Car acting funny.. Turbo????
06-04-2005, 05:09 PM
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Car acting funny.. Turbo????
JUNE 3, 2005
Hey guys, In the past two days I took off my turbo and clocked it a different way so that the oil feed line is (almost) right above the shaft for better lubrication and longer turbo life.. hopefully.. Anyways, I put everything back on and cranked her up.. no oil leaks and I think I had a small exhaust leak but I couldn't tell, the smoke didn't stink. I think it may just have burning a little bt of the water off, i dunno..
So I'm driving home and don't really get on it at all, 4k rpm's tops. I havent really ran my car against anyone on the street lately so I went around for a little cruise and some car pulled up by me and I was gonna do a 2nd gear pull by him.. Well I got to around what seemed 4k or 4.5k at WOT and it's like my engine said 'NO'. My RPM's dropped like I took my foot off of the accelerator. I thought soething was dramatically wrong. So I got to the next stoplight and just drove normal but went a little higher in the rev's.. normal... Then I gun it in 3rd and it does the same thing. (sorry for the long post) When I got to my house I looked under my car for any leaks and checked out the engne bay. No leaks under the car BUT around my valve cover there was oil around the oil cap. like.. a 2" radius. I took a flash light and looked in the head. I saw no oil at all.
Now take into mind that I just changed my oil less than a week ago.
I started the car, and the valve train sounds kinda bumpy, but it has always sounded like that (I have crower springs/retainers/cams/ferrea exhaust valves/the rest is stock). While the car was running I took off the oil cap and looked down there. There looked to be almost no oil in there. I could see my intake cam spinning and I could see the bottom of my head. A little bit of oil came out in like little dots, not much at all. When I shut my car off some smoke was coming out of the hole in the valve cover.
This can't be right, any suggestions? Like I said I'm not leaking oil and it wasn't doing this before I took off my turbo. Also te turbine wheel is spinning and I can still boost, all seems normal but the problem I stated above.
BTW, My setup: Revhard t3/t4 turbo, lot of head work, bolt ons, Hondata s200b tuned for about 2 weeks. I don't normally drive hard, I use mobil 1 full synthetic 5w30 with 150k miles on block, around 300-400 on new head parts, stock head parts (lifters, etc are from stock head).
Someone suggested to me that maybe my computer went into 'Limp mode'. I don't think it did because I can still take it past 4k RPM's but not at WOT. Someone also suggested maybe my hondata had some kind of boost cut. I don't (that I know of) because I can still boost, just not at WOT. I need help! Here are some pictures...
My valve cover when I first popped my hood an how my new fitting is..
Here is a picture of how my oil return line is set up.
JUNE 4, 2005
Today I reset my ECU and looked around my car in the day light while it was running. Nothing unusual except.. when I looked at my exhaust, every now and then it would spit out little black dots like maybe 10 of them, I'm guessing this is oil. After I reset the ECU I let the car warm up and then took it for a test drive and hooked up my computer to it through HondaLogger and recorded it. I don't know where to host this but I have a 2 monite run on my computer if anyone wants to take a look at it and maybe try to help me, e-mail me at nitrus101@hotmail.com or pmsg me and I will send you a coy, help me!!
Derek
Hey guys, In the past two days I took off my turbo and clocked it a different way so that the oil feed line is (almost) right above the shaft for better lubrication and longer turbo life.. hopefully.. Anyways, I put everything back on and cranked her up.. no oil leaks and I think I had a small exhaust leak but I couldn't tell, the smoke didn't stink. I think it may just have burning a little bt of the water off, i dunno..
So I'm driving home and don't really get on it at all, 4k rpm's tops. I havent really ran my car against anyone on the street lately so I went around for a little cruise and some car pulled up by me and I was gonna do a 2nd gear pull by him.. Well I got to around what seemed 4k or 4.5k at WOT and it's like my engine said 'NO'. My RPM's dropped like I took my foot off of the accelerator. I thought soething was dramatically wrong. So I got to the next stoplight and just drove normal but went a little higher in the rev's.. normal... Then I gun it in 3rd and it does the same thing. (sorry for the long post) When I got to my house I looked under my car for any leaks and checked out the engne bay. No leaks under the car BUT around my valve cover there was oil around the oil cap. like.. a 2" radius. I took a flash light and looked in the head. I saw no oil at all.
Now take into mind that I just changed my oil less than a week ago.
I started the car, and the valve train sounds kinda bumpy, but it has always sounded like that (I have crower springs/retainers/cams/ferrea exhaust valves/the rest is stock). While the car was running I took off the oil cap and looked down there. There looked to be almost no oil in there. I could see my intake cam spinning and I could see the bottom of my head. A little bit of oil came out in like little dots, not much at all. When I shut my car off some smoke was coming out of the hole in the valve cover.
