The Official EF Discussion Thread
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,297
Likes: 0
From: I love the east coast, OH
ya agreed. But i live less than an hour away from "mista bone" who is suposidly the Honda tranny god. I talked to him a few weeks back and he was saying that he has installed a few with no complaints.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,768
Likes: 0
From: gold rust on my mugen rims
Re: (B16CRXT)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B16CRXT »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Got my type r tranny with less than 10K miles on it for $1000.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I was about to invest b20 type R tranny with LSD for $1500 but I ended up just getting the motor because I did not want to do the conversion.
I was about to invest b20 type R tranny with LSD for $1500 but I ended up just getting the motor because I did not want to do the conversion.
Re: (vega_box)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vega_box »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
are the results the same if you engage vtec earlier....say 3700??
Is it an increase in more power and then fall on it face later or will the power sustain itself??
Reason I ask is people say LS has long gear ration and when using on a b16 or any vtec engagement engine it feels "torqueless". So lets say we use a vtec controller and engage it earlier...better results??</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok, if you engage VTEC earlier, you have the opposite result. The non-VTEC lobe is still making great power, and you switch to the VTEC lobe before it is making as much power as the non-VTEC profile. So, VTEC engages, and the engine feels like it bogs down. Several RPMs later, once the VTEC profile of the cam is making good enough power, you will feel the motor really start to pull. This is a sign that the VTEC point is just too low. To find the optimum point to engage VTEC, you need a dyno graph to compare non-VTEC vs. VTEC graphs.
This is one reason why people who put a Skunk2/Blox intake manifold on a stock GSR motor and ECU just bash it. It eliminates the secondary butterflies, which help the motor create a smoother powerband. When they are eliminated, VTEC still engages at the stock 4400 rpms, but the motor wants VTEC upwards at 5.5k or so since it doesnt have those secondary butterflies.
Ok, so about LS transmissions on B16's. B16's really need to rev to make their power. When you pair a low-torque, high-revving motor like the B16 to a transmission that is designed for a torquey-er, lower-revving motor like the B18A/B, you drop further in the RPM range when you shift. (This is what they mean by "taller" or "longer" gears.) If you shift a B16 tranny at 8k, you'll typically drop to what, 5.5k or 6k? (I'm not sure.. It's been a while since I've driven a car with a b16 tranny). Where as an LS transmission will drop you even farther down, typically to the point where a B16 is making embarrassingly low power numbers, which causes a bit of a "bog" or that feeling of being "torqueless".
I was never saying that an LS transmission will perform better than a B16 (unless of course you want to consider MPG performance). I was simply stating that everyone bags on LS transmissions when they are not THAT bad if you are making a good amount of power. That turbo video I posted earlier had a guy running 10.9's on an LS transmission. Could he run faster if he had a Type-R or B16 tranny? Sure, but I'd have to say that 10.9's are pretty freakin' decent. However, a lot of people in the Honda scene are running 15-year-old stock B16A's that have been beat to hell since day one, and an LS transmission just adds to the misery on those setups.
are the results the same if you engage vtec earlier....say 3700??
Is it an increase in more power and then fall on it face later or will the power sustain itself??
Reason I ask is people say LS has long gear ration and when using on a b16 or any vtec engagement engine it feels "torqueless". So lets say we use a vtec controller and engage it earlier...better results??</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok, if you engage VTEC earlier, you have the opposite result. The non-VTEC lobe is still making great power, and you switch to the VTEC lobe before it is making as much power as the non-VTEC profile. So, VTEC engages, and the engine feels like it bogs down. Several RPMs later, once the VTEC profile of the cam is making good enough power, you will feel the motor really start to pull. This is a sign that the VTEC point is just too low. To find the optimum point to engage VTEC, you need a dyno graph to compare non-VTEC vs. VTEC graphs.
This is one reason why people who put a Skunk2/Blox intake manifold on a stock GSR motor and ECU just bash it. It eliminates the secondary butterflies, which help the motor create a smoother powerband. When they are eliminated, VTEC still engages at the stock 4400 rpms, but the motor wants VTEC upwards at 5.5k or so since it doesnt have those secondary butterflies.
