagon and if you arent on the bandwagon you "dont know anything". The smartest automotive person in the ******* world could post here and unless they drove a gutted hatch with Rota's and a CF hood and a H22 swap with a Lovefab manifold and Jimfab radius arms and... **** i could go on forever... My point is proven.
Tinker, great project... I wish I had the resources to do the same as it has been something I wanted to make myself for awhile. (Along with a turbo H22 powered rail car for ***** and grins.) Dont let the haters **** on your parade, just give them the finger and laugh when you finish and it is a monster.
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From: Danbury, CT, 06804
lol, k 1 other thing. snice u are king fabricater, you should just cut the stock "widebody" off and weld in like 4" of metal, then im sure you could still buy a set of $150 flares from tp if you still need more clearence. o yea and all u ppl who say the delsol isnt widebody stock, **** u...
i didnt know what to call it. the 1/4 panels almost flare out if u look at them. do you have any pix of the car before and after u crashed it?
i didnt know what to call it. the 1/4 panels almost flare out if u look at them. do you have any pix of the car before and after u crashed it?
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From: Traverse City, Michigan, USA
Re: (KraZEtEggIE)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KraZEtEggIE »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">where is the air intake gonna go? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Prolly wont use one. I still may scoop the trunklid for super fresh air, but I wont be using a filter at all(maybe panty-hose).
Prolly wont use one. I still may scoop the trunklid for super fresh air, but I wont be using a filter at all(maybe panty-hose).
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Re: (Tinker219)
Someone on here (forget who) said that on a dyno they lost power when using a screan compared to a filter.
1) I would never run a street car w/o a filter
2) If your not gunna use one, how about using an air horn?
1) I would never run a street car w/o a filter
2) If your not gunna use one, how about using an air horn?
Thread Starter
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From: Traverse City, Michigan, USA
Re: (00SilverLS)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00SilverLS »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Someone on here (forget who) said that on a dyno they lost power when using a screan compared to a filter.
1) I would never run a street car w/o a filter
2) If your not gunna use one, how about using an air horn?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Panty-hose flows "aight" compared to screen. Except, I would definately put screen behind the panty-hose so that it wont get sucked into the turbo at 25-30 psi.
The S housings are pretty much air-horn enough arent they? lol. Ive got the "cover" off a Ractive filter that is 4" on the small end, and flares to 6". I might strap that on somehow and try to get it poked through the trunk lid. This is of course IF it looks nice.
1) I would never run a street car w/o a filter
2) If your not gunna use one, how about using an air horn?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Panty-hose flows "aight" compared to screen. Except, I would definately put screen behind the panty-hose so that it wont get sucked into the turbo at 25-30 psi.
The S housings are pretty much air-horn enough arent they? lol. Ive got the "cover" off a Ractive filter that is 4" on the small end, and flares to 6". I might strap that on somehow and try to get it poked through the trunk lid. This is of course IF it looks nice.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Traverse City, Michigan, USA
Re: (Tinker219)
Here are some pictures of my partial cage.
The part of the triangle down by my feet looks like it isnt done. Because it isnt! There will be another pipe connected there, going through the firewall, and up to where the UCA/Struts will mount in the front.
Ive got enough flanges for one more manifold, and then Im at a STAND STILL until I get more in(could be 2-3 weeks
). If this is the case, there will be a flurry of activity on the car. Unfortunate this had to happen(my machinists got a HUGE job from GM, and I got put on the back burner), but I have to keep everyone in my shop busy. I cant think of a better way than to get some work on the car done 
The part of the triangle down by my feet looks like it isnt done. Because it isnt! There will be another pipe connected there, going through the firewall, and up to where the UCA/Struts will mount in the front.
Ive got enough flanges for one more manifold, and then Im at a STAND STILL until I get more in(could be 2-3 weeks
). If this is the case, there will be a flurry of activity on the car. Unfortunate this had to happen(my machinists got a HUGE job from GM, and I got put on the back burner), but I have to keep everyone in my shop busy. I cant think of a better way than to get some work on the car done
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From: Canada
Re: RWD H22 project has commenced (integra-modder)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by integra-modder »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Say the H22 is produces a force of 100 N at any given velocity at the rear wheels
The D16 is producing a force of 20N at the velocity as above.
The combined force will actually be 60, an average of the two. Since they are on the same frame, the H22 will actually have to be doing WORK to push the front wheels at the same speed as the rear.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
How do you get 100 and 20 to add up to 60???????
If you have a 100N force pushing from the rear of the object, and a 20N force pulling from the front, your overall force on the object is 120N in the same direction. Who taught you how to add vectors?
Granted - yes there will be some "slight' force needed to accelerate the front wheels, but by your theory - any 2wd car won't move because the 2 of the wheel won't be putting any force on and will just be 'dragging' the car down!
So tell me "Master of Physics" - what would happen if both motors put out exactly the same force??? According to your "theory" it will only be like having 1 motor.
Say the H22 is produces a force of 100 N at any given velocity at the rear wheels
The D16 is producing a force of 20N at the velocity as above.
The combined force will actually be 60, an average of the two. Since they are on the same frame, the H22 will actually have to be doing WORK to push the front wheels at the same speed as the rear.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
How do you get 100 and 20 to add up to 60???????
If you have a 100N force pushing from the rear of the object, and a 20N force pulling from the front, your overall force on the object is 120N in the same direction. Who taught you how to add vectors?
Granted - yes there will be some "slight' force needed to accelerate the front wheels, but by your theory - any 2wd car won't move because the 2 of the wheel won't be putting any force on and will just be 'dragging' the car down!
So tell me "Master of Physics" - what would happen if both motors put out exactly the same force??? According to your "theory" it will only be like having 1 motor.
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From: Manchester, NH, USA
Re: (ClubSiRacer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ClubSiRacer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just drop a dummy motor in the front. Gutted out so it weighs nothing and no axles. Just so when you pop the hood up front people are like "No way that is a SOHC!?". But explaining the big rear end and smokey burnouts from the back might be a little difficult...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, good idea. People who know the difference between SOHC and DOHC won't notice the huge fender flares, the exhaust coming out by the plate, the turbo (which is missing from the SOHC motor), the spinning rear tires, the 345 rear tires...
Do you even think before you talk?
"Hey guys, let's put a weedwhacker motor in the front of a NSX, and then we can tell people that's the only motor!"
Go home.
Yeah, good idea. People who know the difference between SOHC and DOHC won't notice the huge fender flares, the exhaust coming out by the plate, the turbo (which is missing from the SOHC motor), the spinning rear tires, the 345 rear tires...
Do you even think before you talk?
"Hey guys, let's put a weedwhacker motor in the front of a NSX, and then we can tell people that's the only motor!"
Go home.