the major problem is finding a kit i like. do you have any recommendations for a DP kit(150-200shot)????

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D-tuned &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

thanks, its a street car. i want to add 150 to 200shot to go with my turbo. my turbo is good for 500whp, so instead of buy another turbo, i'm going to put some nitrous on it instead of getting a bigger turbo.</TD></TR></TABLE>


well now that you said it is a street car....unless you have an ems that
can flip from map to map it will be really hard to do a dp dry set up.


example: just turbo @8k,then you have turbo and your dry shot,which will
need more fuel...but when your not spraying you will have to be on a totally
different map.

i am all about going big "trust me on this" hehehe....but say 200 on top
500+ on the streets "you will get beat by a bicycle" you will do nothing but spin
maybe even at the track.but you will have a better chance of traction,because
you will be running slicks.

i would go small on the street...to bring the turbo on line quicker to get the
advantage so to speak.that is if you don't break loose.but at the track ****
goes ***** to the wall.


harv

 

thanks for the info . My motor is fully built from top to bottom. I'm running the aem ems. its has it fuel and timing map for nitrous. I didnt plan on using the nitrous on the street. one of my goals with this setup is to run 10's and my car is heavy as ****. I'm going to use the nitrous for the extra hp's i need to accomplish that goal. my previous numbers on a stock block is in my sig. becuase the aem ems gives me complete control when using nitrous is why i got the idea to run a DP dry kit and use the aem to handle the fueling needs. I've been trying to find a kit i like but i'm not having any luck. I'm at the point now where i think it would be best to piece together my own kit. i'm hoping to have the nitrous installed by next weekend.

 

here is a pic of my set-up when i was installing the motor and turbo

 

Remember, KISS. Yes, Pat Musi (and Mike Moran) runs his systems dry like this but he is also running mid low 6's on DOT tires with god knows how many stages. On his setup (and this is actually an older attempt we are speking of) he gained a slight competitve edge but we are talking about a guy spraying in excess of 800HP worth of nitrous.

On a street car with a 200shot your are just overcomplicating a very simple system. Unless you flow the system yourself to determine the lbs/min nitrous flow and match the known fuel values up to this number you are just kidding yourself. At that level your AEM system has NO business doing anything with the nitrous system other than telling it when to turn on and off based on TPS and RPM ONLY! No o2 feedback, no fuel pressure sensors, no fuel "trim".... just let the nitrous system do its job and if you seek more power put in bigger jets. Thats all there is to it.

Please don't take this like I am flaming you in any way. I am just trying to keep you from overcomplicating a very very simple system (and maybe save you a piston or two in the process).

Glad to see this thread resurrected.

 

thanks for the info i understand exactly what you mean. so what kind of DP kit do you recomment for 150-200shot?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Phase Change Racing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Remember, KISS. Yes, Pat Musi (and Mike Moran) runs his systems dry like this but he is also running mid low 6's on DOT tires with god knows how many stages. On his setup (and this is actually an older attempt we are speking of) he gained a slight competitve edge but we are talking about a guy spraying in excess of 800HP worth of nitrous.

On a street car with a 200shot your are just overcomplicating a very simple system. Unless you flow the system yourself to determine the lbs/min nitrous flow and match the known fuel values up to this number you are just kidding yourself. At that level your AEM system has NO business doing anything with the nitrous system other than telling it when to turn on and off based on TPS and RPM ONLY! No o2 feedback, no fuel pressure sensors, no fuel "trim".... just let the nitrous system do its job and if you seek more power put in bigger jets. Thats all there is to it.

Please don't take this like I am flaming you in any way. I am just trying to keep you from overcomplicating a very very simple system (and maybe save you a piston or two in the process).

Glad to see this thread resurrected.

</TD></TR></TABLE>


more like a motor

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D-tuned &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanks for the info i understand exactly what you mean. so what kind of DP kit do you recomment for 150-200shot? </TD></TR></TABLE>

just get a dp kit and the JETS WILL DO THE REST.BUT PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A DEDICATED LINE AND PUMP FOR THE NITROUS SET UP ALSO A ADJ. REG.
YOU WILL BE GLAD YOU DID IT THIS WAY.


phasechange: my partner in NITROUS HEHE....how's things going for you
buddy.