This can't be right, any suggestions? Like I said I'm not leaking oil and it wasn't doing this before I took off my turbo. Also te turbine wheel is spinning and I can still boost, all seems normal but the problem I stated above.
BTW, My setup: Revhard t3/t4 turbo, lot of head work, bolt ons, Hondata s200b tuned for about 2 weeks. I don't normally drive hard, I use mobil 1 full synthetic 5w30 with 150k miles on block, around 300-400 on new head parts, stock head parts (lifters, etc are from stock head).
Someone suggested to me that maybe my computer went into 'Limp mode'. I don't think it did because I can still take it past 4k RPM's but not at WOT. Someone also suggested maybe my hondata had some kind of boost cut. I don't (that I know of) because I can still boost, just not at WOT. I need help! Here are some pictures...
My valve cover when I first popped my hood an how my new fitting is..
Here is a picture of how my oil return line is set up.
JUNE 4, 2005
Today I reset my ECU and looked around my car in the day light while it was running. Nothing unusual except.. when I looked at my exhaust, every now and then it would spit out little black dots like maybe 10 of them, I'm guessing this is oil. After I reset the ECU I let the car warm up and then took it for a test drive and hooked up my computer to it through HondaLogger and recorded it. I don't know where to host this but I have a 2 monite run on my computer if anyone wants to take a look at it and maybe try to help me, e-mail me at nitrus101@hotmail.com or pmsg me and I will send you a coy, help me!!
Derek
06-04-2005, 06:31 PM
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Re: Car acting funny.. Turbo???? (FI-LS)
Answer These questions for better help:
1) Did you throw a CEL?
2) How much boost are you running (how are you sure)?
3) Logging the Hondata will show everything going on. What tuning was done when the car is in boost? A/F under boost?
The oil out the valve cover thing is a sign that the engine is under pressure, escaping anywhere it can, usually the oil dipstick though. If you oil level is Ok- not to high, or to low.. I'd start by looking at the PCV valve setup you have.
Of course this does not really explain the lack of power above 4k- sound like fuel/timing issue.
1) Did you throw a CEL?
2) How much boost are you running (how are you sure)?
3) Logging the Hondata will show everything going on. What tuning was done when the car is in boost? A/F under boost?
The oil out the valve cover thing is a sign that the engine is under pressure, escaping anywhere it can, usually the oil dipstick though. If you oil level is Ok- not to high, or to low.. I'd start by looking at the PCV valve setup you have.
Of course this does not really explain the lack of power above 4k- sound like fuel/timing issue.
06-04-2005, 08:44 PM
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1) No I haven't thrown a CEL
2)I'm running 5.5-6 lbs of boost. I know because of boost guage and on the HondaLogger it tells you (there is a 7lb spring in my TurboSmart wastegate but I lose that 1lb through my intercooler.
3)Well, I'm not sure what exactly was done with the tuning while in boost, Anthony (PrecisionH23a) on this site tuned it for me. As far as I know of he played with the mixtures while I was in boost. My A/F under boost is around 11's.. 11.5 if I just gun it, then low 11's if I slowly creep up to my redline.
About my PCV system, I have the Edelbrock Victor X intake mani, The vacuum line running from my PCV valve is not running to anything. I have a hose on it but it is just pointing down through my intake mani. On my breather port, I have 1 line running into a Greddy catch can and and the line coming from the catch can going into the atmosphere. If you need pictures to clarify I can post.
What I don't get is why it did this after I pulled off my turbo. It was working fine until I pulled it off. I thought resetting my ECU would fix it but it didn't, I really don't know what else to do.
Modified by FI-LS at 4:00 AM 6/5/2005
2)I'm running 5.5-6 lbs of boost. I know because of boost guage and on the HondaLogger it tells you (there is a 7lb spring in my TurboSmart wastegate but I lose that 1lb through my intercooler.
3)Well, I'm not sure what exactly was done with the tuning while in boost, Anthony (PrecisionH23a) on this site tuned it for me. As far as I know of he played with the mixtures while I was in boost. My A/F under boost is around 11's.. 11.5 if I just gun it, then low 11's if I slowly creep up to my redline.
About my PCV system, I have the Edelbrock Victor X intake mani, The vacuum line running from my PCV valve is not running to anything. I have a hose on it but it is just pointing down through my intake mani. On my breather port, I have 1 line running into a Greddy catch can and and the line coming from the catch can going into the atmosphere. If you need pictures to clarify I can post.
What I don't get is why it did this after I pulled off my turbo. It was working fine until I pulled it off. I thought resetting my ECU would fix it but it didn't, I really don't know what else to do.