Ok, so about LS transmissions on B16's. B16's really need to rev to make their power. When you pair a low-torque, high-revving motor like the B16 to a transmission that is designed for a torquey-er, lower-revving motor like the B18A/B, you drop further in the RPM range when you shift. (This is what they mean by "taller" or "longer" gears.) If you shift a B16 tranny at 8k, you'll typically drop to what, 5.5k or 6k? (I'm not sure.. It's been a while since I've driven a car with a b16 tranny). Where as an LS transmission will drop you even farther down, typically to the point where a B16 is making embarrassingly low power numbers, which causes a bit of a "bog" or that feeling of being "torqueless".
I was never saying that an LS transmission will perform better than a B16 (unless of course you want to consider MPG performance). I was simply stating that everyone bags on LS transmissions when they are not THAT bad if you are making a good amount of power. That turbo video I posted earlier had a guy running 10.9's on an LS transmission. Could he run faster if he had a Type-R or B16 tranny? Sure, but I'd have to say that 10.9's are pretty freakin' decent. However, a lot of people in the Honda scene are running 15-year-old stock B16A's that have been beat to hell since day one, and an LS transmission just adds to the misery on those setups.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,768
Likes: 0
From: gold rust on my mugen rims
Re: (Mr_CRX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr_CRX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Ok, if you engage VTEC earlier, you have the opposite result. The non-VTEC lobe is still making great power, and you switch to the VTEC lobe before it is making as much power as the non-VTEC profile. So, VTEC engages, and the engine feels like it bogs down. Several RPMs later, once the VTEC profile of the cam is making good enough power, you will feel the motor really start to pull. This is a sign that the VTEC point is just too low. To find the optimum point to engage VTEC, you need a dyno graph to compare non-VTEC vs. VTEC graphs.
This is one reason why people who put a Skunk2/Blox intake manifold on a stock GSR motor and ECU just bash it. It eliminates the secondary butterflies, which help the motor create a smoother powerband. When they are eliminated, VTEC still engages at the stock 4400 rpms, but the motor wants VTEC upwards at 5.5k or so since it doesnt have those secondary butterflies.
Ok, so about LS transmissions on B16's. B16's really need to rev to make their power. When you pair a low-torque, high-revving motor like the B16 to a transmission that is designed for a torquey-er, lower-revving motor like the B18A/B, you drop further in the RPM range when you shift. (This is what they mean by "taller" or "longer" gears.) If you shift a B16 tranny at 8k, you'll typically drop to what, 5.5k or 6k? (I'm not sure.. It's been a while since I've driven a car with a b16 tranny). Where as an LS transmission will drop you even farther down, typically to the point where a B16 is making embarrassingly low power numbers, which causes a bit of a "bog" or that feeling of being "torqueless".
I was never saying that an LS transmission will perform better than a B16 (unless of course you want to consider MPG performance). I was simply stating that everyone bags on LS transmissions when they are not THAT bad if you are making a good amount of power. That turbo video I posted earlier had a guy running 10.9's on an LS transmission. Could he run faster if he had a Type-R or B16 tranny? Sure, but I'd have to say that 10.9's are pretty freakin' decent. However, a lot of people in the Honda scene are running 15-year-old stock B16A's that have been beat to hell since day one, and an LS transmission just adds to the misery on those setups.</TD></TR></TABLE>
good info
If I wasn't in a hurry to get the motor in I would invest in a full rebuild of both the motor and tranny but I need to find out what the lay over is first.
Ok, if you engage VTEC earlier, you have the opposite result. The non-VTEC lobe is still making great power, and you switch to the VTEC lobe before it is making as much power as the non-VTEC profile. So, VTEC engages, and the engine feels like it bogs down. Several RPMs later, once the VTEC profile of the cam is making good enough power, you will feel the motor really start to pull. This is a sign that the VTEC point is just too low. To find the optimum point to engage VTEC, you need a dyno graph to compare non-VTEC vs. VTEC graphs.
This is one reason why people who put a Skunk2/Blox intake manifold on a stock GSR motor and ECU just bash it. It eliminates the secondary butterflies, which help the motor create a smoother powerband. When they are eliminated, VTEC still engages at the stock 4400 rpms, but the motor wants VTEC upwards at 5.5k or so since it doesnt have those secondary butterflies.
