10 sec NOS setup?...
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From: baxter, tn, usa
Re: (f22b2tdave)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by f22b2tdave »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wait i thought this was a nitrous thread. can someone edit this entire thread and delete the bullshit, this WAS a great thread.</TD></TR></TABLE>
ditto...sometimes i let my temper get the best of me......
TO EACH HIS OWN
harv
ditto...sometimes i let my temper get the best of me......
TO EACH HIS OWN
harv
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From: baxter, tn, usa
Re: (MidShipCivic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MidShipCivic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">[Wow thanks 
I'll give your number to my girl friend and tell her you are available anytime!]
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'll give your number to my girl friend and tell her you are available anytime!] </TD></TR></TABLE>
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Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Caldwell, Id, USA
Re: (ghostofnyc)
If you dont like whats being said then dont reply simple as that! No need to act like High Schoolers! 
I enjoy reading and learning this, if one miss understands or dont know then correct him in the ADULT manner! Simple as that and leave it alone! No need for smart @$$ comments among other childish stuff...
If you have personal probs then take it to a PM or be quite pls....
As said above this WAS a good thread and lets keep it goin in this general driection PLS!
I enjoy reading and learning this, if one miss understands or dont know then correct him in the ADULT manner! Simple as that and leave it alone! No need for smart @$$ comments among other childish stuff...
If you have personal probs then take it to a PM or be quite pls....
As said above this WAS a good thread and lets keep it goin in this general driection PLS!
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From: baxter, tn, usa
Re: (teg2die4)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by teg2die4 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you dont like whats being said then dont reply simple as that! No need to act like High Schoolers!
I enjoy reading and learning this, if one miss understands or dont know then correct him in the ADULT manner! Simple as that and leave it alone! No need for smart @$$ comments among other childish stuff...
If you have personal probs then take it to a PM or be quite pls....
As said above this WAS a good thread and lets keep it goin in this general driection PLS! </TD></TR></TABLE>
i could not agree more and i have deleted all my offensive posts.
now back to the gas:
i have seriously been thinking about doing 1 fuel and nos noid per
cylinder.i got to thinking about what phase change racing said.the way those blocks are designed are like a dead head regulator.the more i think about it
the more i think there is no way to make it flow evenly w/any kind of
distribution block.that's why i think you could tune the nitrous to fuel
ratio's alot more precise.
i think this is what pcr is gonna come up with or if he hasn't already.
from pcr's theory of having a seperate nozzle for each the nitrous and fuel
they can atomize alot better and that is just one of the many keys to making
power "atomizing the fuel"
i am drawing up the set up now and trying to take out all the trouble spots.
the only problem i see! is the amps these little suckers will draw.pcr where are you at...need your input or give me some idea's
harv
I enjoy reading and learning this, if one miss understands or dont know then correct him in the ADULT manner! Simple as that and leave it alone! No need for smart @$$ comments among other childish stuff...
If you have personal probs then take it to a PM or be quite pls....
As said above this WAS a good thread and lets keep it goin in this general driection PLS!
</TD></TR></TABLE>i could not agree more and i have deleted all my offensive posts.
now back to the gas:
i have seriously been thinking about doing 1 fuel and nos noid per
cylinder.i got to thinking about what phase change racing said.the way those blocks are designed are like a dead head regulator.the more i think about it
the more i think there is no way to make it flow evenly w/any kind of
distribution block.that's why i think you could tune the nitrous to fuel
ratio's alot more precise.
i think this is what pcr is gonna come up with or if he hasn't already.
from pcr's theory of having a seperate nozzle for each the nitrous and fuel
they can atomize alot better and that is just one of the many keys to making
power "atomizing the fuel"
i am drawing up the set up now and trying to take out all the trouble spots.
the only problem i see! is the amps these little suckers will draw.pcr where are you at...need your input or give me some idea's
harv
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From: Caldwell, Id, USA
Re: (1700anddroping)
Harv
I would think that that as well (from what pcr said) but would this be harder to "control" as far as the fuel and nitro pressurers are concerd?
