Well said Xenocron, only someone that has experienced these injectors can say that.

Tony, I don't want to sell mine and I'm not giving them back. then I'll have to run crappy 1600cc and make less power and less mileage and drive-ability.

Just like everyone else, I have known Tony over the years and not 1 time has he tried to sell me something. If anything I will say, "I don't need that, and he would agree and say it' a waste of money. So from my experience I have to say the same.

Back to Topic. these injectors are worth more than what we pay for them IMO. I would have paid more for them because they are worth it when there in the car.

 

Noones knocked these injectors, we all know there badass. But thats the whole point, wouldn't the normal guys say to himself, "Since these are so much better, how come they don't support more hp than a normal 1000 injector?" Thats a correct statement if you substitute 880 in there. I don't agree with the current way injectors are rated, but thats how its done. Maybe thats something we may be able to push to change.

But Xeno, do i think these will out flow a set of precison 1000's at higher pressure, i'm going to have to go with No. You and i both know of a certain guy that made over 840hp on your dyno with a set of 1000's and got ridiculed. The reason i'm going to say that, is because the boschs do flow less than a set of regular 1000's, and typically the reason a set of 1000's are done at lets call it 720whp, its because they don't have enough fuel system to support them. Thats why that particular car made so much on a set of 1000's, he had 1300hp worth of pump. Not an a1000 where the flow is nosing off at 75lbs of pressure.

But I can test it if you guys want, I'll crank the flow bench to about 100lbs(or as high as i can get it, it wouldn't go over 95lbs with a 2200cc injector). But then you get to other issues of higher voltage thats needed to open the injector at higher pressure.

If someone wants to send me an rc1000, i'll see if there is such a huge difference between the test fluid and c16.

 

test it with real gas or c16 and not test fluid, then once you test it it will say whatever it will say and still will not effect that the injectors still get the job done and are on par with majority of any other 1000cc injector.

technically you are making a fuss becuase of what it's labled...who gives a crap what it says they get the job done. What it says is small what it does it big.

maybe it's just me. i don't get it

 

I do believe they will outflow any Bosch or Lucas injector (Low Impedance) at a higher rail pressure (with the right fuel pump setup).

As far as the setup you are talking about on my dyno, I would love to get him to switch over to these...but he doesnt need it. He is also running a FJO Driver box which does help a set of Precision 1000s act a little better. It would be a great test, but I dont want to push him into beating on high highly expensive car for the sake of my sanity

Thats another question, when Low Impedance injectors are put on a test bench, are Low Impedance drivers used during the test process or is a Honda Resistor Box used?

Remember Bosch rates these injectors able to handle a measly 7 bar of fuel pressure in OEM applications, where "conservative" ratings are generally the norm...and they are High Impedance, takes one more component out of the mix (the resistor box) in our applications. Less parts to fail is always better

 

If your **** you can do what I do for the retarded Microtech that has no battery compensation tables, and build a stable voltage regulator.

Of course, a flawed battery comp table is 10 times better than none, so for most applications your "roll with it" is the correct choice. Everything I see that has a big battery voltage fluctuation that causes problems either needs the wiring fixed before tuning, or is a Toyota.

 

Xeno,

I have no clue about the low impedance drivers in the test bech, thats an issue that has come up. You don't change anything when you swap back and forth from high impedence to low impedence. Maybe the unit self test's the impedence before it does it routine, like i said thats something i/we don't know.

Less components is always better, but whens the last time you seen a resistor box or driver box fail. I've never seen either.

My quetion is will these things open with 12-13v at 130lbs of rail pressure? because thats prolly close to what its gonna take to make 840whp, with a set of these, if possible.

Hybridcivicls-t,
the issue is that injectors are rated and sold based on there flow ratings. It might not be the best way, but thats how its currently done. An actual techinal discussion is going on. I'm not bashing the injectors, so the posts of cheerleading isn't needed. We understand you LOVE these injectors, you have a whole thread based on it.

 

Not exactly related to the discussion here, but I just wanted to say have had the pleasure of using these injectors recently on a car w/Pro1's, and was highly impressed.

Typically a car with Pro1's & Precision or RC1000cc injectors does not idle very well, with lots of the typical popping and AFR fluctuation. With the Bosch 1000's, I was able to see a nice clean pop-free idle at a 14.7:1 afr @ 900rpm with zero AFR fluctuation on the Pro1's. Definitely makes the tuners job alot easier, and everybody likes a nice clean idle!

to these injectors, and the included injector battery voltage offset tables at all base fuel pressure levels is a definite plus, something that should be included with all injectors. You can't go wrong with these!