Ok, so about LS transmissions on B16's. B16's really need to rev to make their power. When you pair a low-torque, high-revving motor like the B16 to a transmission that is designed for a torquey-er, lower-revving motor like the B18A/B, you drop further in the RPM range when you shift. (This is what they mean by "taller" or "longer" gears.) If you shift a B16 tranny at 8k, you'll typically drop to what, 5.5k or 6k? (I'm not sure.. It's been a while since I've driven a car with a b16 tranny). Where as an LS transmission will drop you even farther down, typically to the point where a B16 is making embarrassingly low power numbers, which causes a bit of a "bog" or that feeling of being "torqueless".
I was never saying that an LS transmission will perform better than a B16 (unless of course you want to consider MPG performance). I was simply stating that everyone bags on LS transmissions when they are not THAT bad if you are making a good amount of power. That turbo video I posted earlier had a guy running 10.9's on an LS transmission. Could he run faster if he had a Type-R or B16 tranny? Sure, but I'd have to say that 10.9's are pretty freakin' decent. However, a lot of people in the Honda scene are running 15-year-old stock B16A's that have been beat to hell since day one, and an LS transmission just adds to the misery on those setups.</TD></TR></TABLE>
good info
If I wasn't in a hurry to get the motor in I would invest in a full rebuild of both the motor and tranny but I need to find out what the lay over is first.
EFSS153
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 15,826
Likes: 1
From: Tornado Alley
Re: (B16CRXT)
Chase can privide the sound effects on what occured here...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xDicktonesx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
alright....
my next built motor is going into a car that in stock trim will have working AC and PS and whatnot. so its a matter of sacrifice. if i am going to sacrifice those power amenities, i am not going to sacrifice them for a ****-ant b16, a 185whp lsv that is old news or even a 200+whp b20 vtec that will feel slow after a week. but i will sacrifice them for a 300+ k24 all motor pump gas set up. or a lightly boosted reliable 400whp k24 boost set up.
and besides, the aftermarket is getting ready to make a full swing toward the K.
also, if you knwo where to look (like heinrich crxEE8) you can build a K24 i-vtec for about what it costs to build a b20vtec these days. maybe a **** hair more because the cams are 700 bucks.
edit: basically, i want to keep up with the technology and make big reliable power so i can run full interior and not feel like a slug. gone are the days of gutting the **** out of a car to make an LSV feel fast.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Chad, hit me up. I know where a few good deals are on swap parts. I've also got a rad idea you might be interested in.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xDicktonesx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
alright....
my next built motor is going into a car that in stock trim will have working AC and PS and whatnot. so its a matter of sacrifice. if i am going to sacrifice those power amenities, i am not going to sacrifice them for a ****-ant b16, a 185whp lsv that is old news or even a 200+whp b20 vtec that will feel slow after a week. but i will sacrifice them for a 300+ k24 all motor pump gas set up. or a lightly boosted reliable 400whp k24 boost set up.
and besides, the aftermarket is getting ready to make a full swing toward the K.
also, if you knwo where to look (like heinrich crxEE8) you can build a K24 i-vtec for about what it costs to build a b20vtec these days. maybe a **** hair more because the cams are 700 bucks.
edit: basically, i want to keep up with the technology and make big reliable power so i can run full interior and not feel like a slug. gone are the days of gutting the **** out of a car to make an LSV feel fast.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Chad, hit me up. I know where a few good deals are on swap parts. I've also got a rad idea you might be interested in.
Re: (vega_box)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vega_box »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
are the results the same if you engage vtec earlier....say 3700??
Is it an increase in more power and then fall on it face later or will the power sustain itself??
Reason I ask is people say LS has long gear ration and when using on a b16 or any vtec engagement engine it feels "torqueless". So lets say we use a vtec controller and engage it earlier...better results??</TD></TR></TABLE>
Go dyno the motor, more area under the curve = more power, now you just bench racing...
are the results the same if you engage vtec earlier....say 3700??
Is it an increase in more power and then fall on it face later or will the power sustain itself??
Reason I ask is people say LS has long gear ration and when using on a b16 or any vtec engagement engine it feels "torqueless". So lets say we use a vtec controller and engage it earlier...better results??</TD></TR></TABLE>
Go dyno the motor, more area under the curve = more power, now you just bench racing...
