Best Value Head Work
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From: NotCal
Re: valve seat machines(EFIGUY) (Curtis Boggs)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Curtis Boggs »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Have you bought the custom cutter design programe from Serdi??????
$600 for a programe so you can design the cutter on your computer instead of paying Serdi $100 every time you order a custom cutter, .. just so THEY can enter it in the soft ware.
If they want to sell me cutters, .. they should offer the software free or at a discount.
Curtis</TD></TR></TABLE>
Much agreed on that one.......haven't bought it yet......I have a pretty big selection of cutters, so I try to avoid spending money on custome ones until I really have to!
Don't get me wrong.......I love my VGS 20, but afterseeing the serdi in action, I really liked it!
$600 for a programe so you can design the cutter on your computer instead of paying Serdi $100 every time you order a custom cutter, .. just so THEY can enter it in the soft ware.
If they want to sell me cutters, .. they should offer the software free or at a discount.
Curtis</TD></TR></TABLE>
Much agreed on that one.......haven't bought it yet......I have a pretty big selection of cutters, so I try to avoid spending money on custome ones until I really have to!
Don't get me wrong.......I love my VGS 20, but afterseeing the serdi in action, I really liked it!
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From: Hamilton, NJ, USA
Re: Best Value Head Work (Curtis Boggs)
I wouldn't say I am sacraficing performance for looks completly because the head ran really good regardless of what the flow bench said and I am sure you can agree not everything that flows well runs well, how it looks inside Does matter especially when your dealing with a public that has a expectation of how your work should look so I attempt to do both make it look preety and make it fly because your street guy is not going to really car that you spent 2 hours putting trenches in his head to pick up that last 6cfm which he would never take advantage of anyway he's thinking you just ruined his heads no matter what you say you can't make him understand why you did so-try to understand the psyhcology of your customer. I to, have done countless heads that needed to be welded, epoxyed, raising roofs and re-shaping short turns that have set records in Pro Mod, Pro street, and others but I have never had a head that someone wouldn't say damn that head is sexy people have to feel good about what there buying no matter the level of modification and I have to feel good giving it to my customer, so I guess I will agree to disagree with you on this point I don't think my way is absolutly better infact there may be people who have forgot more than I know but it's my way and has worked for me.
I'll definitly be at E-town I am going there Fri. afternoon to hang out, and will be there the rest of the weekend, you can usually find me around the Bullish/Street Glow camp it would be real cool to meet in person and while were on the subject I can't wait till the weekend I think records are gonna fall and I forcast the first 6:70 in import racing and Bullish will be the ones to do it!
hey curtis I was going to give you my cell number but you disabled your IM feature so if you call me I'll give it to you.
I'll definitly be at E-town I am going there Fri. afternoon to hang out, and will be there the rest of the weekend, you can usually find me around the Bullish/Street Glow camp it would be real cool to meet in person and while were on the subject I can't wait till the weekend I think records are gonna fall and I forcast the first 6:70 in import racing and Bullish will be the ones to do it!
hey curtis I was going to give you my cell number but you disabled your IM feature so if you call me I'll give it to you.
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From: Charlotte, NC, USA
Re: Best Value Head Work (HEAD)
I would agree on this If we was racing flowbenches thatwould be one thing
If ya want a big flownumber that easy is it gona run hell no.
I also agree on looks very important. IM doing a 7m head for some folks
Il post close up pics whenim done.
If ya want a big flownumber that easy is it gona run hell no.
I also agree on looks very important. IM doing a 7m head for some folks
Il post close up pics whenim done.
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From: Lorton, VA, usa
Re: Best Value Head Work (HEAD)
Dave,
I think maybe I didn't say what I ment properly, .. .. wasn't pickin on what you said and I agree, ... the work should look as good as it runs.
What I ment was I place more importance on producing power then I do looks.
I always finish my work too, .. .. but I think the ports polished with polishing compound so they look like chrome is a BIG waist of time and hurts power. That's what I was ranting about.
Like a magazine article that went on and on about how the intake and exhaust ports where polished to a mirror finish, .. .. I just had to laugh cause they didn't say anything about how much power it made.
It's true we don't race flow benches, .. .. but what we find with the flow bench directly corrilates to the dyno.
