Bailhatch

I have been trying to get this to run for hours now. I plan on posting this on Uberdata forum too as soon as it up agian.

here is the setup;

A6 block forged internal
Z6 head stock
92 hatch so only wiring that was added was vtec from shock tower to sensors.

USDM p28
PLX m300
new plugs, brk7e
RC 750cc high impedance
new GM 3 bar
stock pump for now
closed loop disabled
knock sensor disabled

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

here are some facts I have determined as of now..

>3 bar install - 4.98v across GD and PWR, 1.59v GD-signal, key on.
>ECU/chipping job - I am now using my personal p28 that I drive on daily
>Car runs fine with stock injectors and map and a d15 ecu.
>no vac leaks around IM/injectors/lines
>when car does run it throws no codes.
>with ver 1.70 the car runs stupid rich in deep vac and 20:1+AFR past about 10" of vac. 'idles' at 1600rpm
>with ver 1.66 car runs lean 18:1-20:1 all the time, all rpms. idles at 1000
>timing maps are stock p28

I have tried about 25 different fuel maps for vac in both versions of Uberdata. I only have experiance with stock maps and 450s which I have been able to tune pretty well. Any ideas,post em up!

nonvtecD

How is the 1.7 map in boost? Still stupid rich? I don't have experience with injectors that big but have heard they are really hard to idle.

Pfieff

I had a hell of a time with uberdata and a 3 bar map sensor w/ big injectors. I think the scalor is way off for the 3 bar. I put my 550cc injectors in as 281cc and it worked pretty good for a starting point.

Burke

hey man, i have been tunning my y7 block/y8 head, z6 intake, obd1, p28, 14b, dsm 450's, 3bar uberdata setup for a week or so now on the way to school and stuff. i have a walbro 255 and stock fpr with a hole drilled in it. i,ve been using uber1.66 and will send you my latest bin if you like. i know its not the same, but it may get you running a little better. i spent like 2 hours converting over my 1 bar map to 3bar and it works quite nice except for the touchy decel.
let me know and i'll send it your way
good luck

Bailhatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D15B7turbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How is the 1.7 map in boost? Still stupid rich? I don't have experience with injectors that big but have heard they are really hard to idle.</TD></TR></TABLE>

haha in boost. I can't even get it past 3 grand free reving it

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Pfieffdog &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I had a hell of a time with uberdata and a 3 bar map sensor w/ big injectors. I think the scalor is way off for the 3 bar. I put my 550cc injectors in as 281cc and it worked pretty good for a starting point.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I tried that, around 350cc got me as close to running as I got. It would still go full rich in deep vac. I would start it, idled OK, in the 14s, then it would slowly work it's way down to less than 10. then if you rev it at all, full lean.

I just made a pretty nice map using 1.66 with the stock map and the 750s. Runs great. put it up around 10-11psi (45 trim t3) and gave it a rough tune for high 10s to low 12s. Breaks the tires free easily when the tq2 comes on in 2nd. Sucks that that only took an hour and I spent all day on the 3 bar and didn't leave the parking lot.

ya burke, send me that bin if you didn't get my IM yet, I'd like to check it out.

DRAGLS

Why don't you try out crome?

Bailhatch

perhaps I should. I have done several succesfull Uberdata setups and still have yet to fully utalize that program. Chrome= odb1?

DRAGLS

crome is obd1 and it works so much better than uberdata

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

I don't know about all that, uberdata is kinda more user friendly in my opinion, but maybe I am biased. But they 3bar map scalars are off something like 100 percent.

TurboJesse

ive found it be more like ~150%...

Bailhatch

I didn't find it!

MiKeAhOwSkI

I have yet to see someone with a 3bar uberdata car that runs right... it's kind of scaring me because I'm about to install my 3bar w/ dsm 450's. Hopefully some answers come up in this thread.

