10 sec NOS setup?...
Joined: Nov 2005
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Hi guys. I havent messed with nitrous yet, but I want to spray my b18c... I was hoping some of you guys could provide some helpful insight...
I have stock rods/arp bolts with PCT (CTR) pistons. I have a P72 head no milling with a conetic .054" headgasket to bring the compression down a bit. The head is ported with ferrera valvetrain and jun stg III cams. Before I put the bigger JUN cams in it had a CTR cam and pumped out 300psi across the board.
Anyway, I'm trying to determine how much nitrous I can safely run on this car with a good tune. Any input? I am about to acquire a NOS wet kit in a trade and I would like to put it to good use...
I have stock rods/arp bolts with PCT (CTR) pistons. I have a P72 head no milling with a conetic .054" headgasket to bring the compression down a bit. The head is ported with ferrera valvetrain and jun stg III cams. Before I put the bigger JUN cams in it had a CTR cam and pumped out 300psi across the board.
Anyway, I'm trying to determine how much nitrous I can safely run on this car with a good tune. Any input? I am about to acquire a NOS wet kit in a trade and I would like to put it to good use...
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 365
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From: Spokane, WA, USA
Re: (nuclearhappines)
Nuke,
Rule 1 of nitrous, don't tune by AF from the beginning. Af for our purposes is merely a reference number. What we want to do is first develop a good solid tune on the bench for 5.5:1 N/F or 5:1 if you want to play it really safe. Once we have our ratio down on the bench we move to the track testing. The bench tune gives us a very good platform to start off with and a tune that will need little tuning. For most people I just leave it at this point as there is little use in spending weeks at the track to pick up another few HP out of a tune when we can just re-flow the system and bump the power up that way. But lets say we want to go the extra mile and develop a badass tune. We'll start by adding a degree of timing (or two) back in from the factory recomended retard and see if we pick up any MPH. We will do this incrementally until we do not gain any more MPH and then back it off a degree for good measure (keep in mind we are also keeping a very watchful eye on the blueing line of our plugs). Next we start to lean the tune down a little more slowly taking away fuel pressure pass after pass (3psi increments for most EFI guys is about right), keeping a watchful eye on our plugs (and swapping them out every pass). Once we have a hydrocarbon ring that is nearly fully formed but with no additional color on the upper porcelain we are about where I like to be. Keep in mind we are also watching our MPH here as well, if we lean it out a notch and it doesn't pick up any MPH, we throw that notch of fuel pressure back in and call it a day. Now we look at our fancy wbo2 and see where our AF is. From here on out we know what our particular engine combo likes and can shoot for that AF number in the future (usually we shoot for the rich side of that ratio and take baby steps the rest of the way to develop the next tune).
As for how much nitrous can you run on pump gas? As much as you want if you take enough timing out but you will quickly approach a "plateau" where you are not going to gain any more power. If you stick with the OEM timing retard you are probably looking at a 75-100HP tune being rougly as far as you want to go as a very general rule of thumb.
Rule 1 of nitrous, don't tune by AF from the beginning. Af for our purposes is merely a reference number. What we want to do is first develop a good solid tune on the bench for 5.5:1 N/F or 5:1 if you want to play it really safe. Once we have our ratio down on the bench we move to the track testing. The bench tune gives us a very good platform to start off with and a tune that will need little tuning. For most people I just leave it at this point as there is little use in spending weeks at the track to pick up another few HP out of a tune when we can just re-flow the system and bump the power up that way. But lets say we want to go the extra mile and develop a badass tune. We'll start by adding a degree of timing (or two) back in from the factory recomended retard and see if we pick up any MPH. We will do this incrementally until we do not gain any more MPH and then back it off a degree for good measure (keep in mind we are also keeping a very watchful eye on the blueing line of our plugs). Next we start to lean the tune down a little more slowly taking away fuel pressure pass after pass (3psi increments for most EFI guys is about right), keeping a watchful eye on our plugs (and swapping them out every pass). Once we have a hydrocarbon ring that is nearly fully formed but with no additional color on the upper porcelain we are about where I like to be. Keep in mind we are also watching our MPH here as well, if we lean it out a notch and it doesn't pick up any MPH, we throw that notch of fuel pressure back in and call it a day. Now we look at our fancy wbo2 and see where our AF is. From here on out we know what our particular engine combo likes and can shoot for that AF number in the future (usually we shoot for the rich side of that ratio and take baby steps the rest of the way to develop the next tune).