I think this is pointing out a difference in the type of work I'm used to, .. or maybe the type of customer. They ONLY care about power and understand part of the process. Like these 1600 heads, .. the final step in building them is to spend a day or two going on & off the flow bench.
They are SO sensitive that one tiny little grind around the seat, .. under the seat and around the short turn can make a great port or a crappy port. I've found that if I go back and finish sand after the grinding I'll loose 1/2 the gains cause the head likes those rough edges.
Some of the chevy comp stuff, .. and the Yamaha R1 road race stuff, .. the B16 all motor head, . .. all the same way. So I'm used to a realy good race head having little grind marks in it that are not finished, .. .. it shows that somebody didn't just port it and flow it, .. but took the time to go back and tune each port.
Dave, .. your Bullish guys droppin' a 6:70, .. .. I'd love to see that. Pro stock with turbos, .. now THAT is cool. Right now, .. the little lady dropped a bomb, .. we own a few retail stores and just opened another, .. I may have to stay here to help her so I'm not sure I'll make Englishtown, ..
but if I do I'll stop by and look for ya.
Curtis
I think maybe I didn't say what I ment properly, .. .. wasn't pickin on what you said and I agree, ... the work should look as good as it runs.
What I ment was I place more importance on producing power then I do looks.
I always finish my work too, .. .. but I think the ports polished with polishing compound so they look like chrome is a BIG waist of time and hurts power. That's what I was ranting about.
Like a magazine article that went on and on about how the intake and exhaust ports where polished to a mirror finish, .. .. I just had to laugh cause they didn't say anything about how much power it made.
It's true we don't race flow benches, .. .. but what we find with the flow bench directly corrilates to the dyno.
I think this is pointing out a difference in the type of work I'm used to, .. or maybe the type of customer. They ONLY care about power and understand part of the process. Like these 1600 heads, .. the final step in building them is to spend a day or two going on & off the flow bench.
They are SO sensitive that one tiny little grind around the seat, .. under the seat and around the short turn can make a great port or a crappy port. I've found that if I go back and finish sand after the grinding I'll loose 1/2 the gains cause the head likes those rough edges.
Some of the chevy comp stuff, .. and the Yamaha R1 road race stuff, .. the B16 all motor head, . .. all the same way. So I'm used to a realy good race head having little grind marks in it that are not finished, .. .. it shows that somebody didn't just port it and flow it, .. but took the time to go back and tune each port.
Dave, .. your Bullish guys droppin' a 6:70, .. .. I'd love to see that. Pro stock with turbos, .. now THAT is cool. Right now, .. the little lady dropped a bomb, .. we own a few retail stores and just opened another, .. I may have to stay here to help her so I'm not sure I'll make Englishtown, ..
but if I do I'll stop by and look for ya.
Curtis
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From: Hamilton, NJ, USA
Re: Best Value Head Work (Curtis Boggs)
I thought I took it the way it was ment I know you mean no harm problem is you can't hear me saying it I wasn't mad or anything just explaining myself.
I don't think you were on here when we had a discussion about the polished ports I couldn't agree with you more, talk about taking the time to completly ruin a head is the way I see it I guess those head porters forgot that fuel goes through the port too! I seen that for the first time on Sav Leone's race head from a couple of years ago the head looked great - if it were to be hung on my wall, they used to do that in the 60's on the cast iron stuff, when i worked at Pat Musi's one of the guys I worked with told me about a set of heads he did for Smokey Yunick that he polished up with rooge, and that was 1967 or 68 and it didn't work then and these guys think there re-inventing the wheel with that crap now!
Yea, as I said you have to look at the psychology of your kind of customer, like some of Bullish's stuff isn't very pretty, don't get me wrong it's polished and straight but sometimes I won't go out of my way to make it look really pretty because I don't have to, it won't make it run better and I know they are the only one's who are going to see it and i have already proven myself, but if I were to send that same head to a supra guy who doesn't know anything he would probably throw it through my window, I think you know what I mean.
speaking of Bullish, yea chances are good to break into the 6:70's we've gotten damn close at the last race going 6:83@204, but have been plagued with traction issues and fuel pump issues. the first problem was solved by taking power out of the car so it would actually hook or not shake the tires after taking power out the car went instantly faster ig georges 683 pass so hopefully this will help at this race plus it's E-town really good track, let me know if you make it. and good luck with the new store.
