Pat

Just wondering if these standalone management will have the boost retarding and knock control features and all that other stuff a J&S Safeguard has. TIA

dustin

AEM EMS has active knock retard but you don't get the pretty display like the J&S.

Both let you choose timing vs. load (like any real engine management system)

Hondata can't do knock control.

Etylorcen

Dont have you to buy another knock sensor to make it work on the ems tho?

dustin

If your car came with one, you can use it.

Pat

thanks Dustin, so hondata has some sort of boost retard feature? The hondata site tells you to remove any ignition boost retard devices so I guess they must have incorporated one ?

dustin

The idea of "boost retard" does not exist with real engine management systems because you actually select the ignition and fuel curves versus load and rpm...

BlueShadow

I know this thread is kinda old, but about using the stock knock sensor...isn't it true that the stock knock sensors will detect every little knock? (ie. parts clanking about excessively)

dustin

The EMS has a knock filter table that allows you to set the sensor voltage vs. RPM that delineates knock from engine noise.

philo

Hondata will allow you to use stock knock functions if your ECU supports it. Some versions of the software can display a value for knock.

I have used AEM, Hondata and all versions of the J&S and I would say that AEM has the best knock detection system as it can custom tune a knock profile for your specific motor. So it has a better chance to deferentiate between normal engine noise and knock.

IMO: All J&S products are a complete waste of money, I tested them extensively and never found that they could consistently detect knock under varying conditions.

With correct use of any EMS and conservative tuning knock should not be an issue but even with knock control enabled great damage can be done with bad tuning. You can melt your pistons without the onset of knock.

turbo Si

I agree, J&S is not worth the money. The J&S detects knock and pinging by noise. The way i looked at it was by the time it hears the pinging to retard timing, it might be too late and damage may have occured!
I always thought the MSD BTM was a much better investment rather than the J&S! There you can adjust how many degrees you would want to retard your timing per amount of boost. Plus it's much cheaper.
Never the less a stand alone is going to be your SAFEST option!
Good Luck.

rjardy

The opnly way to not have detonation is by using a correctly tunned standalone.The J&S is a tool simple used to detect and corecct timing that leads to detonation, its not a cure all. But it will take timing out in a timely enough maner that no permanent damamge will occur.
i like the J&S for what it is it works well.

Rob

turbo Si

I never meant it to be a cure all. I to run a stand alone. But really, i would invest in a BTM over a J&S! I personally thinks it works better!

John_at_J&S

The "J&S classic" features knock retard only. The Ultra SafeGuard has been out for a while now, and in addition to individual cylinder knock retard, it features boost retard, RPM retard, a MAP Limiter, and a built-in knock indicator LED, to help you dial in the boost retard and RPM retard. The latest version also incorporates the "TPS trick", to take the factory ECU out of closed loop at 0 psi.

Like the BTM, the Ultra has the familiar "Rate" ****, and in addition, it has a "Start" ****, to adjust at what psi boost retard begins. With the BTM, boost retard always starts at 0 psi, whether you need it or not. The Ultra's "Start" **** lets you choose at what psi you want the boost retard to begin.

The Ultra also has an adjustable midrange retard feature, activated when the engine is under load.

It's widely known that engines ping easiest at the torque peak, because that's when the highest cylinder pressures are created. The midrange retard lets you take out up to eight degrees of timing by 3500 RPM, then it puts it back in by 5000 RPM. Re-advance after torque peak is a common technique experienced tuners use with standalones.

Philo was running our unit with his JRSC, which was notorious for its "tip in" detonaton. I believe he may have been experiencing pre-ignition, caused by a lean mixture. Once pre-ignition starts, no timing controller can stop it. By definition, pre-ignition means that the mixture is ignited prior to the spark event, due to an overheated combustion chamber. Retarding the timing does no good, since the mixture is already lit. Detonation occurs after the spark event, so retarding the timing is able to control it.

Hondata

If the ECU you are using is a P30 or P72, then it has a knock sensor board. The S100 and S200 use the stock factory knock retard if you are using these ECUs.

If you are using the latest version of Hondalogger http://www.hondata.com/downloads/hondalogger.exe with one of these ECUs you can datalog the knock retard.

We have seen in several instances of boosted cars, excessive knock retard and loss of power. This can sometimes be attributed to forged pistons rattling in the bore.

The knock sensor can be switched off if needed.

turbo Si

......I like it when people of the companies of the parts we discuss get on here. It brings a sense of undoubtful knowledge to this place !