yay another s2k guy on board!

 

AHHHH CRAP.......the damn CAD to US exchange is horrible now or else i would have bought a set.

about a year ago it was almost equal...now a set of these would cost me 600 bones.......i dont think its worth it anymore for me.

 

I am waiting for my Rc's to sell and I will place my order the next day.

 

subscribed

 

me too.

jeff!

 

where in wv are you located?

 

What type of fluid did you use to measure the flow of these injectors?? My friend had a set flow tested and he said they flow like an AVG 880CC injector.. Granted they may have a better pray patterm and be saturated, but for the price shouldn't we be getting what a typical injector Marketed at "1000CC" flows??

 

More importantly, did your friend flow test them himself, or did he have a shop do it? Can we see that sheet? I'm betting these injectors flow what Tony says they do..

 

They were flowed by a guy whos been modifing injectors for many years .. Basically what he said is that, using the standard flow bench test fluid, these injectors flow like a 880CC injector.. While they will flow 1000CC with C16 or other fuels with simular specific gravity, most 1000CC injectors will actually flow 1000CC on the flow bench and closer to 1100-1150 with C16 or simular fuels. So basically what I was asking is don't you think since they flow like an 880CC using standard flow testing procedure that they should be labeled 880CC, not 1000..

 

Not saying they are bad injectors.. Just wondering why he chose to market them as 1000CC when by standard testing procedure they are more like your AVG 880CC injector.

 

Why are you using the word "he", Tony didnt make these Injectors and then label them 1000cc's, do you know what voltage your guy tested them at?

 

regardless of voltage, these injectors flowed the same as 880s under the same conditions. And I said he, because he is the one getting them modified and selling them as 1000CC. I'm pretty sure Paul Yaw is the one modifing them.. I could be wrong, I'm just asking cause I'm hearing all kinds of stuff from more than 1 person about this..

Basically I just want to know if my customer will be paying $500 for a 880CC injector.. If thats the case, I rather have them spend the money on some larger injectors and an injector driver box if needed..

 

These flow 1000cc/min with real fuel. We all run real fuel, not some test fluid in our cars. When you're calculating fuel requirements, you base BSFC off the fuel the engine is running. Why someone would base all their data off an incorrect fluid with a different viscosity from the actual fuel being used is beyond me.

I have full test data from a set of these at 45psi, they flowed 1042.9 cc/min with C16. I have full test data from an RC 1000 at 43.5psi and it flowed 1076.9 cc/min with C16.

So yes, the RC's do flow a little more than these.

We've made 603whp at 82% duty cycle on these injectors on a K series so it's not like they're not capable of making any power.

One of the things you're paying for is a properly matched injector. I have some more data coming, of a set of RC 1000's with a 6 ohm resistor (i'll make these sheets look amazing! lol). Should be up soon.

This is data from a batch of 100 of these injectors. This is flow deviation from injector to injector (every 10th injector was used for this test). The reason you see so much deviation down low is because of slightly different injector dead times from injector to injector. All our injectors are matched in sets based off of both flow and injector dead time. Make note, 2-3ms is where MOST of the life of the injector is, all idle and part throttle. Even with a good batch of current technology injectors, there can easily be a 5-10% difference in flow at low pulsewidths if the injectors are not matched in sets based on dead time. As you can imagine, 5-10% fuel flow difference from injector to injector at idle and part throttle can have a significant affect on how smooth an engine runs and also an affect on how lean you can run the engine.


Here is the deviation data from a set of 4 that is properly matched based on dead time.

 

I also tested these injectors, I planned on keeping my test results to myself and a group of other tuning buddies, but since someone else posted it, i might as well also. This test was done on the same machine at the same flow flow rate. Not comparing flow rates from different machines, at different pressure levels.

I orginally did the test because i asked my injector guy about getting the newer bosch in 1000cc's, but he told me that it wasn't possible, and that the 880's he was selling me was the most you could get out of the new bosch's. So i got a set of t1's bosch 1000's and decided to do a comparison. If anyone doesn't like my test or thinks that i just poured some fluid in a glass, they can go do a test themself, then get a rope.

Calling these injectors 1000's is comparing apples to oranges, The results i had were that tony's 1000's were really 880's on normal injector test fluid, 880'cc being the most you could get out of the new bosch's just like my injector guy had told me. They were identical to the ones he had been selling me. Pics are below, its the one with clear fluid, take the number and multiply it by 4, and that give you the flow rating. I then put c16 in the machine and redid the test. Obviously, its the one with the blue fluid, i had some writing on the paper that i edited out.

While i agree that using c16 is a better way to test these injectors, BUT its not the standard in how injectors are rated, for reference a delphi 1000cc injector will flow about 1135cc with c16. Bottom line is these are 880cc injectors.

 

SO lets do some math.. 43.5PSI is almost 4% lower than 45PSI so lets calculate approximatly what the 1000RC will flow at the same fuel pressure..

1070 + 4% = 1119CC

The point here is that if you had run any standard 1000CC injector against the ones you sell, they are clearly not flowing what a standard 1000CC would flow.

I'm not complaining about the inejctor itself, I understand they are really good injectors, I just don't understand why you'd market them as 1000CC when they ARE 880CC injectors by the standards of all the major injector companies.

And yes what they flow on gas is more important.. What most ppl get when they buy a "1000CC" injector is an injector that will flow over 1100CC with gas.
The ones your selling flow what a 880CC injector would flow on gas.

 

In any event, they flow 1000cc. They are sold to me as a 1000cc injector and i'm passing them on. I didn't decide to call them 1000's and I don't think selling them as 1000's is wrong. Only makes sense to me that the others should be sold as 1100's.

I just finished another car on them. Made 415whp at 83% duty cycle on E85. Right on par with any other 1000cc injector i've done on E85. Maybe it's that 100cc/min isn't that big of a difference, maybe it's that the actual fuel flow in the real world isn't as high on the others as some may think. Dunno.

From my experience with these injectors, and I probably have more than anyone with these on Hondas, these are making the same power as other 1000's have been at similar duty cycles.

Call them what you want. I'm calling them 1000's as long as they flow 1000cc of fuel per minute...

 

My set arrived on Monday coupled with a Walbro 255lph HP pump.

Shall see how they flow on the s2k in a month or 2.

 

We'll push them to the limit on KutusujuS2K's car in the next week or so.

 

How would it flow on pump gas?

 

1000cc. Many people use a 'test fluid' with the same specific gravity of the fuel being used, but the viscosity is different so it has an affect on actual fuel flow.

 

why even use a walbro with these injectors ? go inline two bosch 044

 

 

Interesting information, and I, for one, have learned something valuable from a thread on Honda-Tech (which is rare in itself, lol)..

880cc on test fluid, 1000cc on C16. Guess I better get those other 4 injectors installed sooner than I planned, or crank up that base pressure..

 

I have made 680whp @60psi base fuel pressure. Not sure on the duty cycle but around 90%

 

So the big fuss is they flow "880cc" when they are sold as 1000cc? If so, what does it matter. Do they get the job done more efficently than a "normal 1000cc injector" I would say yes.

They are matched...yes i think that's highly important

So if his suppiler decided to change the label to 880cc would that make people happy?

Point is they get the job done with ease and perform better than a bought set of RC1100cc i mean 1000cc. Whats improtant for majority of the people is the way the injector performs not what it says. I still would have bought them if it said 550cc injectors and performed as needed.

maybe it's just me.

thanks again Tony your customer(s) is/are happy and I've been happy for years with your suggestions never once steered me in the wrong direction.