I don't think you were on here when we had a discussion about the polished ports I couldn't agree with you more, talk about taking the time to completly ruin a head is the way I see it I guess those head porters forgot that fuel goes through the port too! I seen that for the first time on Sav Leone's race head from a couple of years ago the head looked great - if it were to be hung on my wall, they used to do that in the 60's on the cast iron stuff, when i worked at Pat Musi's one of the guys I worked with told me about a set of heads he did for Smokey Yunick that he polished up with rooge, and that was 1967 or 68 and it didn't work then and these guys think there re-inventing the wheel with that crap now!
Yea, as I said you have to look at the psychology of your kind of customer, like some of Bullish's stuff isn't very pretty, don't get me wrong it's polished and straight but sometimes I won't go out of my way to make it look really pretty because I don't have to, it won't make it run better and I know they are the only one's who are going to see it and i have already proven myself, but if I were to send that same head to a supra guy who doesn't know anything he would probably throw it through my window, I think you know what I mean.
speaking of Bullish, yea chances are good to break into the 6:70's we've gotten damn close at the last race going 6:83@204, but have been plagued with traction issues and fuel pump issues. the first problem was solved by taking power out of the car so it would actually hook or not shake the tires after taking power out the car went instantly faster ig georges 683 pass so hopefully this will help at this race plus it's E-town really good track, let me know if you make it. and good luck with the new store.
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From: Lorton, VA, usa
Re: Best Value Head Work (HEAD)
Dave,
Well, it doesn't look like I get to go to Englishtown, ..
Have to stay here and work, .. .. But an engine builder I work closely with is going to stop by the Bullish pit to look you up on Saturday. Jim Justice, .. a good guy, .. really knows his stuff.
>you have to look at the psychology of your kind of customer< yes, .. you are soooo right.
Have a great week end, .. and good luck on that 6:70's run!
Curtis
Well, it doesn't look like I get to go to Englishtown, ..
Have to stay here and work, .. .. But an engine builder I work closely with is going to stop by the Bullish pit to look you up on Saturday. Jim Justice, .. a good guy, .. really knows his stuff.
>you have to look at the psychology of your kind of customer< yes, .. you are soooo right.
Have a great week end, .. and good luck on that 6:70's run!
Curtis
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From: NotCal
Re: Best Value Head Work (Curtis Boggs)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Curtis Boggs »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dave,
Regarding the valve guide, .. that's one for the flow bench, .. some heads like the guide taken out, .. others benefit from putting a trailing edge on it to shape much like an airplane wing.
With the wing shape the idea is to tuck the air back together behind the guide after it has gone around the guide. It's the turbulence on the back side of the flow that you're trying to fix. So the "knife edge" faces away from the flow and the rounded edge faces into the flow.
But every head is different, .. so try it on the flow bench.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Dave,
Your post kind of piqued my intrest, so I took out a B16A head and gave it a try.....I basically flattened out the guide and blened the back of it into the port wall in a bullit shape like you described.........aaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnd????????
(drumroll please).................
The port lost 15cfm and it killed the port velocity........I mean KILLED it, down around 115 ft/sec in the fastest part of the port, and under 100 everywhere else!
Now I'm gonna replace that guide and try some different strategies and find out if that was really the problem or what.
Just thought it was an interesting point so I wanted to see what happened.........now ya know.........at least on one type of head!
It is interesting to note, however, that this only happened on the INTAKE port........the exhaust port was quite happy, and picked up about 40 CFM with similar mods! Funny, huh?
-Ben
Regarding the valve guide, .. that's one for the flow bench, .. some heads like the guide taken out, .. others benefit from putting a trailing edge on it to shape much like an airplane wing.
With the wing shape the idea is to tuck the air back together behind the guide after it has gone around the guide. It's the turbulence on the back side of the flow that you're trying to fix. So the "knife edge" faces away from the flow and the rounded edge faces into the flow.
But every head is different, .. so try it on the flow bench.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Dave,
Your post kind of piqued my intrest, so I took out a B16A head and gave it a try.....I basically flattened out the guide and blened the back of it into the port wall in a bullit shape like you described.........aaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnd????????