 

for being differant.....I did this back in 2000 with a duel carb set up and 130 shot and ran 11.01...its nice to see a good nos setup once and awhile

 

i want to hear how many people on this thread have actually DYNOED a Honda with N2O that nearly doubled whp on the juice. and had it live through HUNDREDS of pounds of N2O. 200 whp of n2o on a honda is a BIG shot.
we've done a few and i can say that computer control had a lot to do with hp and longevity.
when simply bench flowing a wet set up you are setting up the ratio of #s n2o to #s fuel... also known as air:fuel ratio and tuned nicely with a wideband. static flowing doesn't see the effects of engine dynamics nor can it adjust to them. the ecu control also allows for variable timing retard throughout the rpm range. wet works, but i think it is a mistake to say that technology can't improve it in dry form.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RMS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i want to hear how many people on this thread have actually DYNOED a Honda with N2O that nearly doubled whp on the juice. and had it live through HUNDREDS of pounds of N2O. 200 whp of n2o on a honda is a BIG shot.
we've done a few and i can say that computer control had a lot to do with hp and longevity.
when simply bench flowing a wet set up you are setting up the ratio of #s n2o to #s fuel... also known as air:fuel ratio and tuned nicely with a wideband. static flowing doesn't see the effects of engine dynamics nor can it adjust to them. the ecu control also allows for variable timing retard throughout the rpm range. [ wet works, but i think it is a mistake to say that technology can't improve it in dry form.] </TD></TR></TABLE>


for a street car it makes no since at all...unless you have deep pockets and
some tricked out ems.WHEN YOU TAKE TIMING YOU TAKE AWAY POWER.but i am not saying don't retard JUST NOT AS MUCH and one will see and feel the difference.

200 is big...but you can go bigger and still have a motor.i don't know if
you have looked back thru this thread.but cubish spray'd a 300 dp
and i myself have pushed the limits to 400 so far.i don't know very
many street driven honda's pulling 1.52 60's or any at all for that matter.but
i did not just throw it on there and say look at me go.it took alot of trial and
error as you already know this.

this car is still going today,but i have taken the shot down.he is tired
of filling bottles and 3-4 good hits and @1300 psi bp things happen pretty
quick.in my opion and again this is just my opion.w/a dry kit it may atomize
better but that is not a given.as pcr knows i keep it simple but VERY EFFECTIVE.


i am glad this thread has started to come back around.


harv

 

I NEVER SAID I WAS GOING TO USE THE NITROUS ON THE STREET. yes it is a street car. I HAVE NO INTENTIONS OF USING THE NITROUS ON THE STREET. ITS FOR TRACK USE ONLY. i will make more than enough power on the turbo for street. My turbo is only capable of about 450-500whp. i decided to use nitrous to get another 100-200whp. The nitrous will help me accomplish my goals for this car.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1700anddroping &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

for a street car it makes no since at all...unless you have deep pockets and
some tricked out ems.
harv</TD></TR></TABLE>

I do have a tricked out ems and i have the funds to do it correctly and the right way.

 

i agree that timing retard can kill the power... another reason i like the ecu control is that you can reduce timing in the max torque area (where most big street setups will be knock limited) and bring it back in on the top rpm range where the engine can handle it.

on the fuel end: i've never seen a honda with direct port wet display a flat air:fuel curve. every one i've seen runs leaner in the lower rpm range than it does at the top (not saying LEAN, just leaner). unless partial pulls are run during tuning to see the plugs in the lower rpm range most guys will tune plugs to the top end... that CAN lead to lean onset and eventual/immediate damage. the ecu allows you to linearize the a/f. we've even used ecu control to fix the fuel curve in dp/wet systems for a few people who were set on keeping their dp/wet showy system.
which leads to another point: with dry ecu controlled systems it is very easy to absolutely hide the kit. we did one for a friend that dynoed 270whp (dynojet) on a bone stock b16... and cali ref'd the swap without removing the kit

imho if a car is already fuel injected and software exists to control the n2o then the setup become less complicated and has fewer variables. i also like the guarantee of fuel reaching the cylinder before n2o. and no secondary fuel pump/pressure regulator. plus if anything happens to contaminate the system and something ends up plugging a jet or a solenoid fails then the failure = rich ... granted, nothing should ever get into the system and well installed solenoids should never fail, but few customers will dedicate the necesarry time to the maintainance that a big shot deserves.

we've done big direct port wet, but i am always more comfortable with the ecu in control for tuning. remember, i'm not saying the other way is bad so please don't think i'm bashing it.

 

my nitrous car made 483 ripping the tires on the dyno and the motor held up very well...Harv i too was pulling 1.50 60's

i like being able to change jets on the fuel side if i have to. it makes it easier to tune...weather changes at the track or what not...i can step up or down on the jets

 

i have a question regarding nitrous and i didnt want to create a new thread for an easily answered question. On a turbo motor it is well known that if you spray a 50 shot you'll gain much more than 50whp or 50 ft-lbs, it would be more like 80 whp/ft-lbs. Would you need to adjust the fuel jet so it doesnt go lean? or go with the recommended jets that correspond with each other for a 50 shot? I know that it sounds convaluted but i am spraying on my new motor when i go to the track, i just want to make sure the fuel is there. BTW ido have a wideband but i would rather not make a pull and have the fuel off and blow something up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D-tuned &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I NEVER SAID I WAS GOING TO USE THE NITROUS ON THE STREET. yes it is a street car. I HAVE NO INTENTIONS OF USING THE NITROUS ON THE STREET. ITS FOR TRACK USE ONLY. i will make more than enough power on the turbo for street. My turbo is only capable of about 450-500whp. i decided to use nitrous to get another 100-200whp. The nitrous will help me accomplish my goals for this car.


