You guys who don't like disto blocks should look into "shower head" blocks.
They're what I have for my bike system.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JohnnieChimpo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You guys who don't like disto blocks should look into "shower head" blocks.
They're what I have for my bike system.</TD></TR></TABLE>


do you have any pics or a link showing the shower head dist. blocks


harv

 

yeah im looking to upgrade my nos system too. ive been running the same one for god knows how long

 

The showerheads do work well as far as distribution goes, they are just a pita to work with and are very expensive. And they still suffer from the monster phase change problems that occur with the rest of the blocks on the market.

And yes Harv, running the individual solenoids are essentially just going to give you a standard and overcomplicaed stytem. make no mistake. That is not what the "PRO's" do hehe. That picture I posted is one of very few (if not the only one) systems like that and the car does not run the numbers. The "Wizard of NOS" claimed the car was going to dominate all of the "US Junk" equiped cars and reset all of the pro mod records. The engine **** itelsf and the car never even qualified.

Harv, don't drill your distribution blocks out more. You want less area in there, not more.

 

ok gotcha.....so i want less of an area to fill or should i say pressurize correct.


harv

 

Yes. By doing this you will allow the system to stabilize faster and deliver more "liquid" nitrous sooner. Additionally you will remove (or at least decrease) one more area where phase change occurs.

Rule of thumb: If its cold, phase change is occuring there. And contrary to what the "nitrous gives m4d intake cooling y0" crowd says, thats not a good thing. ;-)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Phase Change Racing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Rule of thumb: If its cold, phase change is occuring there. And contrary to what the "nitrous gives m4d intake cooling y0" crowd says, thats not a good thing. ;-)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ahh cmon PCR, ya gotta give me more credit then that! hahaha JK

Soo any other words keepin it smaller allows for a quick/more stable PC correct?

*Thinks real hard*

 

What it allows it to do is two fold. #1 it allows for the system pressure to stabilize faster and #2 is helps decrease phase change after stabilization.

Essentially (regarding #1) when the system is initally activated you will be getting nearly 100% gaseous nitrous coming out of the nozzle. Low pressure and low velocity assure you a wonderfully phase changed form of nitrous hehe. As nitrous flows into the system (between the noids and the jets) there is only a finite ammount flowing out of the system and the nitrous will essentially stack up. As this happens the pressure increases until the inner areas are pressurized enough to support liquid nitrous flowing through it. Which brings us to #2. At this point it is not the area that we are concerned with but the changes in area that concern us. This is where eliminating the areas that could cause pressure differentials comes into play.

If I have not said it before I will say it now. We don't want phase change. If I could eliminate it completely I would. The "cooling" effect everyone talks about is caused by the nitrous phase changing from a liquid to a gas and growing over 300x in volume (and pissing on your volumetric efficency fire). It isn't causing a more dense charge (overall) it is doing the exact opposite. Lastly, the cooling effect regarding detonation is hugely overrated and unnecessary. That is what we have proper fuel for.

Keep in mind, all of my ranting is solely my opinion based on my experience with this wonderful gas and those experiences of others I have been fortunate enough to have learned from. It really isn't as simple as I have explained but in all honesty there are few (if any) that really understand the complexities of how nitrous flows and I am certainly not one of them. Dealing with something that can be a gas, a liquid, a more dense liquid, a solid (yes is possible and its lots of fun), and relatively any combination therein makes most of what we do an educated guess at best.

 

dean, check your PMs please, questions around having you plumb a manifold for me.

 

Sorry I didn't get to it sooner but I had a stupid popup blocker running and I didn't see the messages. Reply sent.

 

not a problem. I'll try to get some time to call you and discuss other things I may need.

 

ok got a question when using a nitrous kit for a turbo street car what nitrous system do you use direct port or single fogger and why.

 

The fact that its a turbo car really doesn't matter. It all just comes down to what you want to do with the car now and what your plans are for the future. If you never plan on going above the 75-100HP level, a single nozzle will probably be all you need. Granted there are some definite advantages on a direct port setup even at the 75HP level, but you can get by with a single nozzle just fine if desired.

Don't buy into all this "you need this (insert system name here) sytem that provides maximum cooling for less detonation. Its a bunch of crap! This entire "cooling effect" thing everyone is so wound up on is just simply rediculous. You want to know how to eliminate detonation? RUN THE PROPER FUEL.

It all comes down to what you want to spend. If you are willing to drop the $200 or so it costs to bump up to a direct port system, DO IT. You will have a superior system that will give you a lot more room to grow in the future.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Phase Change Racing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Don't buy into all this "you need this (insert system name here) sytem that provides maximum cooling for less detonation. Its a bunch of crap! This entire "cooling effect" thing everyone is so wound up on is just simply rediculous. You want to know how to eliminate detonation? RUN THE PROPER FUEL.