(drumroll please).................
The port lost 15cfm and it killed the port velocity........I mean KILLED it, down around 115 ft/sec in the fastest part of the port, and under 100 everywhere else!
Now I'm gonna replace that guide and try some different strategies and find out if that was really the problem or what.
Just thought it was an interesting point so I wanted to see what happened.........now ya know.........at least on one type of head!
It is interesting to note, however, that this only happened on the INTAKE port........the exhaust port was quite happy, and picked up about 40 CFM with similar mods! Funny, huh?
-Ben
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Lorton, VA, usa
Re: Best Value Head Work (EFIGUY)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EFIGUY »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Dave,
Your post kind of piqued my intrest, so I took out a B16A head and gave it a try.....I basically flattened out the guide and blened the back of it into the port wall in a bullit shape like you described.........aaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnd????????
(drumroll please).................
The port lost 15cfm and it killed the port velocity........I mean KILLED it, down around 115 ft/sec in the fastest part of the port, and under 100 everywhere else!
It is interesting to note, however, that this only happened on the INTAKE port........the exhaust port was quite happy, and picked up about 40 CFM with similar mods! Funny, huh?
-Ben</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ben,
before you put a new guide in that port, .. try making the guide and the guide boss in the port just flat, .. blended into the roof of the port and the back of the valve bowl like it was never there. Also if you do this you need to try to make the area and cross section starting at the crown of the short turn out towards the port opening as even as possable, .. .. you may find a different result.
Now one key is to try to remove the guide but don't raise the port roof, .. ..
I'll try to get a digital photo here in the next few days.
Interesting about the exhaust port liking it, .. ... .. 40 cfm is a bunch
I tried calling you at the shop, but you where tied up with a customer.
Curtis
Dave,
Your post kind of piqued my intrest, so I took out a B16A head and gave it a try.....I basically flattened out the guide and blened the back of it into the port wall in a bullit shape like you described.........aaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnd????????
(drumroll please).................
The port lost 15cfm and it killed the port velocity........I mean KILLED it, down around 115 ft/sec in the fastest part of the port, and under 100 everywhere else!
It is interesting to note, however, that this only happened on the INTAKE port........the exhaust port was quite happy, and picked up about 40 CFM with similar mods! Funny, huh?
-Ben</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ben,
before you put a new guide in that port, .. try making the guide and the guide boss in the port just flat, .. blended into the roof of the port and the back of the valve bowl like it was never there. Also if you do this you need to try to make the area and cross section starting at the crown of the short turn out towards the port opening as even as possable, .. .. you may find a different result.
Now one key is to try to remove the guide but don't raise the port roof, .. ..
I'll try to get a digital photo here in the next few days.
Interesting about the exhaust port liking it, .. ... .. 40 cfm is a bunch
I tried calling you at the shop, but you where tied up with a customer.
Curtis
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From: NotCal
I'll check it out and let you know what happens........
For those of you not in on whats going on........I just got off the phone with Curtis, and dammit, now I'm going back to the shop , cause I can't wait till monday to try some stuff.....stupid Horsepower disease! lol
For those of you not in on whats going on........I just got off the phone with Curtis, and dammit, now I'm going back to the shop , cause I can't wait till monday to try some stuff.....stupid Horsepower disease! lol
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From: Charlotte, NC, USA
Ur not gona gain 40 CFM by taking a guide out
Sounds like yur having issues with yur Bench put a test pipe on that port like 5 inches long
what depression you flowing @
what was the flow number @ 450 and 500 lift on the ex port
also how many MPS is that ex port
Sounds like yur having issues with yur Bench put a test pipe on that port like 5 inches long
what depression you flowing @
what was the flow number @ 450 and 500 lift on the ex port
also how many MPS is that ex port
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From: NotCal
Re: (MAX_CFM)
There is almost never an issue with the Superflow SF-600..........operators can screw up, but the bench is pretty reliable......
I didn'd mean that the only mod was taking the guide out.......I fully ported it to compare to my other stuff.....just that this time I did that mod to the guide......
I always test at 28" of water.
The exhaust port is around 198 cfm at .450-.500
I confirmed this on two seperate tests........that is about 42 CFM better than stock.
