might have had a faulty piston return spring?

 

I had the same problem once you might want to check your Zip Strip Hypo Chip!

 

Jeff.. your head was in conversation with Dave a couple of weeks ago... It was determined that the shape of the cloverleafs with the reason why your setup blew headgaskets and the reason why i just blew another headgasket. the welded chambers have too much of a small quench area for your pistons...

I used to think that the cloverleaf was the way to go, but now i feel the cloverleaf would have to be done to the exact piston size that is being used other wise there will be increased detonation issues...

 

the owner of the motor hasn't had any issues with the motor all of last season since "I" did the full rebuild personally. There were other issues with my headgaskets. The big one was i was making my own 2 layer headgaskets so sealing turned into the big issue. you could see it not sealing between mostly cylinders 3 and 4 which scared me into thinking the head or the deck were warped or both. After having everything checked and even milliing 3thou more to be certain....zero issues. Once i put in a stock crv gasket zero issues. I do agree with you however sice the head was and still is only open to 81.5mm and the bore is 84.5 that the compression and cylinder pressure is way up there. Probably a bitch to calculate the true compression the motor is at. 13.3:1 pistons, small chamber, clover leafed, milled head....who knows.

http://a6.cpimg.com/image/8A/9...-.jpg

look at upper left hand corner. the vtec oil passage was filled. the filler that was used wasn't flat with the surface...i think this might have helped in not sealing the head as well.
http://a2.cpimg.com/image/90/9...-.jpg

3 steam cleaned pistons. http://a5.cpimg.com/image/F9/3...-.jpg

me so hoeney

 

Don't forget that welding screws up the heat treat of the head....

 

so what do you do? keep temps down? don't ever clover leaf? what? I see your point...probably not a good road race application

 

The head will eventually work-harden, so after it's blown a couple gaskets and been milled a couple times, it'll settle down.
If you're going to weld a head (correctly), it has to be normalized and re-heat treated, then remachined before use. The process is timely and expensive, so most of the time, you're better off using a piston to net the same effects.

 

So the motor has seen 2 or 3 gaskets from Jeff and 1 from me and now needs a new 1 and the head needs to be milled as well. So I guess it is starting to breakin in... haha... too much work and breakin time just to run a welded head...

 

sorry going off topic. you own the motor?. personally i'd open up the chamber if your doing the motor over and get a cosmetic gasket thats 84.5mm. btw. it saw the gasket that original builder put on, gasket i made for it...then finally an oem crv and terry has never said that there were any issues with it. on the contrary...he told me it was incredible and extremely happy about the reliability. open it up then.

thanks for the IM. detonation very well could have done that from that update.

back on track. How about oversized valves on both intake and exhaust sides for bseries honda motors?

 

I think I was miss quoted here, I just said I did not like the design of the chamber said nothing of blowing head gaskets, I felt it would shroud the valve. Compression won't cause detonation unless you don't have enough of the right kind of fuel in the car.

About taking the guide out I guess it is alot like medicine how differently it treats people, I personally can say from my own experience that it did wear the guide out faster on a race car, but however it was a stock guide and I am not real sure how good they are in the first place, maybe bronze would have lasted longer.
I was really concerned about what the air was doing on the intake side after the valve, I stated before I thought it would create a flag pole effect meaning it would become turbulant after the valve stem much like how air hits a flag pole and is turbulant, am I making any sense?

 

the thought definately makes sense HEAD, But.......In my limited research as I've started doing more and more wet flow testing, I haven't seen this phenomenon happen to the "fuel", so I'd guess the air is probably not affected too much either???

Having the guide or not having it, doesn't seem like it would help too much on this anyway, would it? Since we are definately stuck with the valve stem no matter what?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HEAD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I was really concerned about what the air was doing on the intake side after the valve, I stated before I thought it would create a flag pole effect meaning it would become turbulant after the valve stem much like how air hits a flag pole and is turbulant, am I making any sense?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Head,

Yup I get what you're saying but flow around a valve and in the valve bowl doesn't work that way, .. or shouldn't. generally if the air makes the proper turn at the short turn radious it should meet the back of the valve head on, .. that is why the valve bowl shape is so important. The primary goal in the bowl is to shape it so that happens and you get even flow and distrabution out of the seat into the chamber. Now yes I know that rarely happens, .. but it's good to have goals.

