<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Woofer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They'd kill me if I told you who they were! But I can tell you that they do heads for domestic programs as well as for sale to European customers. I also gathered that they do a lot of work for racers in South Africa.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Woofer,

I bet they would kill you, .. .. since welding on Formula Ford heads is not allowed by the SCCA rules, and as far as I know the UK and Aussi rules too.

Myself and Jim at CCH seem the be the top power producers for FF in the US and Canada at the moment. I'd like to expand the market for these heads to the UK.
I'm making an average of 1.7 hp more between 5200 to 5800 then any other porter.

Curtis

 

This shop's attitude is much like that of NASCAR teams, ProStock, etc...you ain't cheating if you don't get caught.
I can tell you that they sell an awful lot of road racing heads...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Woofer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This shop's attitude is much like that of NASCAR teams, ProStock, etc...you ain't cheating if you don't get caught.
I can tell you that they sell an awful lot of road racing heads...</TD></TR></TABLE>

ha ha "NASCAR" shops dont cheat do they

 

Curtis, if you still have that head that T-bone sent you, I was curious what valve size/brand it was, also curious if we were to keep with the same size(hopefully stock) valve maybe test a few different brands? I have a set of SuperTechs, Manley, and Ferrea and I could probably come up with some REV valves but I think they are the same as the Supertechs so I think the only one that needs to be added is skunk2. What do you think?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HEAD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Curtis, if you still have that head that T-bone sent you, I was curious what valve size/brand it was, also curious if we were to keep with the same size(hopefully stock) valve maybe test a few different brands? I have a set of SuperTechs, Manley, and Ferrea and I could probably come up with some REV valves but I think they are the same as the Supertechs so I think the only one that needs to be added is skunk2. What do you think? </TD></TR></TABLE>

It looks like I'll have T-Bone's head for a few weeks while we are waiting for new custom seat cutters to be made, .. . so yes I would be happy to flow valves to compare shapes/brands.

I'll measure the valve to see what size they are, .. .. I know they are SI valves.

Also, .. someone had posted B16 or B18 stock castings they had for cheap, .. I'd like to get a few to run these development tests on, .. ... .. so Tbone can get his head back ;-)

Curtis

 

Naw....nobody cheats anymore with heads, manifolds, .......... Just like we talked today, Brad, if you're not cheating, you're not winning. If the pieces pass tech before and after the race, are they illegal?
My favorite was always "your interpretation of the rules isn't in keeping with the spirit with which they were written...so you can keep the win, but don't do it again!"
I'm sure that if there was more money in FF, there'd be some heads popping up with as-cast porting that had less core-shift, all in a head that couldn't be differentiated from the standard issue pieces. In fact, I wouldn't be too surprized to see one coming from S. Africa.....

 

This is defintely one of the best threads I've read here in a while

Keep the info coming.........

 

AATAP............interesting technology................how does it hold up long term.........and what about in a forced induction setup?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aatap &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is defintely one of the best threads I've read here in a while

Keep the info coming.........</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes, I now can blink. 19 pages later, my head(cranium) feels like its gonna explode. Awesome info guys, thanks(even though I undersood about75% of it!)

 

I was seriously thinking about going with AATAP a year ago.
The last I heard from them they were not expecting production soon.
I still think it'll happen. Theres just a lot of r&d involved before releasing it to cars that live at high rpm & already have variable valve timing (which would be the last thing I would think about if I were them ..I would just stick to Harleys). The technology there is definitely something that can help block reversion, and give intake advance when cylinders need it (reacts to varying pressures because not all cylinders are the same).
A big advantage I thought back then was.. it would allow running a retarded intake cam, and the lowend wouldn't suffer at all. I liked this, because my motor loved the intake cam retarded for highend torque.

 

Had this feeling all along, but isn't it true?: blocking reversion keeps the torque from falling at high rpm [assuming the rod/stroke ratio isn't low ( &lt; 1.4:1)]. I said 1.4:1 as low because thats around where torque is only decreasing past 5250rpm in a production motor.. no matter what mod you give it, torque won't increase past the 5250. It will be diving past that point. What do you guys think? Please give comments, bad or good...