I spoke to Curtis and he sees just about the same gains and we compared exhaust port numbers and they were nearly identical...............I have a hard time believing tow guys on opposite ends of the country are both having probelms with their flowbench............I'll post flow sheets in a few days.
-Ben
I didn'd mean that the only mod was taking the guide out.......I fully ported it to compare to my other stuff.....just that this time I did that mod to the guide......
I always test at 28" of water.
The exhaust port is around 198 cfm at .450-.500
I confirmed this on two seperate tests........that is about 42 CFM better than stock.
I spoke to Curtis and he sees just about the same gains and we compared exhaust port numbers and they were nearly identical...............I have a hard time believing tow guys on opposite ends of the country are both having probelms with their flowbench............I'll post flow sheets in a few days.
-Ben
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From: Charlotte, NC, USA
Re:
40 cfm is normal for a ported VRS a stock
Im sorry I was like there is no way 40 from guide removal
that s just what is sounded like too me anyways
whats funny is yes its picks up a bunch
but i have ran engines with guid and with out
and they both made same power. funny huh
Flow on the intake side well its all about the VJ
Later
Im sorry I was like there is no way 40 from guide removal
that s just what is sounded like too me anyways
whats funny is yes its picks up a bunch
but i have ran engines with guid and with out
and they both made same power. funny huh
Flow on the intake side well its all about the VJ
Later
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From: NotCal
Re: Re: (MAX_CFM)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MAX_CFM »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">40 cfm is normal for a ported VRS a stock
ImFlow on the intake side well its all about the VJ
Later</TD></TR></TABLE>
Couldn't agree more.............I've played around a lot with multi-angle valve jobs, and specifically how wide each angle is, and where the seat contacts the valve.......lots of improvements in the details!
-Ben
ImFlow on the intake side well its all about the VJ
Later</TD></TR></TABLE>
Couldn't agree more.............I've played around a lot with multi-angle valve jobs, and specifically how wide each angle is, and where the seat contacts the valve.......lots of improvements in the details!
-Ben
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From: Lorton, VA, usa
late night head
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EFIGUY »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'll check it out and let you know what happens........
For those of you not in on whats going on........I just got off the phone with Curtis, and dammit, now I'm going back to the shop , cause I can't wait till monday to try some stuff.....stupid Horsepower disease! lol</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ban,
Sorry about that, makin you go back to the shop, .... .. but over dinner with the little lady, .. all I could talk about was these damn Honda heads and the stuff we talked about, .. .. and here I am at 2:22 in the morning, .. had to stop in to see what was goin on.
I think we got it bad, ... ..
Nice chamber, .. MAX, ..
Curtis
For those of you not in on whats going on........I just got off the phone with Curtis, and dammit, now I'm going back to the shop , cause I can't wait till monday to try some stuff.....stupid Horsepower disease! lol</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ban,
Sorry about that, makin you go back to the shop, .... .. but over dinner with the little lady, .. all I could talk about was these damn Honda heads and the stuff we talked about, .. .. and here I am at 2:22 in the morning, .. had to stop in to see what was goin on.
I think we got it bad, ... ..
Nice chamber, .. MAX, ..
Curtis
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From: NotCal
Re: late night head (Curtis Boggs)
dude, that's hilarius! You're girl must hate me already for planting that seed and ruining her dinner! haha
I never made it back to the shop, but I did knock out another 3200 words in the book, so that kinda makes up for it......
I can't wait to get back to the flowbench and makes some changes........
-ben
Modified by EFIGUY at 11:41 PM 5/2/2003
I never made it back to the shop, but I did knock out another 3200 words in the book, so that kinda makes up for it......
I can't wait to get back to the flowbench and makes some changes........
-ben
Modified by EFIGUY at 11:41 PM 5/2/2003
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From: Lorton, VA, usa
Re: late night head (EFIGUY)
Ben,
Wei (pronounced "way") said you are a demon seed, .. .. and she'll find a way to pay you back for screwing up her dinner, .. I'd be scared if I where you.
But I think she was more pissed that I was messin with an S2000 head at 2:30 in the morning, ..
see, .. having a flow bench at the house can be good for ideas, .. but bad for the home life. ;-)
Glad you got more work done on the book, .. I'm looking forward to reading it, ..
