RWD H22 project has commenced
Junior Member
Joined: May 2001
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From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Re: (xenocron)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xenocron »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How about a Supercharged Auto H22 in the front...and the rear turbo manual H22?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm pretty sure with 2 engines you wouldn't need to worry about low end power...think about it, 4.4L of displacement (well really 4.3) in a light-*** chassis. I'd be more concerned with having proper head restraints.
and btw autos suck
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm pretty sure with 2 engines you wouldn't need to worry about low end power...think about it, 4.4L of displacement (well really 4.3) in a light-*** chassis. I'd be more concerned with having proper head restraints.
and btw autos suck
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,233
Likes: 0
From: ArounD
Re: RWD H22 project has commenced (Scott - 93HB Si)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Scott - 93HB Si »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Granted - yes there will be some "slight' force needed to accelerate the front wheels, but by your theory - any 2wd car won't move because the 2 of the wheel won't be putting any force on and will just be 'dragging' the car down!
So tell me "Master of Physics" - what would happen if both motors put out exactly the same force??? According to your "theory" it will only be like having 1 motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You ever try to push a car in gear? Its much easier in neutral isnt it. The only way to have to engines benefit the car is to have to engines at the same horspower (as close as possible). Or the more powerful power/drive train will be pushing/pulling an extra load (the less powerful wheels and the engine there attatched to.
get it? i think we have beat this friggin subject to death. If i were TINKER i wouldnt even bo posting any more. you hooligans dont even appreciate it. your arguing is seriously taking away from the knowledge, craftsmanship, and patience of this awesome project that you all can ONLY ARGUE about.
keep up the good work tinker
Modified by MassScene at 10:59 AM 2/4/2004
Granted - yes there will be some "slight' force needed to accelerate the front wheels, but by your theory - any 2wd car won't move because the 2 of the wheel won't be putting any force on and will just be 'dragging' the car down!
So tell me "Master of Physics" - what would happen if both motors put out exactly the same force??? According to your "theory" it will only be like having 1 motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You ever try to push a car in gear? Its much easier in neutral isnt it. The only way to have to engines benefit the car is to have to engines at the same horspower (as close as possible). Or the more powerful power/drive train will be pushing/pulling an extra load (the less powerful wheels and the engine there attatched to.
get it? i think we have beat this friggin subject to death. If i were TINKER i wouldnt even bo posting any more. you hooligans dont even appreciate it. your arguing is seriously taking away from the knowledge, craftsmanship, and patience of this awesome project that you all can ONLY ARGUE about.
keep up the good work tinker
Modified by MassScene at 10:59 AM 2/4/2004
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,233
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From: ArounD
Re: RWD H22 project has commenced (kpt4321)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kpt4321 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If you're sliding a box across the floor (you=10N) and your weak anorexic girlfriend comes (she=1N) and helps you push, do you end up with less force because you average the two out? **** no.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Lets say you and your girlfriend were attatched and you pushed faster and harder than she could you would have to pull her a long wouldnt you?
If you're sliding a box across the floor (you=10N) and your weak anorexic girlfriend comes (she=1N) and helps you push, do you end up with less force because you average the two out? **** no.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Lets say you and your girlfriend were attatched and you pushed faster and harder than she could you would have to pull her a long wouldnt you?
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,483
Likes: 1
From: On the HT bandwagon
Re: (xenocron)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xenocron »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How about a Supercharged Auto H22 in the front...and the rear turbo manual H22?
You get the best of all worlds:
- Instant Power (SC)
- Mid Range & High End Power (Turbo)
- No shifting issues (1 manual, 1 auto)
And I'm guessing you could figure a way to use some of the exhaust gases from the front engine to some how spin an even larger Turbine on the turbo in the back for even more added power.
Wow, this thread really gets your imagination going!
Good work Cody </TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't think an auto up front and manual in the rear would work because both engine's RPM's will be way off and each tranny could be in a different gear at times.
How would any twin motor setup work with these factors? Wouldn't the motors have to be nearly exact to try to keep RPM in the same area? I don't understand how it would work
You get the best of all worlds:
- Instant Power (SC)
- Mid Range & High End Power (Turbo)
- No shifting issues (1 manual, 1 auto)
And I'm guessing you could figure a way to use some of the exhaust gases from the front engine to some how spin an even larger Turbine on the turbo in the back for even more added power.
Wow, this thread really gets your imagination going!
Good work Cody
</TD></TR></TABLE>I don't think an auto up front and manual in the rear would work because both engine's RPM's will be way off and each tranny could be in a different gear at times.
How would any twin motor setup work with these factors? Wouldn't the motors have to be nearly exact to try to keep RPM in the same area? I don't understand how it would work
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
From: Irwin, PA, USA
Hey Tinker...