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

There are a few people you just have to get the percentage that the map is off right. IT is somewhere between 100 and 150 percent. You can even scale you injectors down that far for a basemap. Probably much easier to tune it that way. You just have to know what you are getting into before you throw on a 3bar. Why do you want a 3 bar with 450s? Are you going to be running that much boost on them? Just curious.

Bailhatch

So there is an unknown variation around 150%. Does it seem to be the same % across all parts of the maps or is it different depending on vac/boost/rpm? Can anyone explain why the maps are off with the 3 Bar?

civic-4-ges

Your in maine, aren't you Bailhatch?

Quad-Damag

my local tunners perfer crome over urberdata, becuase the urberdata is very buggy when it comes to 3 bar

both of my firends are runing crome making GREAT Power

omahaturbocivic

Well I have my setup running pretty decent with a built d16z6 9:1 comp, gm 3 bar, and modified wrx injectors(roughly 850cc) in uberdata 1.66. It did take quite a bit of tuning to get my injectors tamed, then it took quite a bit more retuning when I switched to the 3 bar but in the end it came out pretty decent. The only drawback at all is the touchy deaccel which was supposed to be caused by the wrong fuel cut which is now adjustable in 1.70. If you want try my basemap just pm me, of course it will be off a bit from your setup but it might be closer than anything you have.


As far as the scalars being off 150% what do you guys mean exactly? Is the fuel just off 150% so it needs more tuning or is the map reading a 150% wrong, meaning if you tune in a certian column that is not really the right column you are actually in? Nobody is clear on exactly what is off, they just say its off. Im guessing the fuel is just off because people say it can be solved buy inputing different injectors sizes, if so then this couldnt this also be solved by tuning and this wuold only effect the initial basemap being a little further off?

I would like to try crome if it works so well with 3 bar but how well does it work with big injectors? I know some people were having problems because it does not have the various enrichment values quite down yet. Uberdata not perfect either but I saw others were having more trouble with crome. This is the biggest drawback right now with any of the free editors trying to use big injectors, a lot of us are seeing significant afr variations depending on temperature changes, this is a way bigger concern to me than any slight scalar variances in deep vaccuum.


Modified by omahaturbocivic at 4:23 PM 11/19/2004

MiKeAhOwSkI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93turbo16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Why do you want a 3 bar with 450s? Are you going to be running that much boost on them? Just curious.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just gonna get it setup for now and run 12-14 psi or whatever I can squeeze from the 450's. 650's or bigger going in later.

Bailhatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civic-4-ges &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your in maine, aren't you Bailhatch?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes

Well I jacked that "I hate Uberdata..." thread https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1060460, and it looks like the voltage curve is part of the problem.

"Blake told me earlier that GM 3 bar doesn't seem to be linear. High vacuum has a very low voltage output - multiplying vacuum fuel maps by 0.43 was the approx calibration he came up with from a partial datalog comparing 3 bar to stock MAP. Once you hit transition into boost, the 3 bar puts out the voltage you would expect from a linear sensor.
This also explains why 3 bar setups seem to have a bit of fuel cut due to "high" vacuum readings." J. Davis

I did not pay enough attention to the timing maps I think. I probably should have just imported a stock p28 ignition map to start since it looks like the 3 bar may mess those up.

racinskittle

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by omahaturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> The only drawback at all is the touchy deaccel which was supposed to be caused by the wrong fuel cut which is now adjustable in 1.70.
</TD></TR></TABLE>


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Burke &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey man, i have been tunning my y7 block/y8 head, z6 intake, obd1, p28, 14b, dsm 450's, 3bar uberdata setup for a week or so now on the way to school and stuff. i have a walbro 255 and stock fpr with a hole drilled in it. i,ve been using uber1.66 and will send you my latest bin if you like. i know its not the same, but it may get you running a little better. i spent like 2 hours converting over my 1 bar map to 3bar and it works quite nice except for the touchy decel.
let me know and i'll send it your way
good luck</TD></TR></TABLE>

For the decel set the fuel cut value as 7 if you're using a 3bar. It should help.