Modified by FI-LS at 4:00 AM 6/5/2005
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06-05-2005, 01:10 PM
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someone else has told me it looks low also, I'm going to get a steel braided line soon and do it diff to where hopefully it doesn't level out at all really.
I think I may have a solution to this problem..
When the car was tuned by PrecisionH23a, We used a wideband O2 on my second O2 bung. The first (primary) is before the test pipe, it's at the end of my downpipe before the flange to connect to my test pipe. The one that we used was on my test pipe, closer to the end of the car. Well, I had an exhaust leak where my downpipe meets my cat and we tuned it like that. Every now and then we'd get a real weird number on the lambda scale (we think because of this) because the exhaust leak was before we had the wideband O2 sensor so it was never really getting a 100% accurate reading.
To give you an idea of what I'm talkin about if you can't picture it, it looked like this..
|==::====|[]|---''-----
| means a flange
= is my test pipe
:: is where we put the wideband
[] is where my leak was (just a small leak, but a leak none the less)
-- is my downpipe
" is y primary O2 sensor
...well, when I clocked my turbo in the right position for the oil feed, I also fixed that exhaust leak. The car is tuned with the exhast leak. Could this maybe throw something off, maybe tell the comp that it's lettin out more air than it really is? Tomorrow I'm going to take the gasket out from imbetween my test pipe and the downpipe and see if the problem is still there.
I think maybe since I fixed that exhaust leak maybe my car is leaning out when I hit full boost? Could this be an option?
I think I may have a solution to this problem..
When the car was tuned by PrecisionH23a, We used a wideband O2 on my second O2 bung. The first (primary) is before the test pipe, it's at the end of my downpipe before the flange to connect to my test pipe. The one that we used was on my test pipe, closer to the end of the car. Well, I had an exhaust leak where my downpipe meets my cat and we tuned it like that. Every now and then we'd get a real weird number on the lambda scale (we think because of this) because the exhaust leak was before we had the wideband O2 sensor so it was never really getting a 100% accurate reading.
To give you an idea of what I'm talkin about if you can't picture it, it looked like this..
|==::====|[]|---''-----
| means a flange
= is my test pipe
:: is where we put the wideband
[] is where my leak was (just a small leak, but a leak none the less)
-- is my downpipe
" is y primary O2 sensor
...well, when I clocked my turbo in the right position for the oil feed, I also fixed that exhaust leak. The car is tuned with the exhast leak. Could this maybe throw something off, maybe tell the comp that it's lettin out more air than it really is? Tomorrow I'm going to take the gasket out from imbetween my test pipe and the downpipe and see if the problem is still there.
I think maybe since I fixed that exhaust leak maybe my car is leaning out when I hit full boost? Could this be an option?
06-05-2005, 02:01 PM
#10
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (FI-LS)
Strange...
When I tuned your car, while doing a long 4th or 5th gear pull starting from 3000rpms the air fuel under boost was a steady 11.9:1 (I went .1 richer because the wideband was pretty far back in the exhaust). Boost cut is at 7psi and timing is very conservative.
The funny thing is if you start a pull in 3rd gear and just 'gun it' from say 4500-5000 rpms the air fuels tapper down to 11.4:1 under boost. I attribute this to the wideband being after the exhaust leak.
Now how bad is the exhaust leak throwing off the af's? The only real way to know is to throw a wideband on and see what it's doing now that you fixed the leak.
The little black dots you see from the exhaust is most likely condensation inside of the exhaust mixing with the 'soot' and blowing out when the engine is running. Send me a copy of the datalog to avengineering1@aol.com
When I tuned your car, while doing a long 4th or 5th gear pull starting from 3000rpms the air fuel under boost was a steady 11.9:1 (I went .1 richer because the wideband was pretty far back in the exhaust). Boost cut is at 7psi and timing is very conservative.
The funny thing is if you start a pull in 3rd gear and just 'gun it' from say 4500-5000 rpms the air fuels tapper down to 11.4:1 under boost. I attribute this to the wideband being after the exhaust leak.
Now how bad is the exhaust leak throwing off the af's? The only real way to know is to throw a wideband on and see what it's doing now that you fixed the leak.
The little black dots you see from the exhaust is most likely condensation inside of the exhaust mixing with the 'soot' and blowing out when the engine is running. Send me a copy of the datalog to avengineering1@aol.com
06-05-2005, 03:30 PM
#12
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (FI-LS)
I checked the datalog... you spiked. I pulled up one of our final logs when we tuned it and we hit a max of 6.1psi. On your log you sent it showed 7.4 psi then boost cut kicked on at 7.5psi way before redline. Your air fuels should be ok since I left it rich up top due to the whole exhaust leak issue.
Whenever you hit boost cut the CEL will come on. That's what the issue is.
Whenever you hit boost cut the CEL will come on. That's what the issue is.
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