You asked about the Jamar Park-Lock.... Ive used them in a couple dune buggys... they work great as long as you keep the sand out of them.
If you want one for your project... I have a brand new one that I was going to use in my Jeep after an axle swap... but I opted to just make a set of cables for the regular E-break.
I'll sell it to ya cheap if you want it. ($25+ship)(new)
PM me.
You asked about the Jamar Park-Lock.... Ive used them in a couple dune buggys... they work great as long as you keep the sand out of them.
If you want one for your project... I have a brand new one that I was going to use in my Jeep after an axle swap... but I opted to just make a set of cables for the regular E-break.
I'll sell it to ya cheap if you want it. ($25+ship)(new)
PM me.
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 984
Likes: 0
From: Boost, Town, U.S.A.
Re: (Dr Honda)
Attention Everyone
This thread is for a sick *** car, with <U>ONE</U> engine in it. Please shut up about all the twin engine theory. When Cody starts a thread for the 2nd motor, that will be the appropriate time to spout gibberish for him to ignore.
Sincerely,
The Management
Modified by SleepyEG at 11:51 AM 2/4/2004
This thread is for a sick *** car, with <U>ONE</U> engine in it. Please shut up about all the twin engine theory. When Cody starts a thread for the 2nd motor, that will be the appropriate time to spout gibberish for him to ignore.
Sincerely,
The Management
Modified by SleepyEG at 11:51 AM 2/4/2004
Whether I'm wrong or not, here's how I see it. Let's say the engine in back is what's pushing the car at about 40 mph. Instead of considering an engine in the front, let's say you decide to jump out and start pushing. At 40 mph, your little legs won't be able to keep up with the engine in back, and if the bottom of your shoes had tread the size of a tire [and similar compound], you would actually be slowing the vehicle down, no matter how hard and how fast you try to run. The only way you're going to see a power gain is if you can run as fast as the motor is pushing the car...and if you could somehow run faster than the motor is pushing the car, the motor would be leeching power from YOU.
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,036
Likes: 0
From: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Re: (keebler65)
what about awd cars that dont split power 50/50 if they're split 60/40 are they loosing power? NO.
if you drive down hill do you go slower than if you drive on flat ground, or if you just coast down a hill? NO. the hill and the engine HELP each other push the car.
sorry to contribute to this ****...
if you drive down hill do you go slower than if you drive on flat ground, or if you just coast down a hill? NO. the hill and the engine HELP each other push the car.
sorry to contribute to this ****...
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 984
Likes: 0
From: Boost, Town, U.S.A.
Re: (SleepyEG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SleepyEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Attention Everyone
This thread is for a sick *** car, with <U>ONE</U> engine in it. Please shut up about all the twin engine theory. When Cody starts a thread for the 2nd motor, that will be the appropriate time to spout gibberish for him to ignore.
Sincerely,
The Management
Modified by SleepyEG at 11:51 AM 2/4/2004</TD></TR></TABLE><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SleepyEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Attention Everyone
This thread is for a sick *** car, with <U>ONE</U> engine in it. Please shut up about all the twin engine theory. When Cody starts a thread for the 2nd motor, that will be the appropriate time to spout gibberish for him to ignore.
Sincerely,
The Management
Modified by SleepyEG at 11:51 AM 2/4/2004</TD></TR></TABLE><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SleepyEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Attention Everyone
This thread is for a sick *** car, with <U>ONE</U> engine in it. Please shut up about all the twin engine theory. When Cody starts a thread for the 2nd motor, that will be the appropriate time to spout gibberish for him to ignore.
Sincerely,
The Management
Modified by SleepyEG at 11:51 AM 2/4/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>
This thread is for a sick *** car, with <U>ONE</U> engine in it. Please shut up about all the twin engine theory. When Cody starts a thread for the 2nd motor, that will be the appropriate time to spout gibberish for him to ignore.
Sincerely,
The Management
Modified by SleepyEG at 11:51 AM 2/4/2004</TD></TR></TABLE><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SleepyEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Attention Everyone
This thread is for a sick *** car, with <U>ONE</U> engine in it. Please shut up about all the twin engine theory. When Cody starts a thread for the 2nd motor, that will be the appropriate time to spout gibberish for him to ignore.
Sincerely,
The Management
Modified by SleepyEG at 11:51 AM 2/4/2004</TD></TR></TABLE><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SleepyEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Attention Everyone
This thread is for a sick *** car, with <U>ONE</U> engine in it. Please shut up about all the twin engine theory. When Cody starts a thread for the 2nd motor, that will be the appropriate time to spout gibberish for him to ignore.
