<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jordo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

that makes alot of since, but why are we all losing coolant??</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Remember coolant can be pushed out of the radiator by pressure</TD></TR></TABLE>

maybe the increased pressure under load/boost is forcing the coolant to be lost.. if the breather setup is not allowing the pressure to escape properly, then it sounds like incresed PCV pressure would build up.. causing a loss of coolant??

if the crankcase vent on the VC is sucking in moisture and causing it to mix with oil-mist/heat.. then i could see the milk issue.. but what would happen if you were to completly plug the crankcase port on the VC and add a larger vaccum source to the PCV system??.. this way moisture will have no way to enter the VC crankcase.. and larger vaccum would maybe help the higer pressure to circulate better throught the catch can..

also i think that the placement of your catch can lines may have something to do with how well the system can be circulated.. instead of using the IM.. you can use the plugs like endyne uses??

i dunno im just as confused as the rest of you.. just trying to piece together all the info we have here???

 

Today the guys are gonna do a pressure test with the pan off.. see how it comes out..

and swap my greddy can with a enydn catch can, and hook it up properly..

so we'll see

 

I have my catchcan setup this way and am aslo running step decked and I don't have milky **** in my valvecover. I did pull the valve cover off to find moisture, but no milky stuff. The moisture that gets let in throught the breather shouldn't be enough to cause the massive pudding these guys have. I guess the catch can COULD be a possibility but I wouldn't focus all of my attention there.

 

Whew....

After pressurizing the system with the oil pan off, they found a tiny pin hole in one of my coolant lines.

They fixed it, and i should have my car soon.

I am sooo happy.

 

Which coolant line ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jordo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Whew....

After pressurizing the system with the oil pan off, they found a tiny pin hole in one of my coolant lines.

They fixed it, and i should have my car soon.

I am sooo happy.</TD></TR></TABLE>

but still y is there that much water in your oil ?????

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I feel your guy's pain. Here is the one key element. Not one of you guys have had milky oil IN THE PAN. That is where the sleeves would be leaking, so I don't think it is a sleeve problem.
Things in common are a modified breather system, many complaints coming from costal areas (Gulf Breeze FL, San Diego CA, Louisiana, etc) and a slight loss of coolant.
Remember coolant can be pushed out of the radiator by pressure (micro head gasket pressure leaks into the cooling?), just a guess.
Milky valve cover can be caused by cool, moist air being sucked in the cover because of the fresh air breathing system. It mixes with the oil mist flying around in the valve cover area and becomes milky.
A key here is what B18Jay said. Kevin is running a 50-50 coolant mix but PURE water is coming out of his breather box, not a 50-50 mix. This is why I feel the milky valve cover is being cause by the breather.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Personally I don't think there would be a big difference between a small headgasket leak and a sleeve leaking. The water could leak past the sleeve, go into the pan, evaporate, and make its way up to under your valve cover. Only if you have a VERY bad oil/coolant mixing problem will the oil in the pan be very contaminated. Now, I certainly am not saying that there's a sleeve leaking, just saying it could be a possibility.

Regarding the coolant/oil sludge, my guess would be that the headgasket is leaking very slightly, causing the mix. Air pulled into the crankcase through the breathers would be VERY minimal imo. Not to mention, for people w/o pcv setups there's really very little vacuum in the crankcase, mostly + pressure.

-Mike

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jordo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Whew....</TD></TR></TABLE>ditto

Think about this....
Every morning you start your car. White smoke/moisture/condensation billows out the exhaust for the first minute or two. What is that? It is condensation that has gathered during the night. Probably caused by a hot Catalytic converter and hot muffler. Why does that moisture wind up in there? I don't know, I'm not a scientist. But it happens. Why cannot the same moisture in the air wind up in the valve cover over night from an open breather system. The moisture rises when the engine is started in the morning and mixes with the oil vapor and thus you get the foam.

 

I would agree w/ you, but this would mean that anyone w/ a nice catch can setup would experience this problem. I have a similar catch can setup, and have seen several others, and I/we don't have the problem of milky crap under the valve cover, at all. I live right at sea level and it gets very humid in the summer. My car's been running for well over a year like this w/ no accumulation of crud.

Unless someone positioned their catch can so that rain could enter it, I don't see how enough water could enter the engine to completely gum up the underside of a valvecover. The only engines where I've seen milky crap under the valve cover was either a leaky headgasket or leaking sleeves.

-Mike

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ditto

Think about this....
Every morning you start your car. White smoke/moisture/condensation billows out the exhaust for the first minute or two. What is that? It is condensation that has gathered during the night. Probably caused by a hot Catalytic converter and hot muffler. Why does that moisture wind up in there? I don't know, I'm not a scientist. But it happens. Why cannot the same moisture in the air wind up in the valve cover over night from an open breather system. The moisture rises when the engine is started in the morning and mixes with the oil vapor and thus you get the foam. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Water is a byproduct of combustion. Steam develops in the exhaust on cold mornings because the water created by combustion is cooled below the dew point by the cold exhaust pipe before dissipating. Has nothing to do with overnight condensation.