 

Reversion has been such a problem in some unlimited programs I've participated in that we put reed valves in the junction of the manifold runners and head. You could see a reappearance of them in our CF manifolds soon with some of the cam timing we're currently playing with......until then one-way valve seats work reasonably well.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Woofer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Reversion has been such a problem in some unlimited programs I've participated in that we put reed valves in the junction of the manifold runners and head. You could see a reappearance of them in our CF manifolds soon with some of the cam timing we're currently playing with......until then one-way valve seats work reasonably well.</TD></TR></TABLE>

have you tried the NASCAR way of preventing reversion
The old head and manifold floor and roof jump

 

Curtiss here's a pick of my valve seat cutters.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EFIGUY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah, no problem..........just need a few days to dig it all out of the computer and get it scanned into here......probably on monday!
-Ben</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ben , time for show and tell

 

Curtis I got a ?,u said earlier that big chief ports relate to hondas,ie deep and straight bowls.big chief and heads like them love a 55 deg seat.I was wondering if y ever tried an angle such as 50-55 deg.seats. I tried this for a customer in nhra quick class last season and he liked the extra power he felt but he didnt dyno, and i have no bench to test either.


Modified by Fkned2003 at 12:25 AM 6/28/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ninesecrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But isnt it true that the reason for a spun bearing is when it gets too shoft and it actually sticks to the crank? Like the 2nd layer is super soft and when it gets there, your in trouble.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree with you 100% Mike. I think we should charge $500 a set for the ACL's and keep it a secret and maybe finally the other half of the community will realize what they are missing out on.

BTW. A bearing can spin simply becasue the material will fatigue blister and pound out, regardless if there is oil or not. In fact a thin layer of liquid act's like a solid so the oil between the bearing will exert the same pressure as the rod bore. So if the bearing material is soft it will just squeeze out.

You can snap a rod when the rod bearing spins.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rocket &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I agree with you 100% Mike. I think we should charge $500 a set for the ACL's and keep it a secret and maybe finally the other half of the community will realize what they are missing out on.

BTW. A bearing can spin simply becasue the material will fatigue blister and pound out, regardless if there is oil or not. In fact a thin layer of liquid act's like a solid so the oil between the bearing will exert the same pressure as the rod bore. So if the bearing material is soft it will just squeeze out.

You can snap a rod when the rod bearing spins.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your right about material but like I said 99 percent of the time lack of oil
is culprit for spun bearings. If your having issues thenIwould look into what clearances your running. Back in 1998 The NASCAR folks was running stock honda
bearings and let me tell ya It took some time to figure out what they liked. 9000 +RPM 500 miles. with bob wieghts in the 1500 to 1800 gm rangeThats alot of abuse
I know we Modified the bearings and never had any problems again. Then Cleavite
came out with there piece and well It was cheaper and allways available.The rest is history
,BRAD

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MAX_CFM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Your right about material but like I said 99 percent of the time lack of oil
is culprit for spun bearings. If your having issues thenIwould look into what clearances your running. Back in 1998 The NASCAR folks was running stock honda
bearings and let me tell ya It took some time to figure out what they liked. 9000 +RPM 500 miles. with bob wieghts in the 1500 to 1800 gm rangeThats alot of abuse
I know we Modified the bearings and never had any problems again. Then Cleavite
came out with there piece and well It was cheaper and allways available.The rest is history
,BRAD</TD></TR></TABLE>

Cool. The honda apps from clevite don't have the tangs in the right place.

 

rocket what would u reccomend as far as bearings....

 

Same brand as the Laskey's. ACL's all the way. Did you see the pic that Art had?

Here it is again. That **** is unreal.

 

Rocket, those pics are actually stock OEM Honda bearings. This was not off of Mike's car but TYWASH's race car that has 40+ hard runs.

art

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Arturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Rocket, those pics are actually stock OEM Honda bearings. This was not off of Mike's car but TYWASH's race car that has 40+ hard runs.

art</TD></TR></TABLE>

Crap. Thanks for the correction. I'll go back and cut me a big slice of humble pie. LOL.

 

just wanted to say i have read like 90% of this thread, took the last 2.5 hours to do it, and this needs to be in a hall of fame somewhere :D.

awesome discussions guys


and it has changed my choice of porter as well...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Fkned2003 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Curtis I got a ?,u said earlier that big chief ports relate to hondas,ie deep and straight bowls.big chief and heads like them love a 55 deg seat.I was wondering if y ever tried an angle such as 50-55 deg.seats. I tried this for a customer in nhra quick class last season and he liked the extra power he felt but he didnt dyno, and i have no bench to test either. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hi Ed, .. .. sorry it took so long to get back, .. I've been VERY busy, .. not much time for HT.

Seat angles, .. no, I haven't tried anything other then a 45. I've spent most of my time playing with top and bottom angles. It might be worth a look though, .. have you flow tested it to see what the bench likes?????

Curtis