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,562
Likes: 0
From: Madison, WI, USA
Re: (jdm_AE86)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdm_AE86 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Theres not much lip options for the stock bumper.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
A point of interest for those with 90-91 usdm hatch front bumpers. I was on versusmotorsports.com yesterday, and they list a lip for the 90-91 usdm front. so, i click on it and it shows a pic of a usdm crx front (or jdm si?). Anyway, I emailed them and supposedly chargespeed makes a lip that fits the 90-91...hum....anybody confirm this? i may have to make a call
here's the link: http://www.versusmotorsport.co...11flk
time to start saving my milk money
Theres not much lip options for the stock bumper.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
A point of interest for those with 90-91 usdm hatch front bumpers. I was on versusmotorsports.com yesterday, and they list a lip for the 90-91 usdm front. so, i click on it and it shows a pic of a usdm crx front (or jdm si?). Anyway, I emailed them and supposedly chargespeed makes a lip that fits the 90-91...hum....anybody confirm this? i may have to make a call
here's the link: http://www.versusmotorsport.co...11flk
time to start saving my milk money
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,768
Likes: 0
From: gold rust on my mugen rims
Re: (civicandy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicandy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
A point of interest for those with 90-91 usdm hatch front bumpers. I was on versusmotorsports.com yesterday, and they list a lip for the 90-91 usdm front. so, i click on it and it shows a pic of a usdm crx front (or jdm si?). Anyway, I emailed them and supposedly chargespeed makes a lip that fits the 90-91...hum....anybody confirm this? i may have to make a call
here's the link: http://www.versusmotorsport.co...11flk
time to start saving my milk money</TD></TR></TABLE>
nah not for the Civic only for the CR-X
A point of interest for those with 90-91 usdm hatch front bumpers. I was on versusmotorsports.com yesterday, and they list a lip for the 90-91 usdm front. so, i click on it and it shows a pic of a usdm crx front (or jdm si?). Anyway, I emailed them and supposedly chargespeed makes a lip that fits the 90-91...hum....anybody confirm this? i may have to make a call
here's the link: http://www.versusmotorsport.co...11flk
time to start saving my milk money</TD></TR></TABLE>
nah not for the Civic only for the CR-X
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,562
Likes: 0
From: Madison, WI, USA
Re: (vega_box)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vega_box »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
nah not for the Civic only for the CR-X</TD></TR></TABLE>
perhaps...but not according to what they said on an email to me. unless they don't know there is a difference.
nah not for the Civic only for the CR-X</TD></TR></TABLE>
perhaps...but not according to what they said on an email to me. unless they don't know there is a difference.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,768
Likes: 0
From: gold rust on my mugen rims
Re: (civicandy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicandy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
perhaps...but not according to what they said on an email to me. unless they don't know there is a difference. </TD></TR></TABLE>
you should read some of the emails I get from versus when I use to order stuff
they might just be confused like always. But in fact that Chargespeed has developed one that would be a first because our 90-91 style bumper was none existent in Japan but was available in Europe.
EF Factiod: Did you know that there was 3 different HONDA OEM style bumper developed for the 88-91 CIVIC.
perhaps...but not according to what they said on an email to me. unless they don't know there is a difference. </TD></TR></TABLE>
you should read some of the emails I get from versus when I use to order stuff
they might just be confused like always. But in fact that Chargespeed has developed one that would be a first because our 90-91 style bumper was none existent in Japan but was available in Europe.
EF Factiod: Did you know that there was 3 different HONDA OEM style bumper developed for the 88-91 CIVIC.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,768
Likes: 0
From: gold rust on my mugen rims
Re: (jdm_AE86)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdm_AE86 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">chargespeed, or another company, j's racing?? makes a lip for the 88-89's but not the 90-91s as vega box said that bumper is non existant to any jdm companies.</TD></TR></TABLE>
if you wanted a lip for your car I would suggest looking in the UK and Germany. they might have made some that no one knows about yet
if you wanted a lip for your car I would suggest looking in the UK and Germany. they might have made some that no one knows about yet
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,562
Likes: 0
From: Madison, WI, USA
Re: (vega_box)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vega_box »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
EF Factiod: Did you know that there was 3 different HONDA OEM style bumper developed for the 88-91 CIVIC. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm not holding my breath on this. Anyway, elborate on the 3 bumper styles. I know the hatch ones are different in 88 than 89-91. Hurry up before Chad gets in here and finds us talking about bumpers
EF Factiod: Did you know that there was 3 different HONDA OEM style bumper developed for the 88-91 CIVIC.