Curtis
Wei (pronounced "way") said you are a demon seed, .. .. and she'll find a way to pay you back for screwing up her dinner, .. I'd be scared if I where you.
But I think she was more pissed that I was messin with an S2000 head at 2:30 in the morning, ..
see, .. having a flow bench at the house can be good for ideas, .. but bad for the home life. ;-)
Glad you got more work done on the book, .. I'm looking forward to reading it, ..
Curtis
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From: NotCal
Re: late night head (Curtis Boggs)
Oh man...the wrath of a woman scorned! Yikes! lol
Send my half-hearted apologies along if you will!
So, what did you find out on the S2K Head?
I got about 50 more hours of writing to do, and the its just organizing photos, and captions, and sidebars and all that jazz........still a lot to do before June 15th! My Deadline is coming at me like freight train on steroids!
-Ben
Send my half-hearted apologies along if you will!
So, what did you find out on the S2K Head?
I got about 50 more hours of writing to do, and the its just organizing photos, and captions, and sidebars and all that jazz........still a lot to do before June 15th! My Deadline is coming at me like freight train on steroids!
-Ben
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 178
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From: Lorton, VA, usa
Re: late night head (EFIGUY)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EFIGUY »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh man...the wrath of a woman scorned! Yikes! lol
Send my half-hearted apologies along if you will!
So, what did you find out on the S2K Head?
I got about 50 more hours of writing to do, and the its just organizing photos, and captions, and sidebars and all that jazz........still a lot to do before June 15th! My Deadline is coming at me like freight train on steroids!
-Ben</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ben,
Well to be honest, .. I blamed it all on you, .. .. .. but Wei said she'll forgive you THIS time. ;-)
I haven't got back to the S2K head yet, .. too many other projects to get done. I don't know why racers wait till the week before a race to get head work done, .. and I've got a huge back log.
Good luck on the book, .. and in case you need it, .. I also have a commercial photography business. http://www.cboggs.com
I'd be glad to help out with your book photos if you need it.
Question, .. I'm finding high lift (.350" & up) flow in the valve bowl, .. by making the back of the bowl deeper down by the back of the guide, .. .. have you had the same results??
Curtis
Send my half-hearted apologies along if you will!
So, what did you find out on the S2K Head?
I got about 50 more hours of writing to do, and the its just organizing photos, and captions, and sidebars and all that jazz........still a lot to do before June 15th! My Deadline is coming at me like freight train on steroids!
-Ben</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ben,
Well to be honest, .. I blamed it all on you, .. .. .. but Wei said she'll forgive you THIS time. ;-)
I haven't got back to the S2K head yet, .. too many other projects to get done. I don't know why racers wait till the week before a race to get head work done, .. and I've got a huge back log.
Good luck on the book, .. and in case you need it, .. I also have a commercial photography business. http://www.cboggs.com
I'd be glad to help out with your book photos if you need it.
Question, .. I'm finding high lift (.350" & up) flow in the valve bowl, .. by making the back of the bowl deeper down by the back of the guide, .. .. have you had the same results??
Curtis
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From: NotCal
Re: late night head (Curtis Boggs)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Curtis Boggs »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Ben,
Well to be honest, .. I blamed it all on you, .. .. .. but Wei said she'll forgive you THIS time. ;-)
You bastard! lol Luckily she seems pretty open minded! haha
I haven't got back to the S2K head yet, .. too many other projects to get done. I don't know why racers wait till the week before a race to get head work done, .. and I've got a huge back log.
HAHA..........I thought only my customer were like that!
Good luck on the book, .. and in case you need it, .. I also have a commercial photography business. http://www.cboggs.com
I'd be glad to help out with your book photos if you need it.
OOOhhh, be careful what you offer, i'm getting pretty far behind, and I'm gonna be pulling every string, every favor and using every resource I can to try and make this thing come together in the next 40 days or so!
Question, .. I'm finding high lift (.350" & up) flow in the valve bowl, .. by making the back of the bowl deeper down by the back of the guide, .. .. have you had the same results??