As for how much nitrous can you run on pump gas? As much as you want if you take enough timing out but you will quickly approach a "plateau" where you are not going to gain any more power. If you stick with the OEM timing retard you are probably looking at a 75-100HP tune being rougly as far as you want to go as a very general rule of thumb.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,167
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From: baxter, tn, usa
Re: (RMS)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RMS »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">?missing the intent of that?
i was simply answering what i we feel safe tuning upper levels of n2o with 91 oct.</TD></TR></TABLE>
that was not directed towards you........
i was simply answering what i we feel safe tuning upper levels of n2o with 91 oct.</TD></TR></TABLE>
that was not directed towards you........
... i was confused. not uncommon.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,167
Likes: 1
From: baxter, tn, usa
Re: (JohnnieChimpo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JohnnieChimpo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What engagement RPM do you guys feel would be safe for a stock bottom end GSR?</TD></TR></TABLE>
most of the time W O T...
harv
most of the time W O T...
harv
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,243
Likes: 0
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Re: (1700anddroping)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1700anddroping »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
most of the time W O T...
harv</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wow for the guy that everyone thinks is such a nitrous expert, what a stupid thing to say.
Obviously at WFO, at what RPM was the question.
most of the time W O T...
harv</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wow for the guy that everyone thinks is such a nitrous expert, what a stupid thing to say.
Obviously at WFO, at what RPM was the question.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
Re: (JohnnieChimpo)
for a guy that wants help you're acting like an ***.
he misread, give him a break.
spraying below 2800-3000 rpms is asking for trouble. the nx manual says not below 3k. noone i know sprays below 2800, and the only one i know below 3k is him. It's a built ls1 with stage1 150 and second stage 300 shot. sprays at 3k, revs to 6400, cuts off spray at 6200.
3k is what i would do for any 4cyl but what do i know.
but from what i keep reading the manual is made to give you damn near foolproof settings. the jets will run you a little rich, the ignition timing is too much, all these things yield less power. so who knows. but on any car of mine i wouldnt spray below 3k, but i would spray out the hole.
he misread, give him a break.
spraying below 2800-3000 rpms is asking for trouble. the nx manual says not below 3k. noone i know sprays below 2800, and the only one i know below 3k is him. It's a built ls1 with stage1 150 and second stage 300 shot. sprays at 3k, revs to 6400, cuts off spray at 6200.
3k is what i would do for any 4cyl but what do i know.
but from what i keep reading the manual is made to give you damn near foolproof settings. the jets will run you a little rich, the ignition timing is too much, all these things yield less power. so who knows. but on any car of mine i wouldnt spray below 3k, but i would spray out the hole.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 365
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From: Spokane, WA, USA
Re: (JohnnieChimpo)
For something like the GSR i'd say no lower than 3000RPM as an absolute limit, I personally would try to stay above 3500 or so. I don't know what it will do for traction (a lot of it depending on the power level) but 3500 should be about right safety wise. I've run my little 80HP tune on my daytona as low as 2000RPM before just playing around at the track and had no problem. It was the coolest burnout i've ever done, unfortunatly I was racing someone at the time lol.
Re: (JohnnieChimpo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JohnnieChimpo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Wow for the guy that everyone thinks is such a nitrous expert, what a stupid thing to say.
Obviously at WFO, at what RPM was the question.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Its becuse of stupid ******** like you that make it hard the people who want to learn stuff on honda tech. obviously you are the stupid one for asking that question cause just about any nitrous kit will say in the instructions that you shouldnt activate N20 before 3000 rpms but i guess you cant read so its ok we forgive you this time dont let it happen again.
Wow for the guy that everyone thinks is such a nitrous expert, what a stupid thing to say.
