Please email me, I am not personally aware of any of these issues and of course I want to make sure my employees are handling things correctly.

chrisharris@xenocron.com and I will make it right.

Chris

 

most fuel pumps are designed to handle large line sizes. especially since fuel is easier to pump than oil, given te difference in viscosity and weight. the OEM oil pump was never designed with higher power outputs and higher flow/pressure requirements in mind.

with things like oil cooler lines, larger diameter lines mean more fluid has to be moved to maintain a specific pressure, larger line equals slightly more pressure drop, since the line flows more fluid at a given pressure than smaller lines

also, larger lines generally mean slower fluid flow given the larger line cross section.

a larger oil cooler also means more fluid flow, so when you add all of this together you see that the pump has to move a tremendous fluid volume to keep the oil pressure at operational levels, much more than in a setup with smaller lines/cooler or with no oil cooler at all

if you also consider the increased load on the engine conponents from higher power output and rpm range on top of the increased flow requirements of the oil system as a whole then you see how pump failure can become a pretty relevant concern.

I've also seen a lot of pump gear failures on motors that are running a non-harmonic dampening pulley like the ctr pulley or the aluminum underdrive pulleys

 

WELL SAID.

I'm doing a 3400+ Rebuild right now on a motor car for a customer, was running a N1 CTR pulley, and he broke the oil pump gear, it caught the tang of the main bearing and actually sucked in the entire bottom of the block where that main bearing sits. Benson sleeved block, toasted.. Most people will say " I've had great results and all this jazz".. There needs to be something that does absorb the shocking of that pump... a stock pulley will be just fine.. anything is better then those pieces of ****.

 

Harris as always coming through, good job buddy

 

I remeber "back in the day" when people started running ctr crank pulleys and aluminium crank pulleys on turbo Hondas then they all suddenly had oil pump failures, spun bearings, etc and everyone was like "i don't know why"

yay for bandwagons.

 

And Sac riders, who believe in smoke and mirr0rs

 

My use of a fuel pump was misunderstood and not a great example.


The oil pump is a mechanical pump, it's output is strictly determined by the RPM of the crankshaft it cannot flow more or be worked harder by increasing the capacity of the system, this is not saying the pump cannot be reworked to slightly increase flow. (The ACL pumps claim 20% additional flow over OEM pumps.) Changing to a "stronger" oil pump gear cannot improve oil flow or pressure, adjusting (shimming) the pressure relief valve does not increase oil flow and will cause additions stress on the system.


It's frightening to me that a number of you cannot grasp how an oil pump functions, this is NOT a complex system to understand.

 

E-thuggin, feel good??

Nice build chicken, coming along at a good pace

 

Thanks.


Chris Harris you have a email.



Thanks all this oil pump info is very useful.
Keep it coming.

 

I understand that the pump is limited in flow and pressure output vs engine rpm, this is why adding long, large oil cooper lines and a large oil cooler causes lubrication issues, as the oil cooler can cause a pressure drop in the system over "normal" pressures

we saw a 2-3psi pressure drop in our drysump system on our ls7 when we went to a larger, less restrictive oil cooler(roughly twice OEM dimensions), with stock lines. this wasn't a big deal for use as we have a katech dual scavenge, dual pressure section pump (vs the OEM single pressure, single scavenge pump) as well as a ported pan and lingenfelter high capacity dry sump tank... pressure in the system went up with the new pump (cant recall vs stock)

but it's a perfect example of what a larger cooler core can do (our setup only has 4-5ft of line between the motor and cooler loop,.excluding line length from the motor to the tank and back... I'm confident had we gone with larger lines there would have been a slightly pressure drop) especially when you consider the limitations of an OEM Honda oil pump (regardless of what gear is in it)

the aftermarket cooler we used is similar in overall size and design to those the typical turbo Honda runs... and even with a dry sump system, upgraded dry sump pump, etc, we still saw a pressure drop, albeit minimal. when you look at the flow limitations of stock pump casting there should be a slightly higher pressure drop (im sure Mac will chime in)

porting/gasket matching the pump, pickup, and block inlet can increase overall flow but not much... shimming is basically pointless as higher pressure = reduced flow (think fuel pump, this time the analogy works )

 

Now your in point, the additional equipment can reduce pressure but that does not cause extra load/stress on the pump itself.

 

yea I was having a brain fart trying to word it properly lol

 

Sub'd, Looking forward to see how this build looks when its done. Plus alot of good info sprinkled in here

 

That's what I'm over here saying.
Never knew so much about oil pumps.
Now I can pass on the info to friends and pretend to
Be intelligent.

 

that's the important part lol

I know that Moroso makes, or made, a dry sump oil pan for b series motors (dual scavenge pan) and a few companies made bolt on dry sump pump kits around this pan

they consisted of a dual scavenge, single pressure section pump. brackets, a new crank pulley or bolt on attachment for the OEM pulley to support the pump drive belt, and a pulley for the pump.

you had to supply/make your own lines as well as the dry sump oil storage tank, oil filter setup and/or oil cooler setup, and the vent tank (think catchcan). this was due to the obvious differences between various setups and chassis differences.

some of the kits put the pump in place of the ac pump or located it behind the block beneath the alternator... some kits relocated the alternator.

I don't know if Moroso still makes the pan or if the pump kits are still in production.

For a car that sees road course duty or a drag car trying to control crankcase windage it was a great setup. they eliminated crankcase pressure and reduced parasitic drag from the oil sloshing against the crank.

a company makes a crank scraper kit with Teflon fingers that perfectly mate to the conour of the crankshaft. these reduced windage and parasitic drag due to removing oil from the crank and keeping it in the pan. their dyno results showed an average 5hp increase and increased oil control under heavy G forces. they are fairly affordable as well

 

Fuel tank

 

Full-blown dual pump hanger with dual walbro 400lph pumps.
It can be done.

 

More update pics later today

 

That rather large hole in the gas tank... was that a spare/scrap tank that you cut the check fitment/position? Or is that the only way, to assemble both 400's in the tank and then seal the hole? None the less, impressive pump setup

 

That is the actual tank being used.
The reason for the hole was to alter the little baffle bowl thing to
Make the pumps sit correct.
They went in without doing so but just didn't like the wày they sat.

 

Uhhhh...

 

Little updates

 

I felt the same way about my intercooler .... Almost thought of not putting the bumper back on

 

I was about to say, bumper beam needs to go lol

 

Can't afford a new front end at the moment.
So probably going to get a lip or no front bumper