Just a thought?
I would think that that as well (from what pcr said) but would this be harder to "control" as far as the fuel and nitro pressurers are concerd?
Just a thought?
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From: baxter, tn, usa
Re: (teg2die4)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by teg2die4 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Harv
I would think that that as well (from what pcr said) but would this be harder to "control" as far as the fuel and nitro pressurers are concerd?
Just a thought?</TD></TR></TABLE>
well pcr said that he likes to use one bottle for all stages.he simply said
he liked having the same bottle pressure for all the stages he is running.
now on the fuel......you build water behind the dam so to speak"meaning the pressure".so when you activate the fuel.the pressure is already there on all of
them.it's like the injector "your running 4 off of 1 line and all have the same pressure"the only difference is you are opening and closing them yourself
and controlling how much fuel is dumped by the jets.
there would be no need for a distribution block "robbing peter to pay paul"
so to speak.meaning very even distribution.
harv
I would think that that as well (from what pcr said) but would this be harder to "control" as far as the fuel and nitro pressurers are concerd?
Just a thought?</TD></TR></TABLE>
well pcr said that he likes to use one bottle for all stages.he simply said
he liked having the same bottle pressure for all the stages he is running.
now on the fuel......you build water behind the dam so to speak"meaning the pressure".so when you activate the fuel.the pressure is already there on all of
them.it's like the injector "your running 4 off of 1 line and all have the same pressure"the only difference is you are opening and closing them yourself
and controlling how much fuel is dumped by the jets.
there would be no need for a distribution block "robbing peter to pay paul"
so to speak.meaning very even distribution.
harv
my bad. i 'm just pissed that im in here learning alot of **** that i never knew and well you can read the rest. i will be the bigger man about it sorry cubish for messing up your thread.
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From: Ca
on the sol/cyl idea (constructive criticism here) i would fear the initial heat soak of the three addition sols for the first several seconds of flowing n2o. the liquid n2o would have to absorb by phase change (absorption of the sol's heat) so you get gas rather that liquid through the sol. the same reason we use the smallest n2o sols that will do the job. also why we purge onto our n2o soleniods.
on the topic of multiple bottles: you can build a manifold that all your bottles feed into and a single line leads off of to the solenoid(s)... there is a guy that runs at bonneville who has like 4 or 5 15 or 20 lb bottles all linked together by one manifold. uses it all in less than 5 miles
freakin' crazy.
on the topic of multiple bottles: you can build a manifold that all your bottles feed into and a single line leads off of to the solenoid(s)... there is a guy that runs at bonneville who has like 4 or 5 15 or 20 lb bottles all linked together by one manifold. uses it all in less than 5 miles
freakin' crazy.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Plantation, FL, USA
Re: (1700anddroping)
things are getting better and back to normal.. i sold my eg and got a new car to put my turbo set up in... no nitrous car as of now cause the place that fills my bottles still has no power and isnt open... and i cant get race gas either 
1 out of every 5 traffic lights work.. fast food resturants have selected menu's if they are even open.. sucks cause i eat fast food for lunch everyday..lol things could be a lot worse though
1 out of every 5 traffic lights work.. fast food resturants have selected menu's if they are even open.. sucks cause i eat fast food for lunch everyday..lol things could be a lot worse though
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From: Caldwell, Id, USA
Re: (RMS)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RMS »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">on the sol/cyl idea (constructive criticism here) i would fear the initial heat soak of the three addition sols for the first several seconds of flowing n2o. the liquid n2o would have to absorb by phase change (absorption of the sol's heat) so you get gas rather that liquid through the sol. the same reason we use the smallest n2o sols that will do the job. also why we purge onto our n2o soleniods.
on the topic of multiple bottles: you can build a manifold that all your bottles feed into and a single line leads off of to the solenoid(s)... there is a guy that runs at bonneville who has like 4 or 5 15 or 20 lb bottles all linked together by one manifold. uses it all in less than 5 miles freakin' crazy.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Nice, didnt think bout that... But, Would it matter THAT much tho? the heat soak i would think would be min. at best with certin preventive messures no? I can see how it would affect for a longer period of time tho...