</TD></TR></TABLE>I'm not holding my breath on this. Anyway, elborate on the 3 bumper styles. I know the hatch ones are different in 88 than 89-91. Hurry up before Chad gets in here and finds us talking about bumpers
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,768
Likes: 0
From: gold rust on my mugen rims
Re: (civicandy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicandy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm not holding my breath on this. Anyway, elborate on the 3 bumper styles. I know the hatch ones are different in 88 than 89-91. Hurry up before Chad gets in here and finds us talking about bumpers </TD></TR></TABLE>
I correct myself...there is <FONT SIZE="50">4</FONT> different styles
SiR style bumper (used in Japan and Europe, Germany, Phillipines, Malisia, Holland..basically everyone but the US )
comes on 90-91 EE9, EF9 and EF1
"ZC" or 88-89 Style bumper (used everywhere including the US)
comes on ED9, EF2, EF3
90-91 Style (used in the US only I believe)
Damnit I'm having a hard time finding a picture of the ED6 EDM bumper but its basically the same as the 90-91 bumper but it has a indent in the moulding like the 88-89 bumper.
I'm not holding my breath on this. Anyway, elborate on the 3 bumper styles. I know the hatch ones are different in 88 than 89-91. Hurry up before Chad gets in here and finds us talking about bumpers
</TD></TR></TABLE>I correct myself...there is <FONT SIZE="50">4</FONT> different styles
SiR style bumper (used in Japan and Europe, Germany, Phillipines, Malisia, Holland..basically everyone but the US
)comes on 90-91 EE9, EF9 and EF1
"ZC" or 88-89 Style bumper (used everywhere including the US)
comes on ED9, EF2, EF3
90-91 Style (used in the US only I believe)
Damnit I'm having a hard time finding a picture of the ED6 EDM bumper but its basically the same as the 90-91 bumper but it has a indent in the moulding like the 88-89 bumper.
EFSS153
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 15,826
Likes: 1
From: Tornado Alley
Re: (vega_box)
Yeah, but can you tell me correct torque specs for the head bolts on a b20vtec?
My EF9 bumper has the fog light cut outs and I wish it didn't. I want to trade it for one w/o the cutouts, but it'd cost a ton to trade/ship with someone.
My EF9 bumper has the fog light cut outs and I wish it didn't. I want to trade it for one w/o the cutouts, but it'd cost a ton to trade/ship with someone.
EFSS153
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 15,826
Likes: 1
From: Tornado Alley
Re: (CrxWolf)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CrxWolf »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My fit has vtak</TD></TR></TABLE>
When are you supposed to take delivery of that thing?
When are you supposed to take delivery of that thing?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,562
Likes: 0
From: Madison, WI, USA
Re: (jdm_AE86)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdm_AE86 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yah thats tru, good point. Ever heard of roadracegear.com? im thinkin about gettin their airdam</TD></TR></TABLE>
never have until 5 min. ago. That looks pretty good. I'd like to see more pics of that
never have until 5 min. ago. That looks pretty good. I'd like to see more pics of that
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,768
Likes: 0
From: gold rust on my mugen rims
Re: (-NA-aLL-thE-wAy-)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by -NA-aLL-thE-wAy- »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah, but can you tell me correct torque specs for the head bolts on a b20vtec?
My EF9 bumper has the fog light cut outs and I wish it didn't. I want to trade it for one w/o the cutouts, but it'd cost a ton to trade/ship with someone.</TD></TR></TABLE>
burn in soup with your technical chibber chabber
you can always stuff socks in the holes and paint over them
or cover it with tape and paint over it. There is always a way out of a hole when you have tape and socks
My EF9 bumper has the fog light cut outs and I wish it didn't. I want to trade it for one w/o the cutouts, but it'd cost a ton to trade/ship with someone.</TD></TR></TABLE>
burn in soup with your technical chibber chabber
you can always stuff socks in the holes and paint over them
or cover it with tape and paint over it. There is always a way out of a hole when you have tape and socks