Obviously at WFO, at what RPM was the question.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Its becuse of stupid ******** like you that make it hard the people who want to learn stuff on honda tech. obviously you are the stupid one for asking that question cause just about any nitrous kit will say in the instructions that you shouldnt activate N20 before 3000 rpms but i guess you cant read so its ok we forgive you this time dont let it happen again.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,167
Likes: 1
From: baxter, tn, usa
Re: (JohnnieChimpo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JohnnieChimpo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Wow for the guy that everyone thinks is such a nitrous expert, what a stupid thing to say.
Obviously at WFO, at what RPM was the question.</TD></TR></TABLE>
where do i begin?I HAVE NEVER CLAIMED TO BE A DAM EXPERT..so don't
try to put words in my mouth.i have sprayed at 2k also.but like pcr said
nothing but wheel spin.it depends on what shot you are running also as to where how low you can launch w/the gas.at the track...i launch that mf off the floor.that is why i pull the 60's i do 1.52's and this is a street car.
SO TO BETTER HELP YOU...TELL ME WHAT SHOT YOU PLAN ON RUNNING
AND I WILL GET YOU PRETTY CLOSE TO WHERE YOU NEED TO LAUNCH
W/THE GAS......also let me know what slicks or street tires you are running and what size.
fella's you should be proud of me.....i did not go off like i usually do
i am in a pretty good mood...although my dam legs are killing me from the
work out yesterday.
harv
Wow for the guy that everyone thinks is such a nitrous expert, what a stupid thing to say.
Obviously at WFO, at what RPM was the question.</TD></TR></TABLE>
where do i begin?I HAVE NEVER CLAIMED TO BE A DAM EXPERT..so don't
try to put words in my mouth.i have sprayed at 2k also.but like pcr said
nothing but wheel spin.it depends on what shot you are running also as to where how low you can launch w/the gas.at the track...i launch that mf off the floor.that is why i pull the 60's i do 1.52's and this is a street car.
SO TO BETTER HELP YOU...TELL ME WHAT SHOT YOU PLAN ON RUNNING
AND I WILL GET YOU PRETTY CLOSE TO WHERE YOU NEED TO LAUNCH
W/THE GAS......also let me know what slicks or street tires you are running and what size.
fella's you should be proud of me.....i did not go off like i usually do
i am in a pretty good mood...although my dam legs are killing me from the
work out yesterday.
harv
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,638
Likes: 0
From: Altamonte Springs/Orlando, Florida, USA
Re: (1700anddroping)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1700anddroping »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">where do i begin?I HAVE NEVER CLAIMED TO BE A DAM EXPERT..so don't
try to put words in my mouth.i have sprayed at 2k also.but like pcr said
nothing but wheel spin.it depends on what shot you are running also as to where how low you can launch w/the gas.at the track...i launch that mf off the floor.that is why i pull the 60's i do 1.52's and this is a street car.
SO TO BETTER HELP YOU...TELL ME WHAT SHOT YOU PLAN ON RUNNING
AND I WILL GET YOU PRETTY CLOSE TO WHERE YOU NEED TO LAUNCH
W/THE GAS......also let me know what slicks or street tires you are running and what size.
fella's you should be proud of me.....i did not go off like i usually do
i am in a pretty good mood...although my dam legs are killing me from the
work out yesterday.
harv</TD></TR></TABLE>
Quit net bitching, he ment that you think to seem everyone is an expert because you like to call me that on just about everything I say to you haha.
P.S Jay-z doesn't rock gold teeth.
try to put words in my mouth.i have sprayed at 2k also.but like pcr said
nothing but wheel spin.it depends on what shot you are running also as to where how low you can launch w/the gas.at the track...i launch that mf off the floor.that is why i pull the 60's i do 1.52's and this is a street car.
SO TO BETTER HELP YOU...TELL ME WHAT SHOT YOU PLAN ON RUNNING
AND I WILL GET YOU PRETTY CLOSE TO WHERE YOU NEED TO LAUNCH
W/THE GAS......also let me know what slicks or street tires you are running and what size.
fella's you should be proud of me.....i did not go off like i usually do
i am in a pretty good mood...although my dam legs are killing me from the
work out yesterday.
harv</TD></TR></TABLE>
Quit net bitching, he ment that you think to seem everyone is an expert because you like to call me that on just about everything I say to you haha.