I dont like the fact of more wieght as far as bottles... I think of it as, ok i want to use 1 bottle(or less wight) and how can i make that happen.....
But damn to have 5 bottles? And running longer then 5miles @ the flats = nutz haha
on the topic of multiple bottles: you can build a manifold that all your bottles feed into and a single line leads off of to the solenoid(s)... there is a guy that runs at bonneville who has like 4 or 5 15 or 20 lb bottles all linked together by one manifold. uses it all in less than 5 miles
freakin' crazy.</TD></TR></TABLE>Nice, didnt think bout that... But, Would it matter THAT much tho? the heat soak i would think would be min. at best with certin preventive messures no? I can see how it would affect for a longer period of time tho...
I dont like the fact of more wieght as far as bottles... I think of it as, ok i want to use 1 bottle(or less wight) and how can i make that happen.....
But damn to have 5 bottles? And running longer then 5miles @ the flats = nutz haha
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From: baxter, tn, usa
Re: (RMS)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RMS »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">on the sol/cyl idea (constructive criticism here) i would fear the initial heat soak of the three addition sols for the first several seconds of flowing n2o. the liquid n2o would have to absorb by phase change (absorption of the sol's heat) so you get gas rather that liquid through the sol. the same reason we use the smallest n2o sols that will do the job. also why we purge onto our n2o soleniods.
on the topic of multiple bottles: you can build a manifold that all your bottles feed into and a single line leads off of to the solenoid(s)... there is a guy that runs at bonneville who has like 4 or 5 15 or 20 lb bottles all linked together by one manifold. uses it all in less than 5 miles freakin' crazy.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i don't think the heat soak would be my problem.like i said those noids draw some juice and if i cain't feed them enought.then yes they will get hot.but i do not plan on letting that happen.besides looking awesome as hell and being exspensive as hell....and getting to tune it a little more precise i think thats about it.
WHOA....i just thought about something.back to the drawing board.will be back later to explain.
harv
cubish.man hang in there?
on the topic of multiple bottles: you can build a manifold that all your bottles feed into and a single line leads off of to the solenoid(s)... there is a guy that runs at bonneville who has like 4 or 5 15 or 20 lb bottles all linked together by one manifold. uses it all in less than 5 miles
freakin' crazy.</TD></TR></TABLE>i don't think the heat soak would be my problem.like i said those noids draw some juice and if i cain't feed them enought.then yes they will get hot.but i do not plan on letting that happen.besides looking awesome as hell and being exspensive as hell....and getting to tune it a little more precise i think thats about it.
WHOA....i just thought about something.back to the drawing board.will be back later to explain.
harv
cubish.man hang in there?
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Spokane, WA, USA
Re: (ghostofnyc)
Wow this thread turned itself around for the better and i've got a lot of things to respond to.
#1 the mutiple solenoid idea. I do have a dream for such a system but as far as using it in the conventional constraints we currently have I don't see much gain in it at this point. Ideally what I want to see is such a system that is jetless with sequential controls to keep the Pulses (especially while its in progressive control mode) timed with the intake opening events.
My issues with the distribution block problems are minor in comparison to other system problems out there currently. My new blocks should (conceptually anyway) solve the problem. They are nothing fancy at all, they are just designed to provide equal flow and ease of installation. They also have a smooth inner orifice with the area of the main entry orifice matched to the sum of the 4 outles (told ya i'm **** about this stuff). It won't look nearly as cool as the NX showerhead thingy, but it should work better.