Sincerely,
The Management
Modified by SleepyEG at 11:51 AM 2/4/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,848
Likes: 0
From: Islip, CA, USA
Re: (playAho)
dewd dont u k0 the new way to make ur oponent really sl0. just like put an rc car motor on the back of his kaa... since its really sl0 it will average w/ his 120hp civic n only have like 70hp. i wina lot of l00t this way at the3 stre3tc races on friday. 4sk jesse.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,273
Likes: 1
From: Traverse City, Michigan, USA
Re: (Dr Honda)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dr Honda »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey Tinker...
You asked about the Jamar Park-Lock.... Ive used them in a couple dune buggys... they work great as long as you keep the sand out of them.
If you want one for your project... I have a brand new one that I was going to use in my Jeep after an axle swap... but I opted to just make a set of cables for the regular E-break.
I'll sell it to ya cheap if you want it. ($25+ship)(new)
PM me.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sent!
As for all the automatic front engine posts, Im just kind of ignoring them. I see no point in spending countless hours wiring up a piece of **** automatic transmission that wll only add weight to everything, PLUS, Id have to buy one(because I dont have one), and ya. Nuff said, drop it please.
*I wish the creator of the thread could "moderate" his/her own threads somehow w/out creating a biased thread.*
You asked about the Jamar Park-Lock.... Ive used them in a couple dune buggys... they work great as long as you keep the sand out of them.
If you want one for your project... I have a brand new one that I was going to use in my Jeep after an axle swap... but I opted to just make a set of cables for the regular E-break.
I'll sell it to ya cheap if you want it. ($25+ship)(new)
PM me.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sent!
As for all the automatic front engine posts, Im just kind of ignoring them. I see no point in spending countless hours wiring up a piece of **** automatic transmission that wll only add weight to everything, PLUS, Id have to buy one(because I dont have one), and ya. Nuff said, drop it please.
*I wish the creator of the thread could "moderate" his/her own threads somehow w/out creating a biased thread.*
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,263
Likes: 0
From: Northern, VA
Re: (DaX)
Umm.. nice try but again this makes no sense.. First off the example of someone pushing is a horrible example, because a motor has no problems getting to certain speeds because of the tranny and the fact that it has wheels, not legs.. anyway..
Your argument would be something along the lines that the motor in the back would have to be making so much damn power, and have the traction, to beat the motor in the front from even being able to rev, which is simply ludicrous. Next time you're in a car plant your foot on the gas in neutral, and it's pretty self explanatory then. If the motor in the back can accelerate the car faster than the motor in the front can rev, then you have so much power/traction that there's absolutely no need for a motor in the front.
Either way think of it like this.. The motor in the front exerts a force on the front wheels(torque), that accelerates the car. Hp is merely torque in terms of time, so you're simply adding a force in the front to the force in the back.
Does that make sense?
-Mike
Your argument would be something along the lines that the motor in the back would have to be making so much damn power, and have the traction, to beat the motor in the front from even being able to rev, which is simply ludicrous. Next time you're in a car plant your foot on the gas in neutral, and it's pretty self explanatory then. If the motor in the back can accelerate the car faster than the motor in the front can rev, then you have so much power/traction that there's absolutely no need for a motor in the front.
Either way think of it like this.. The motor in the front exerts a force on the front wheels(torque), that accelerates the car. Hp is merely torque in terms of time, so you're simply adding a force in the front to the force in the back.
Does that make sense?
-Mike
The Boot
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 9,841
Likes: 0
From: Arizona, US
Re: (DaX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Whether I'm wrong or not, here's how I see it. Let's say the engine in back is what's pushing the car at about 40 mph. Instead of considering an engine in the front, let's say you decide to jump out and start pushing. At 40 mph, your little legs won't be able to keep up with the engine in back, and if the bottom of your shoes had tread the size of a tire [and similar compound], you would actually be slowing the vehicle down, no matter how hard and how fast you try to run. The only way you're going to see a power gain is if you can run as fast as the motor is pushing the car...and if you could somehow run faster than the motor is pushing the car, the motor would be leeching power from YOU.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by keebler65 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">good explanation for those that dont get it you need identical setups with identical power bands.
a nice note to end this topic on</TD></TR></TABLE>
and
<FONT SIZE="12">Lets start a thread in the General Discussion and Debate forum on this....</FONT>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by keebler65 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">good explanation for those that dont get it you need identical setups with identical power bands.
a nice note to end this topic on</TD></TR></TABLE>
and
<FONT SIZE="12">Lets start a thread in the General Discussion and Debate forum on this....</FONT>
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
From: Canada
Re: RWD H22 project has commenced (MassScene)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MassScene »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You ever try to push a car in gear? Its much easier in neutral isnt it. The only way to have to engines benefit the car is to have to engines at the same horspower (as close as possible). Or the more powerful power/drive train will be pushing/pulling an extra load (the less powerful wheels and the engine there attatched to.
get it? i think we have beat this friggin subject to death. If i were TINKER i wouldnt even bo posting any more. you hooligans dont even appreciate it. your arguing is seriously taking away from the knowledge, craftsmanship, and patience of this awesome project that you all can ONLY ARGUE about.