So the so called "flag pole" effect shouldn't happen cause the angle that the air & fuel meet the valve stem should prevent that. Taking the guide out is for other reasons. One the expansion of the air that travels along the roof of the port behind the guide is generally around 4% loss. Also the shape that you can make the roof and how it works with the back of the valve bowl is the key.

I don't want to promote smoking, .. though I smoke, .. but try taking a smoke while the flowbench is running at say 10" h2o and a valve lift of .100", .. let the smoke roll into the port and see where it goes. Also the more port velocity mapping you do the clearer this becomes.

remember thos Top Sportsman and pro stock big block heads? Deep strait valve bowls, .. big sweeping short turns, .. tall ports, .. all to get the air/fuel turned to get a strait shot at the valve.

( WOW, .. my spelling realy realy sucks, .. .. )

Curtis

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lip &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> is at. 13.3:1 pistons, small chamber, clover leafed, milled head....who knows.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Lip,

Any 13.3:1 or 14:1 motor I've ever built for drag racing has had an O ringed block and used a stainless O ring. This much compression is pushing the limit on a crush type gasket.

Just a thought.

BTW, .. that goo in the photo almost make me spew right on my key board, ..

Curtis

 

hehe.......sorry guys, I missed the whole damn day working on the Laskey's car on the dyno..........but it's done they are on their way........and

I'm BAAAAAAaaaaaaaack! lol

 

Thank you Curtis


so this.... (yes thats cruise control ) and a crush type gasket and head not O ringed may = this...



spew yet?.

thanks again.

Pay attention people

 

You guys may also be torquing the head too tight, causing the casting to bow. Those heads are disigned to only handle specific clamping forces associated with the factory's head bolt torque schedule.
As for sealing the engine with 15+-1, mill the deck flat, use a Cometic HP series head gasket, and torque the studs to 4-5 ftlbs more than stock. It won't leak.

 

possibly. but when i pulled it apart the deck and head were perfectly straight as per http://www.martynmotors.com . Also..if thats the case...ARP shouldn't give those recommended torque specifications then over stock.

 

BBLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaP !!!

Aw man, .. how do I get the chunks outa my keyboard, .. ..

Curtis

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EFIGUY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hehe.......sorry guys, I missed the whole damn day working on the Laskey's car on the dyno..........but it's done they are on their way........and

I'm BAAAAAAaaaaaaaack! lol
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Welcome back! while on this subject, .. I'm leaving for a race Thrusday morning and won't be back untill Monday afternoon, .. .. .. .. I'm SURE you guys will miss me.

Now play nice while I'm gone.

Curtis

 

The head can "measure" flat when it's off the engine, but when it's being distroted by excessive clamping force, it's probably no where near flat..
I agree about the specs from ARP, but they're simply giving the maximum torque the studs are capable of handling....

 

maybe that explains why, when I removed the head from the block that it wouldnt lift straight up.. the head would lift to a certain point and get stuck. It had to be rocked back and forth to get it off of the block... almost like when the head was flat, it was straight, when it was free, it was tweeking...

 

That's primarily from having the studs tightened into the block. When they're snugged down all the way, they aren't absolutely straight up, making assembly and removal of the head tough when the threaded part of the studs is in the holes on the head.
You have to watch that carefully, especailly on assembly, as small particles of aluminum can be shaved out of the holes into the cylinders..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EFIGUY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hehe.......sorry guys, I missed the whole damn day working on the Laskey's car on the dyno..........but it's done they are on their way........and
</TD></TR></TABLE>
No one needs to worry about gremlins hiding because Ben found everyone of them living in our car. Damn, what a day. THANKS, Ben

 

No problem buddy..........just get that thing to go 1320 feet in less than 9 seconds and I'll never whine or complain again! lol

-Ben

 

I just gained access to a bone stock B16 head for porting purposes.........
I got a whole new bag of tricks to bring out too..........

Hey HEAD, when you gonna strap one of these things on the bench and take it for a ride? Come on man.............I know you will have a lot to add to our research program here........

Curtis and I have been doing an awful lot of talking about how we are gonna approach this and we're gonna try and share as much info as possible with all of you guys........so stay tuned!