Keep in mind that the primary cause of phase change (IMO) in a nitrous system is caused by pressure differentials. The instant you activate the system the nitrous sees a large low pressure area (the inner volume of the system to the jet) and will instantly boil and phase change. Eventually the system will fill with nitrous, it will compress back down, and the inner pressure will increase and stabilize so that we can have liquid nitrous again. Once we are at this point it is my belief that pressure differentials are the major cause of phase change. The biggest problem I see (and this kind of addresses the comment of using the smallest nitrous solenoid possible) is when we go from the solenoid orifice to the outlet of the solenoid base to the distribution block. The Pro Shot solenoids have a .125" orifice (whereas the powershots and such are .087 as I remember). We go from a .125 to .25" in the base, to .140 or so through the fitting, to nearly .400" inside the distribution block. The faster we move the nitrous across these areas (ie in higher power levels) the more phase change we will see occur.
The other big problem I see is in current nozzle designs. Lets face it, pretty much everyones' nozzles are basically the same. Edlebrock has a little different fuel outlet, Shannon jenkins rounds the back of his, NX named theirs after fish.... but they are all interchangable knockoffs of each other and they all suffer from the same problem. They have a small jet at the top and a large internal area after the jet which gives the nitrous a wonderful chance to lose velocity, lose pressure, and phase change.
One last thing to keep in mind. When we talk about "liquid" nitrous, we are not talking about a real liquid at all. For our purposes it is almost always some percentage of gas. To make it even more of a PITA, even in pure liquid form the stuff is compressable so even then we don't get a constant density to play with like we do with our fuel.
#1 the mutiple solenoid idea. I do have a dream for such a system but as far as using it in the conventional constraints we currently have I don't see much gain in it at this point. Ideally what I want to see is such a system that is jetless with sequential controls to keep the Pulses (especially while its in progressive control mode) timed with the intake opening events.
My issues with the distribution block problems are minor in comparison to other system problems out there currently. My new blocks should (conceptually anyway) solve the problem. They are nothing fancy at all, they are just designed to provide equal flow and ease of installation. They also have a smooth inner orifice with the area of the main entry orifice matched to the sum of the 4 outles (told ya i'm **** about this stuff). It won't look nearly as cool as the NX showerhead thingy, but it should work better.
Keep in mind that the primary cause of phase change (IMO) in a nitrous system is caused by pressure differentials. The instant you activate the system the nitrous sees a large low pressure area (the inner volume of the system to the jet) and will instantly boil and phase change. Eventually the system will fill with nitrous, it will compress back down, and the inner pressure will increase and stabilize so that we can have liquid nitrous again. Once we are at this point it is my belief that pressure differentials are the major cause of phase change. The biggest problem I see (and this kind of addresses the comment of using the smallest nitrous solenoid possible) is when we go from the solenoid orifice to the outlet of the solenoid base to the distribution block. The Pro Shot solenoids have a .125" orifice (whereas the powershots and such are .087 as I remember). We go from a .125 to .25" in the base, to .140 or so through the fitting, to nearly .400" inside the distribution block. The faster we move the nitrous across these areas (ie in higher power levels) the more phase change we will see occur.
The other big problem I see is in current nozzle designs. Lets face it, pretty much everyones' nozzles are basically the same. Edlebrock has a little different fuel outlet, Shannon jenkins rounds the back of his, NX named theirs after fish.... but they are all interchangable knockoffs of each other and they all suffer from the same problem. They have a small jet at the top and a large internal area after the jet which gives the nitrous a wonderful chance to lose velocity, lose pressure, and phase change.
One last thing to keep in mind. When we talk about "liquid" nitrous, we are not talking about a real liquid at all. For our purposes it is almost always some percentage of gas. To make it even more of a PITA, even in pure liquid form the stuff is compressable so even then we don't get a constant density to play with like we do with our fuel.