 

just FYI, im not stupid and i know exactly whats going on. I'm not cheerleading i'm stating my opinion against yours.

your "cheerleading" about how it "needs" to be 880cc stated on the injector because they flow that on test fluid.

just as stated earlier, so if these are labeled 1000cc injectors and should be 880's why are other labeled 1000cc and they flow more? point is............IT'S A LABEL

i would like to see the test on actual fluid that is used in our cars.

your point is that they should be 880's..."on a label or sold as." when it's be stated they come to him with that label and they are flowing what any other 1000cc injector will, so why would anyone think differently

So, test it with real fluid to get the results you say.

 

I've never seen a resistor box fail, but have seen inj. drivers fail.

These are tested up to 100psi base fuel pressure. The base fuel pressure is all that matters as long as it's a 1:1 regulator. You can run 100psi base pressure and 200psi boost, your 300psi rail pressure is still giving you the same pressure ratio across the injector and it will act no different that 100psi rail pressure in an N/A application. At 100psi rail pressure, you need a min. of 10v and you end up with 1500cc/min of flow.

 

I guess these injectors can make 700whp

 

50psi base fuel pressure and Q16 fuel, which generally takes about 5% more than C16 or other fuels since it's oxygenated. These were maxed out, 99% duty at 9k rpm. RPM eats up duty cycle fast, keep that in mind. If you were making the power at 8k you could make more power on a given injector than at 9k.

 

Did another B series today. Made 681whp at 27psi, at 88% duty cycle and 55psi base fuel pressure. It was with only a single Bosch 044 pump. Fuel pressure was falling a bit up top, the 044's start to fall off after about 650whp.

This was on Q16 as well, which is oxygenated and requires about 5% more fuel volume than regular gas.

 

why was the fuel pressure falling off at such a low pressure?

 

hey i had a question on these. whats the max pressure these injectors can take? also i have dual bosch 044 fuel pumps. how much pressure will both these push? thnks

 

Max fuel pressure on these is about 100psi base.

The Bosch 044 only flows about 400lbs/hr at 70-80psi. From my experience with them in turbo applications, they generally start to die a little past 650whp.

I also suspect that there is a 10 micron filter before the pump. When you do that it makes the pump sound weird and the customer wasn't sure what size the pre filter was.

 

Tony did a nice job on my buddys orange integra he tuned today. Runs very smooth...

Only issue we had was minor boost leakage from the vacuum fittings on the back of the intake manifold. Smaller hoses remedy that, but will need to change to barb fittings....other then that everything went perfect.

Tony, i too suspect he does an inappropriate fuel filter as well. Will check that out.

He needs tires very badly! haha....no traction what so ever.

Great job Tony and thanks again!


(Tony: In case your wondering i'm the guy in the Green shirt today..)

 

so will my car start to die after 650whp even with the 2 bosch 044 fuel pumps?

 

You'll be fine if you have 2 Bosch 044 pumps, the other guy only had 1.

 

I plan to get 2 bosch 044's(for 750whp+), but should they be inline or parallel?

 

Run the 044's in parallel. They'll easy make more than enough fuel pressure on their own w/o being run in series.

I'm finishing up a Supra next week that we put dual 044's in the tank and we're running 100psi base fuel pressure with these injectors.

 

Whats the ideal way on a honda to run 2 bosch 044 pumps. Earlier in the thread you mentioned to run them in-line, so that they would reach peak pressure. Now you saying to run them parallel.

The only reason i ask is because your the man with the knowledge. I just want to make sure and get my fuel system right the 1st time!

Also, I will be contacting you soon for a set of these injectors!

 

I didn't know exactly how much pressure the 044's were good for until I saw some actual testing from Kinsler Fuel Injection. They are good for the pressure we need when run parallel, so no need to run them inline. I didn't realize they would make that much pressure when run in parallel when I stated you should run them in series.

 

You'd really have to read the fuel pressure after each pump. The way series works is the pumps basicly spilt the rail pressure in 2 (too early to calc PR's), and you'd get the flow that a single pump flows at half fuel rail pressure. Pumps generally flow much more at 0psi than they do at 100psi, search for a pump flow map to get an idea. So if a single pump flows 300lph at 50psi, and 400lph at 25psi, you'd have around 400lph with 2 pumps making 50psi at the rail. A parallel setup would run almost 2x the flow as a single pump, so 2x300lph=600lph.

The problem is how very high power setups tend to use a LOT of boost & fuel, and therefore LOTS of fuel pressure. At 100psi, parallel would be 2x one pump's flow at that pressure, which might be 2x125lph=250lph for the same pumps above. In series, the same pumps would flow 300lph, since each is only doing 50psi to get 100psi at the rail.

FYI you need 4x the fuel pressure to flow 2x the gas, roughly. When you reach the far end of a pump's pressure range, it can end up flowing less gasoline molecules overall.

 

I don't think that is correct. The first pump in a series configuration should have lower outlet pressure than the second pump, which is working against rail pressure.

 

It's not true at all. Pressure is pressure. You don't get 100psi when you have two sources of 50psi. lol

Tony's right in his series configuration. When you start getting into pumps that have different flow ratings is when you start to see different things at the inlet/outlet.