Modified by MassScene at 10:59 AM 2/4/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>
First of all, I find it funny that you comment on this - cuz aren't you just contributing to the problem???
Anyways, yes pushing a car in gear is harder than in neutral IF the motor is turned OFF! but if you want an explaination of how 2 motors will physically work:
The Answer to How 2 motor will work together:
think about when you drive up a hill, on a flat road, or down a hill. Your car accelerated faster going down a hill right? This is because you have an addition force on the car contributing to the forward motion. In the case of a downhill acceleration the additional force is gravity, but is translated into a forward moving force by way of the slope of the hill.
Much in the same sense a second motor will help you to accelerate faster by adding an additional forward moving force.
If you have no resistance to the wheels accelerating (like if you put your car up on jackstands), and floor the car, you will get your wheels upto speed pretty damn fast. So for all intensive purposes you can assume that the "drag" the second motor would provide would be negligable.
BTW: good fabrication sofar with the project Cody. Would like to see some more pics of the rear transmition cable linkages and how they are run around the motor.
You ever try to push a car in gear? Its much easier in neutral isnt it. The only way to have to engines benefit the car is to have to engines at the same horspower (as close as possible). Or the more powerful power/drive train will be pushing/pulling an extra load (the less powerful wheels and the engine there attatched to.
get it? i think we have beat this friggin subject to death. If i were TINKER i wouldnt even bo posting any more. you hooligans dont even appreciate it. your arguing is seriously taking away from the knowledge, craftsmanship, and patience of this awesome project that you all can ONLY ARGUE about.
Modified by MassScene at 10:59 AM 2/4/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>
First of all, I find it funny that you comment on this - cuz aren't you just contributing to the problem???
Anyways, yes pushing a car in gear is harder than in neutral IF the motor is turned OFF!
but if you want an explaination of how 2 motors will physically work:The Answer to How 2 motor will work together:
think about when you drive up a hill, on a flat road, or down a hill. Your car accelerated faster going down a hill right? This is because you have an addition force on the car contributing to the forward motion. In the case of a downhill acceleration the additional force is gravity, but is translated into a forward moving force by way of the slope of the hill.
Much in the same sense a second motor will help you to accelerate faster by adding an additional forward moving force.
If you have no resistance to the wheels accelerating (like if you put your car up on jackstands), and floor the car, you will get your wheels upto speed pretty damn fast. So for all intensive purposes you can assume that the "drag" the second motor would provide would be negligable.
BTW: good fabrication sofar with the project Cody. Would like to see some more pics of the rear transmition cable linkages and how they are run around the motor.
The Boot
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 9,841
Likes: 0
From: Arizona, US
The Official "ARGUE THE 2 ENGINES IN ONE CAR" thread...
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=756304
thanks....no need to keep posting this gibberish here, so lets keep this OT now.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=756304
thanks....no need to keep posting this gibberish here, so lets keep this OT now.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,724
Likes: 1
From: Hillburn, NY, USA
Re: (Smokinsax)
Is a stock Honda water pump going to be able to move enough fluid from the back of the vehicle all the way to the front radiator? I know its just more overall fluid because of the volume of the system...but will the pump be working harder?
just curious how that works...
just curious how that works...
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,517
Likes: 1
From: ME
Re: (xenocron)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xenocron »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is a stock Honda water pump going to be able to move enough fluid from the back of the vehicle all the way to the front radiator? I know its just more overall fluid because of the volume of the system...but will the pump be working harder?
just curious how that works...</TD></TR></TABLE>
good question. seems like it would be harder to push more fluid through more pipes, more friction right? an electric water pump might be the anwser.....OR a sohc with no internals that could push your girlfriend in a twin engine boat downhill, but if your running it might not work unless the boat is faster than a sohc with no pistons or a box on the floor that you just add the vector to and sutract the balance of your checking account. (if it has an auto tranny that is) It's basic string theory you were supposed to learn in kindergarten sheesh! I don't know why you guys can't grasp it. man, other peoples kids!
just curious how that works...</TD></TR></TABLE>
good question. seems like it would be harder to push more fluid through more pipes, more friction right? an electric water pump might be the anwser.....OR a sohc with no internals that could push your girlfriend in a twin engine boat downhill, but if your running it might not work unless the boat is faster than a sohc with no pistons or a box on the floor that you just add the vector to and sutract the balance of your checking account. (if it has an auto tranny that is) It's basic string theory you were supposed to learn in kindergarten sheesh! I don't know why you guys can't grasp it. man, other peoples kids!