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From: baxter, tn, usa
Re: (Phase Change Racing)
well nice to have you back dean.
my idea of running the noid per cylinder.is that i am gonna have to have
some kind of dist. block to dist. to each of the noids and like so w/the
fuel noids.the only way to get away w/that is you guessed it.a pump
and adj reg for each noid.so my idea is shot all to hell.
although it would look wicked as hell.that would be the only way to make sure they all flow the same.pump-dedicated line and adj reg for each noid.hell my gas tank would look like a dam porkupine w/a madusa hair do.hell i
would have lines coming from out of everywhere.
i also got to looking at the block and i was just gonna make the orfice in the
dist. blocks the size of the fitting that screws into the block.not sure i said
that right awh but who the hell cares.
harv
my idea of running the noid per cylinder.is that i am gonna have to have
some kind of dist. block to dist. to each of the noids and like so w/the
fuel noids.the only way to get away w/that is you guessed it.a pump
and adj reg for each noid.so my idea is shot all to hell.
although it would look wicked as hell.that would be the only way to make sure they all flow the same.pump-dedicated line and adj reg for each noid.hell my gas tank would look like a dam porkupine w/a madusa hair do.hell i
would have lines coming from out of everywhere.
i also got to looking at the block and i was just gonna make the orfice in the
dist. blocks the size of the fitting that screws into the block.not sure i said
that right awh but who the hell cares.
harv
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 365
Likes: 0
From: Spokane, WA, USA
Re: (1700anddroping)
On the individual noid idea I don't think the fuel distribution is going to be as crucial as you think. If you just ran some kind of distribution block or some kind of fuel log setup to feed each noid you will probably be ok. The thing with uneven distrubiton in standard blocks is mainly a velocity issue. At a low velocity it is going to act more like a plenum versus a forced distribution device. I don't think heat soak or anything like that will be an issue either, nor power draw for that matter. An array of the little powershot solenoids will draw about the same as a pair of pro shot solenoids anyway.
Hmmm if I just had the ends of my little nozzles machined for 1/4" NPT instead of a -3 male you could just machine the powershot noids to be bottom exit and thread them directly on top. Damn, I really don't wan to buy 16 solenoids though lol.
Hmmm if I just had the ends of my little nozzles machined for 1/4" NPT instead of a -3 male you could just machine the powershot noids to be bottom exit and thread them directly on top. Damn, I really don't wan to buy 16 solenoids though lol.
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From: baxter, tn, usa
Re: (Phase Change Racing)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Phase Change Racing »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On the individual noid idea I don't think the fuel distribution is going to be as crucial as you think. If you just ran some kind of distribution block or some kind of fuel log setup to feed each noid you will probably be ok. The thing with uneven distrubiton in standard blocks is mainly a velocity issue. At a low velocity it is going to act more like a plenum versus a forced distribution device. I don't think heat soak or anything like that will be an issue either, nor power draw for that matter. An array of the little powershot solenoids will draw about the same as a pair of pro shot solenoids anyway.
Hmmm if I just had the ends of my little nozzles machined for 1/4" NPT instead of a -3 male you could just machine the powershot noids to be bottom exit and thread them directly on top. Damn, I really don't wan to buy 16 solenoids though lol.</TD></TR></TABLE>
then doesn't that just defeat the purpose of what i set out to do.because i am
still gonna have to have a dist. block for the main lines of the fuel and nitrous.then i am just dividing that by 4."like the orginal set up but w/one noid per cylinder"
but like you said doing it that way just looks cool and you couldreally tune each cylider real percise "like the pro's do i guess.
harv
Hmmm if I just had the ends of my little nozzles machined for 1/4" NPT instead of a -3 male you could just machine the powershot noids to be bottom exit and thread them directly on top. Damn, I really don't wan to buy 16 solenoids though lol.</TD></TR></TABLE>
then doesn't that just defeat the purpose of what i set out to do.because i am
still gonna have to have a dist. block for the main lines of the fuel and nitrous.then i am just dividing that by 4."like the orginal set up but w/one noid per cylinder"
but like you said doing it that way just looks cool and you couldreally tune each cylider real percise "like the pro's do i guess.
harv
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From: baxter, tn, usa
Re: (cubish)
that would be for pcr not me......
i think i am just gonna stick to what i have and open up the orfices
in the dist. block and the fitting that screws into it.i am really thinking about
spraying the hell out of it first.....just to see what the #'s will be.
harv
i think i am just gonna stick to what i have and open up the orfices
in the dist. block and the fitting that screws into it.i am really thinking about
spraying the hell out of it first.....just to see what the #'s will be.
harv