P.S Jay-z doesn't rock gold teeth.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,167
Likes: 1
From: baxter, tn, usa
Re: (MidShipCivic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MidShipCivic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Quit net bitching, he ment that you think to seem everyone is an expert because you like to call me that on just about everything I say to you haha.
P.S Jay-z doesn't rock gold teeth. </TD></TR></TABLE>
because you seem to always have something negative to say about
everything in this thread......yet you wanted to talk the **** THEN WATCH FROM
THE SIDE LINES.....
harv
Modified by 1700anddroping at 8:36 PM 11/6/2005
Quit net bitching, he ment that you think to seem everyone is an expert because you like to call me that on just about everything I say to you haha.
P.S Jay-z doesn't rock gold teeth.
</TD></TR></TABLE>because you seem to always have something negative to say about
everything in this thread......yet you wanted to talk the **** THEN WATCH FROM
THE SIDE LINES.....
harv
Modified by 1700anddroping at 8:36 PM 11/6/2005
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,638
Likes: 0
From: Altamonte Springs/Orlando, Florida, USA
All the negative things you seem to bring out by guessing all the time really common cut it out.
Your taking things too seriously guy relax, the Jay-Z remarks was a joke since your kids wanted you to be him.
Threatening people on the net is an all time low, you'd slap me? Rofl. You've never seen me in your life.
I know more than you think.
Now for a short commercial break.
Your taking things too seriously guy relax, the Jay-Z remarks was a joke since your kids wanted you to be him.
Threatening people on the net is an all time low, you'd slap me? Rofl. You've never seen me in your life.
I know more than you think.
Now for a short commercial break.
hey midshitcivic ooops I mean midshipcivic please tell me why are you ******* with people. if you have nothing to offer to this post simple dont post people in here are actually tring to learn something. Dumbass
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,638
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From: Altamonte Springs/Orlando, Florida, USA
Re: (ghostofnyc)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ghostofnyc »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey midshitcivic ooops I mean midshipcivic please tell me why are you ******* with people. if you have nothing to offer to this post simple dont post people in here are actually tring to learn something. Dumbass</TD></TR></TABLE>
Oh I'm sorry are you trying to offend me? Go buy your own forum thug, since your're in FL you should come beat my *** since your on his nuts.
Oh I'm sorry are you trying to offend me? Go buy your own forum thug, since your're in FL you should come beat my *** since your on his nuts.
yo son you need to be easy with all that **** cause you dont know me. im not in here making treats you are the bitch *** that thinks hes hard im not coming to harv defense hes a grown *** man he can handle his own. all i said was shut the expletive up with all the tick tack **** people are tring to learn **** in here. and so what im in FL if you feel froggy bitch jump all you got to do is get on I-4 and come to tampa.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,638
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From: Altamonte Springs/Orlando, Florida, USA
Re: (ghostofnyc)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ghostofnyc »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yo son you need to be easy with all that **** cause you dont know me. im not in here making treats you are the bitch *** that thinks hes hard im not coming to harv defense hes a grown *** man he can handle his own. all i said was shut the expletive up with all the tick tack **** people are tring to learn **** in here. and so what im in FL if you feel froggy bitch jump all you got to do is get on I-4 and come to tampa.</TD></TR></TABLE>
E-thug OMGWTFBBQ VTECH sos!
You dont order people here you're not special.
Yo yo son wasn't it you insulting me first with mid****civic?!? I never said a thing to you since can't take what you dish out, you need to be else wheres.
I'm not contributing? Yeah mm k. I'm the one who pointed out something about nitrous related initially posting in this thread pal if your're so stuck on that.
Nice grammar you must be in the same grade as 1700 take the threats to PM if your gonna send some more .
Close this E-Thug thread haha I love this place.
E-thug OMGWTFBBQ VTECH sos!
You dont order people here you're not special.
Yo yo son wasn't it you insulting me first with mid****civic?!? I never said a thing to you since can't take what you dish out, you need to be else wheres.
I'm not contributing? Yeah mm k. I'm the one who pointed out something about nitrous related initially posting in this thread pal if your're so stuck on that.
Nice grammar you must be in the same grade as 1700 take the threats to PM if your gonna send some more
.Close this E-Thug thread haha I love this place.