 

in my case, i believe the milky stuff i see is from a combination of things.. breather box, and the mositure still in the pan, from the 1st headgasket

 

jordo, where was the leak?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beepy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Water is a byproduct of combustion. Steam develops in the exhaust on cold mornings because the water created by combustion is cooled below the dew point by the cold exhaust pipe before dissipating. Has nothing to do with overnight condensation.</TD></TR></TABLE>Do you have a source for that information?

 

Jordo: I've never posted in any of your threads before and hardly know who you are... but I am quite familiar with all of your engine problems.... thats a bad sign. I'm sorry that I can't be of any help but my only recommendation is to sell your car while it still runs... your car is turning into a money pit.

 

Damn bro; good luck with that!! I'm soon gonna be in your boat!

 

Well the motor is back together, running good, but the milky stuff is back under the valve cover. I see that some of you guys are using the greddy and endyne catch cans. I have the stock breather system setup. I don't have anything modified. If I were to invest into a new breather setup, what brand seems to work the best?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b18Jay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well the motor is back together, running good, but the milky stuff is back under the valve cover. I see that some of you guys are using the greddy and endyne catch cans. I have the stock breather system setup. I don't have anything modified. If I were to invest into a new breather setup, what brand seems to work the best?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

On your PCV setup, what do you have running to the valve cover?

Are you running a breather filter?

Actually if you can take a few pics of your PCV setup it would really help out.

 

well i was wrong, my coolant is still being lost, just slower..

they are pulling the head off bringing to machine shop...

they are gonna look for any cracks and mic it..

 

man this realy sucks jordo , are you shure all the air is out of the system ???

 

I am using the factory PCV system with a Honda PCV valve. I have a tube that runs from the breather port on the valve cover to a breather filter. I will try to get some pics on here this weekend. I am curious what intake manifolds everyone has that is having this problem. I am using the stock GSR. I have to buddies that I have the same Benson stepped deck block that I have and they dont have the problem that I am having. The only difference in there setup compared to mine is the intake manifold. They both have the JG Victor X. I am willing to get one if this problem is being caused from the IM. Any additional help will be good.

 

sounds like a sleeve issue to me!
It doesnt take much of a crack or dropped sleeve to cause the problems your having.

It might not show up to the visible eye since theres no cylinder psi present, but I bet you have a hairline crack somewhere or the cylinder has dropped!
I doubt very very seriously that its an issue with the head.

One more thing to check, make sure all the intake manny bolts are tight, especially the ones for the number 4 cylinder, I have seen the coolant port leak into the intake manny on that cylinder. (is the intake gasket ok, are you running a stock gasket or the POS nylon Endyne "gasket" ?)

good luck!


Modified by Mochanic at 12:50 AM 2/25/2005

 

Damn sorry to hear about the problem man, the objective here is not to give up but to resolve the problem and evaluate why and how this problem would have occured. If need be do a complete break down and evaluate the situation. Good Luck and keep us posted.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mochanic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sounds like a sleeve issue to me!
It doesnt take much of a crack or dropped sleeve to cause the problems your having.

It might not show up to the visible eye since theres no cylinder psi present, but i bet you have a hairline crack somewhere!
I doubt very very seriously that its an issue with the head.

One more thing to check, make sure all the intake manny bolts are tight, especially the ones for the number 4 cylinder, I have seen the coolant port leak into the intake manny on that cylinder. (is the intake gasket ok, are you running a stock gasket or the POS nylon Endyne "gasket" ?)

good luck!


Modified by Mochanic at 11:11 PM 2/24/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>


If it were the sleeves "leaking" where would the coolent have to go before it got to the head? Down the spinning crank? Around the baffle maybe? Into the pan next I imagine? Through the oil pump where it would pressurized and sent through the WHOLE engine I would guess.........

Where is the milk in the oil pan then? It's the mystery of the year if you ask me.

If I had to take a guess after all of the information that has been presented to us I would have to say there is a possibilty that his PCV/check valve might have failed and allowed condensed moisture from the compressed air (boost) back into his engine. But I have not seen his PCV system to make a better guess.

But that is a shot in the dark.

There are not that many routes that the water can take to get under his valve cover and not to the rest of the engine.

If it was the "block" the rest of the engine would be "creamed" so to speak.

If coolent were to leak into the intake mani, where would it go? In the cylinders to be converted into steam then shot out the exhaust....

The only things I can see it coming from are:

The PCV system

The head has a leak in its water jacket somehow allowing coolent under the valvecover.


A few questions I have are:

How long does it take to get creamy?
Are you loosing coolent?
Does it get creamy if you stay out of boost?
Does it get creamy faster when boosting?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TrueNorthStar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


A few questions I have are:

How long does it take to get creamy?
Are you loosing coolent?
Does it get creamy if you stay out of boost?
Does it get creamy faster when boosting?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Mine was creamy within 20 miles of first start up.

Yes I am losing coolant, not very much though.

I have yet to boost on this latest breakin. there is 165 miles since start up.

No sure if it gets creamy faster.

I am at a loss, I have changed the PCV valve numerous times, and Honda PCV valves are about 4 times more expensive than one from an auto parts store. I am going to check the intake mani bolts to make sure they are tight, but if they were loose, wouldn't that cause a vacuum leak? I am using a Hondata IM gasket also. Keep the help coming, anything is helpful at this point. I am still curious what IM everyone who is having this problem is using?

 

Is your pcv system connected to your intake in any way?