</TD></TR></TABLE>


i have been saying this from the begining DEAN.


harv

 

ok now that im learning a little more about phase change... i have a question.
is phase change the reason that spray makes more power on FI apps?
becuase if its a pressure difference from noid to intake manifold that creates an open area for phase change to occur. FI apps would have less of a pressure difference present. or is this too minute? 16psi of boost vs 1100psi of nitrous....
i guess my actual question is,
why does nitrous actually make near double power on forced induction apps?

 

damn good question

 

just out of the blue......how much more power does one make when using n2o to spray the intercooler....does that help with detonation????

and with that question...would it be a good idea to have a separate system to spray the IC and another to spray in the engine???

 

ive seen ic spray work like a dry shot depending on where your filter is located.

 

please explain..i'm not following you

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by formby &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just out of the blue......how much more power does one make when using n2o to spray the intercooler....does that help with detonation????

and with that question...would it be a good idea to have a separate system to spray the IC and another to spray in the engine???</TD></TR></TABLE>

even on pump gas, most street cars are not going to be knock limited, meaning you will be able to run the proper amount of ignition timing to create peak torque without detonating. if you're having detonation problems, you have other issues that need to be addresed before you start thinking about the spray.

anyone that has an IC sprayer with intentions creating more power has obviously not heard of a boost controller. nitrous has no business in your vehicle unless it's headed for the combustion chamber..........or leaving it i suppose

IMO, IC sprayer = ricey show piece.

oh, and greetings from Iraq Dean

 

i see what you're saying....however my platform is going to be a track only drag car...would that make a diff...??

 

nitrous spray on yoru FMIC is junk IMO. hwo people are getting gains is by the nitrous going through the FMIC and being ingested by the turbo as free air, thereby giving gains. If you want nitrous. go direct port.

hell i'm turbo and i'm going to send off my IM to dean for direct port. while i'll only be at 75 to 100 shot. that mixed with 30psi should give me some fun times.

 

Ahhh some good conversation here. First off. Great to hear from ya Jake, its good to hear everything is ok over on the other side of the world.

Ok as far as forced induction is concerned with nitrous and all that.... #1 you shouldn't be making even close to double the HP or you have something wrong somewhere. I do belive that forced induction cars do benefit a bit more from nitrous but I have not done enough research on the reason to really say one way or the other why that is. I think part of it is that turbo cars benefit from the extreme increase in exhaust energy that nitrous causes, I think that the "cooling" effect does come into play in engines with +200* intake temps to a certain degree, and I think that the added oxygen content of a "good" tune helps a lot as well. One thing I have seen on the dyno is that supercharged vehicles simply choke out with an overly fuel rich nitrous tune and make little or no power gain. Turbo cars, on the other hand, seem to take just about whatever you throw in them. This is all an area where I just don't have that much experience so I digress from my point.

One thing I can say is that if you take a good system, set it up properly, and run a good tune it will make damn near the same power weather it be supercharged, turbocharged or NA. Obviously the BSFC of any given engine is going to be the determining factor of how much power a given engine will make with that tune but as a general rule of thumb I think they all act similar as far as max power is concerned.

As far as those sprayers for the FMIC goes, they do work (I have seen 40WHP gains with them on a stock SRT-4). But you are spraying 200HP worth of nitrous in front of the car and some of that nitrous is going to make its way back into the intake so the ammount of power gained from the IC being cooler is pretty arguable. I'd be willing to argue that the power gains from doing with with liquid c02 would be almost nothing (if not a loss).

In all honesty, if you have a drag car and are running an air/air intercooler, you are already heading down the wrong road. Air/water is where its at on the strip, hands down.

Man, what an awsome thread this has become.

 

ok well what causes a 20-30 shot to gain 50+whp on a boosted car

 

Do they make nitrous tunes that small? My windshield washer squirter sprays more than that.

I honestly don't know, I have not experienced that drastic of a jump before. I've never run a given tune on a NA motor and then run the same tune on a turbo motor to see what, if any, difference there was. I think the biggest reason you see a jump in power on a turbo car is mainly on cars running MBC's and the boost creep that ensues on the bottle. My poor little turbo makes 18psi on the bottle (regardless of the boost setting) with the wastegate wide open. There is just too much exhaust energy going through the poor lil guy. This is why my 80HP tune (that is horribly rich) makes around 120hp at the wheels.

I would venture to argue that the majority of the power difference on a Forced Induction car with nitrous would be found external to the nitrous system.