Curtis</TD></TR></TABLE>
Absolutely..........that's where I've been spending most of my time........move that wall back as much as you dare, then get it blended into the bottom angle of your seat............my suspicion is that it mostly has to do with adding the volume to that section of the port that is helping the high lift stuff.....then I just use the valve job tricks to get some low and mid-lift numbers
-Ben
Ben,
Well to be honest, .. I blamed it all on you, .. .. .. but Wei said she'll forgive you THIS time. ;-)
You bastard! lol
Luckily she seems pretty open minded! haha I haven't got back to the S2K head yet, .. too many other projects to get done. I don't know why racers wait till the week before a race to get head work done, .. and I've got a huge back log.
HAHA..........I thought only my customer were like that!
Good luck on the book, .. and in case you need it, .. I also have a commercial photography business. http://www.cboggs.com
I'd be glad to help out with your book photos if you need it.
OOOhhh, be careful what you offer, i'm getting pretty far behind, and I'm gonna be pulling every string, every favor and using every resource I can to try and make this thing come together in the next 40 days or so!
Question, .. I'm finding high lift (.350" & up) flow in the valve bowl, .. by making the back of the bowl deeper down by the back of the guide, .. .. have you had the same results??
Curtis</TD></TR></TABLE>
Absolutely..........that's where I've been spending most of my time........move that wall back as much as you dare, then get it blended into the bottom angle of your seat............my suspicion is that it mostly has to do with adding the volume to that section of the port that is helping the high lift stuff.....then I just use the valve job tricks to get some low and mid-lift numbers
-Ben
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
From: Lorton, VA, usa
Re: late night head (EFIGUY)
Ben,
That's no empty offer on the photography, .. I have studio built into my home, .. and have digital so anything can be done fairly fast. My mom's side of the family where the artists and worked at ad agencys, .. my uncles were the racers.
As for the valve bowl thing, .. this leads me back to our other discussion about taking the guide out and making the roof flat. The guide removal along with the deeper bowl should net some significant results. I have a junker head that I'm going to do some more tests on, .. before I cut up a good S2K head.
I think there may be more to this then volume. Think about the area available to flow. This may have more to do with how the flow around the valve changes shape as lift in increased.
Years ago I cut a head open to expose the intake port but not so much as to cut the port in half.
I epoxied a plexi plate on it, put a valve in it, pulled air through it and used a small tube to deliver smoke from a smoke machine. (rock band days)
You'd be surprized what the air does as it flows around the valve and into the port.
The the air tends to form a cone around the back or down stream side of the valve.
Now think about a small block Chevy race head, .. deep valve bowl that comes strait from the bottom angle down deep, then makes a fairly sharp turn to the very flat roof. The bowl is very much in line with the center line of the valve stem to promote high lift flow.
The Honda, .. has a long sweeping bend to the valve bowl that is designed for low and mid lift flow and is not in line with the valve center line. At high lift we're asking the air to go around the valve and seat at an angle making the flow uneven, .. causing a flow loss.
Does this make sense, .. or have I been blowing too much smoke
Curtis
That's no empty offer on the photography, .. I have studio built into my home, .. and have digital so anything can be done fairly fast. My mom's side of the family where the artists and worked at ad agencys, .. my uncles were the racers.
As for the valve bowl thing, .. this leads me back to our other discussion about taking the guide out and making the roof flat. The guide removal along with the deeper bowl should net some significant results. I have a junker head that I'm going to do some more tests on, .. before I cut up a good S2K head.
I think there may be more to this then volume. Think about the area available to flow. This may have more to do with how the flow around the valve changes shape as lift in increased.
Years ago I cut a head open to expose the intake port but not so much as to cut the port in half.
I epoxied a plexi plate on it, put a valve in it, pulled air through it and used a small tube to deliver smoke from a smoke machine. (rock band days)
You'd be surprized what the air does as it flows around the valve and into the port.
The the air tends to form a cone around the back or down stream side of the valve.
Now think about a small block Chevy race head, .. deep valve bowl that comes strait from the bottom angle down deep, then makes a fairly sharp turn to the very flat roof. The bowl is very much in line with the center line of the valve stem to promote high lift flow.
The Honda, .. has a long sweeping bend to the valve bowl that is designed for low and mid lift flow and is not in line with the valve center line. At high lift we're asking the air to go around the valve and seat at an angle making the flow uneven, .. causing a flow loss.
Does this make sense, .. or have I been blowing too much smoke
Curtis