ITR981002

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DRAGLS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">crome is obd1 and it works so much better than uberdata</TD></TR></TABLE>

^ What he said. I couldn't agree more.

racinskittle

Well I just got done tuning with Mikeahowski. If anyone needs a basemap for the 3bar and 450's holler.....PM or IM me on AIM.

The setup was D16z6, 3bar, 450's, CP pistons on Eagle rods bored .02 over.

If you need a basemap for larger injectors (perferably 550's) try this out!! Use the Injectors Scalar in Uberdata and test it. I would like some feedback on how well the scaler works. Im sure it shouldn't be too bad. If that goes to hell, and you're up for testing things, then try this...

you could take out 18% of the fuel for the 450's if you're running 550's (and then there's no need for the scaler). This MAY work and will have to be verified with a wideband. Hopefully it does! (please be careful, i haven't tried this yet so if it goes lean....STOP). You might have to add a tad bit of fuel using this math though.

As for running stock 450's here the low down. This map will get your car started first try It runs really well, but im a little worried the low vac may be a touch lean. You may want to add fuel. As for the rest of vac, it seems to be ok but there are a few areas where there are blips. Boost needs to have a little fuel taken out. (A:F in the 10's.) This caused a few blips in certain areas as well. Other than that it runs DAMN strong. Rips the tires loose in 2nd no problem! Part throttle seems good to, but it may need some fine tuning.

Here's about where are A:F's read out

Idle: Good, A tad lean (14's+)
Mid vac (cruising) A:F 14.7's
High vac High 13's to mid 12's

Low boost 11-12's.
Mid boost 10's-11's. (this is where we needed quite bit of tuning)
High boost (5500-redline) GREAT!!! Gas all the way down we were getting mid 11's for the most part. (very strong)

Temps were around 32 degrees that night.

Hope this works for everyone.

BTW: The map is Skittle_Mike in the UD forum if you're too lazy to PM me

-Dan

PS: I would HIGHLY suggest running a wideband with this due to the lack of datalogging capabilities we had.

mchuang

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DRAGLS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">crome is obd1 and it works so much better than uberdata</TD></TR></TABLE> How does crome work with out rtp. Do you just burn the chip, make a run, look at air fuel make adjustments and then burn a new chip with adjustments and keep doing that until its right?

MindEracer

iTrader: (1)

Congrates on the successfull tune, it's alway feels awsome when get your car running on free software!!!
I'm posting because there are some comments in this post that I wanted to address..

I use crome and have written quit a bit of scripts for crome. So I'm a little biase, but crome is the best choice (in my opinion). If you get the full datalogging version it's pretty amazing, datalogging w/ full lamda logging, percent to target differences, and auto tuning(seems to work OK)!!!Crome also datalogs in vtec, and I don't think Uber does this very well?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by omahaturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would like to try crome if it works so well with 3 bar but how well does it work with big injectors? I know some people were having problems because it does not have the various enrichment values quite down yet. Uberdata not perfect either but I saw others were having more trouble with crome. This is the biggest drawback right now with any of the free editors trying to use big injectors, a lot of us are seeing significant afr variations depending on temperature changes, this is a way bigger concern to me than any slight scalar variances in deep vaccuum.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I wrote a script to add all the needed multipliers, so that has been solved for crome. and I currently run 72lb(752cc) injectors on a Turbo H22a and just passed Colorado emissions with no problem. This software is quietly becoming very powerfull....

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mchuang &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> How does crome work with out rtp. Do you just burn the chip, make a run, look at air fuel make adjustments and then burn a new chip with adjustments and keep doing that until its right?</TD></TR></TABLE>

You can do it like that^^^, but there are other options..
1)I use a romulator and it works great, crome uses the romulator perfectly(real time tuning f'n amazing and time saving).
2)The PGMFI RTP board is being test now, but should be working in the near future.
Just wanted to clear a few things up..