I do have a tricked out ems and i have the funds to do it correctly and the right way. </TD></TR></TABLE>


i just hate to see your motor scattered....it would also seem like the nitrous
would be more dangerous by itself and NO ROOM FOR ERA...WHEN GOING BIG.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Soccerking3000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have a question regarding nitrous and i didnt want to create a new thread for an easily answered question. On a turbo motor it is well known that if you spray a 50 shot you'll gain much more than 50whp or 50 ft-lbs, it would be more like 80 whp/ft-lbs. Would you need to adjust the fuel jet so it doesnt go lean? or go with the recommended jets that correspond with each other for a 50 shot? I know that it sounds convaluted but i am spraying on my new motor when i go to the track, i just want to make sure the fuel is there. BTW ido have a wideband but i would rather not make a pull and have the fuel off and blow something up.</TD></TR></TABLE>


if you are running a wet kit....the nitrous will have it own fuel and the turbo
set up has it's own fuel supply.you would not have to do anything on the turbo set
unless the temps are dramatic"some one correct me if i am wrong".

but on the nitrous it is a different story.

example: you run slower in the day then you do at night because of the temps.
that means you would run a little rich.you can do 2 things.

1-advance timing my favorite"but be careful"

2-back the fuel jet down


usually the majarity will back the fuel jet.because they think advancing is
bad.IT IS IF THE FUEL IS NOT THERE.


harv

 

but since the lets say you have the 50 shot fuel pill in there, its supposed to add enough fuel for 50 hp, but sinc its on a turbo vehicle the nitrous will add 80 hp lets say but the fuel will only be enough for 50, is my logic correct? So i would have to go with a fuel jet that is for like a 75 or 80 shot of nitrous?

edit: this is for direct port as well

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Soccerking3000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but since the lets say you have the 50 shot fuel pill in there, its supposed to add enough fuel for 50 hp, but sinc its on a turbo vehicle the nitrous will add 80 hp lets say but the fuel will only be enough for 50, is my logic correct? So i would have to go with a fuel jet that is for like a 75 or 80 shot of nitrous?

edit: this is for direct port as well</TD></TR></TABLE>


50 shot on a dp hell that is only 12+ hp per.that is not even worth it.
what you forget is the extra fuel that is being dumped in for the boost.fuel
is what makes the power and that is my guess where the extra hp comes from.


if you are indeed spraying 50 on a dp.you HAVE SOME VERY SMALL JETS
IN THERE....a dp kit usually starts out at 120,thats about 30 per.


you are worrying your self over nothing.hell you could spray a 50 dry
and still be ok.

 

that was just an example i plan on running 100+ shot

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Soccerking3000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that was just an example i plan on running 100+ shot</TD></TR></TABLE>

and that my friend is why nitrous has it's own fuel supply.SO YOU CAN
TUNE IT ACCORDINGLY.

the extra fuel from the turbo and the extra fuel from the nitrous
======== your extra hp that is created.


if the nitrous does not have enought fuel...THAT IS THE TUNER'S FAULT.

all the turbo cars i have ever seen run just a tad on the rich side
"sweet spot" so when nitrous is added in the mix...it gives the motor
a better nitrous to fuel ratio meaning more hp.

 

i dont understand what you mean its own fuel supply? If its a wet kit doesnt it automatically have its own supply of fuel?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Soccerking3000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont understand what you mean its own fuel supply? If its a wet kit doesnt it automatically have its own supply of fuel?</TD></TR></TABLE>

what i mean is. run a dedicated line and adj to do it right.you can not reg
the same fuel line w/2 different pressures.


here is an example: sx 1khp pump for the turbo set up"external"
then just use the factory set up,but swtich the pump "255 wally"
and just tee both returns together and your done.


but you will have to sump the tank,but that's no biggie.

 

ok i gotcha, the only advantage of this though is change the fuel pressure between the two though correct? Its not like i am making 500+whp here but i think thats a tad bit overkill for what i need to do, i dont want to buy a new turbo that can support more, i'd rather just throw on some nitrous (tuned properly) for track occasions.

 

Sweet setup I thought about doing this I was spraying a 75 shot in a CRX running 12.80s and pulled the motor to build it but wimped out because no one was spraying such a big shot and built it for turbo. Quick question I know heat was mentioned earlier in the thread has anyone tried methanol Injection with a nitrous set up?