like said above.

if you dont have it now, wait a year or so.
with the gov't making people manufacture more and more flex fuel vehicles, the e85 stations have to be built

 

so whats a conservative amount of compression to run for E85? 13:1 ?

 

if anybody in the NY/NJ area is interested in some. let me know.. I cant get alot, but ican get some if anybody wants to do some dyno comparisons etc...

 

I've heard that the guys running "methanol" we're using 11.5:1 compression, and 35-40 lbs of boost... I guess for ethanol it all depends on what size turbo,and how many pounds of boost... What kind of R&D are you willing to do for the Honda-Tech community?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GrinderGuy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if anybody in the NY/NJ area is interested in some. let me know.. I cant get alot, but ican get some if anybody wants to do some dyno comparisons etc...</TD></TR></TABLE>

What about CT? I'm about 45mins from NYC. PLs let me know

 

http://www.e85refueling.com/

see if theres a pump near you

 

i was talking to someoen this weekend, he was sain one of the main reasons e85 is so cheap (currently) is because its manufacturing is highly subsidized.

anyone else have any info on this?
id hate to be tuned for e85, then when the subsidizees run dry, im paying $8 a gal for e85

same guy (who i respect as being intelligent ) said it takes alot of energy to make e85.
he wasnt sure exactly how much, but he said " if your 5 lbs of coal (nonrenewable) to make 1 gallon of e85, we arent really getting anywhere)

just something to think about and to revive this thread after the holiday weekend

 

Here's a good article to read about the in-efficiency of e85. http://www.businessweek.com/au...9.htm

After reading this article it's hard to think it will last in the long run. Really all it seems to be is an attempt to reduce dependency on foreign oil that may not really pan out..

but then again, at least in the mean time, it's a pretty cool option to race gas on the street.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kelly. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i was talking to someoen this weekend, he was sain one of the main reasons e85 is so cheap (currently) is because its manufacturing is highly subsidized.

anyone else have any info on this?
id hate to be tuned for e85, then when the subsidizees run dry, im paying $8 a gal for e85

same guy (who i respect as being intelligent ) said it takes alot of energy to make e85.
he wasnt sure exactly how much, but he said " if your 5 lbs of coal (nonrenewable) to make 1 gallon of e85, we arent really getting anywhere)

just something to think about and to revive this thread after the holiday weekend </TD></TR></TABLE>My Professor actually told me the same thing today...if it takes fossil fuel to make, and its already subisidze so the price is questionable, and if im not mistaken needs more, as far as volume to have the same amount of energy as gas...then how is it efficent?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DIRep972 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here's a good article to read about the in-efficiency of e85. http://www.businessweek.com/au...9.htm

After reading this article it's hard to think it will last in the long run. Really all it seems to be is an attempt to reduce dependency on foreign oil that may not really pan out..

but then again, at least in the mean time, it's a pretty cool option to race gas on the street. </TD></TR></TABLE>

interesting read.

 

http://www.businessweek.com/te...6.htm

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Some ethanol skeptics have even argued that the process involved in growing grain and then transforming it into ethanol requires more energy from fossil fuels than ethanol generates. In other words, they say the whole movement is a farce

There's no absolute consensus in the scientific community, but that argument is losing strength. Michael ****, a scientist at the Energy Dept.-funded Argonne National Laboratory for Transportation Research, says "The energy used for each unit of ethanol produced has been reduced by about half [since 1980]." Now, **** says, the delivery of 1 million British thermal units (BTUs) of ethanol uses 0.74 million BTUs of fossil fuels. (That does not include the solar energy -- the sun shining -- used in growing corn.) By contrast, he finds that the delivery of 1 million BTUs of gasoline requires 1.23 million BTU of fossil fuels

Producing ethanol could get more efficient soon as new technologies help farmers get more corn per acre of land and allow ethanol producers to get more of the fuel from the same amount of corn. The companies developing new corn technologies include chemical giant Dupont and Monsanto, which sells genetically modified seeds as well as chemicals for protecting crops</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Corn prices rising based on higher ethanol demand. Wonder how this will effect the price of ethanol and possibly ruin any chances of it becoming more mainstream.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...hanol

 

Just did some more tuning on the car i did last week. Made 552whp at 22psi on E85 and it started going lean up top. Logs showed 102% duty cycle. Ran that same boost on C16 and it made about 30whp LESS. E85 is good ****! In 2 weeks i'm doing a car with a big weldon pump, motec, and 1600's on it to see how far it'll really go.

That was all through a 3" cat too.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just did some more tuning on the car i did last week. Made 552whp at 22psi on E85 and it started going lean up top. Logs showed 102% duty cycle. Ran that same boost on C16 and it made about 30whp LESS. E85 is good ****! In 2 weeks i'm doing a car with a big weldon pump, motec, and 1600's on it to see how far it'll really go.

That was all through a 3" cat too.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Man...You just have all the fun!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Ran that same boost on C16 and it made about 30whp LESS.</TD></TR></TABLE>

damn, thats some **** indeed.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hondoctors &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've heard that the guys running "methanol" we're using 11.5:1 compression, and 35-40 lbs of boost... I guess for ethanol it all depends on what size turbo,and how many pounds of boost... What kind of R&D are you willing to do for the Honda-Tech community?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It'd be on an NA car, so I'd assume that if 11.5:1 is ok for premium pump than maybe 13:1 for ethanlo??

haha, I can barely afford to get a motor together let alone do r&d for Honda-Tech

 

Would some of the difference in whp @ 22psi be due to the lean condition on the upper end with E85?

 

Here's a really good link off the MegaSquirt site. Lot's of good technical information and conversions as always.(Even has a flow rate calculator)
http://www.megasquirt.info/flexfuel.htm

May want to add this to the list.

Here's one pertaining to how the wideband sensor operates specifically to ethanol.
http://www.megasquirt.info/PWC/
(look at links at bottom)



Modified by CivicDXRaceCar at 4:54 PM 12/2/2006

 

anyone got any more info on this

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just did some more tuning on the car i did last week. Made 552whp at 22psi on E85 and it started going lean up top. Logs showed 102% duty cycle. Ran that same boost on C16 and it made about 30whp LESS. E85 is good ****! In 2 weeks i'm doing a car with a big weldon pump, motec, and 1600's on it to see how far it'll really go.

That was all through a 3" cat too.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Deffinatley interested in results.

 

For those if you who are running aluminum fuel cells:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by www.nmma.org &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Aluminum Fuel Tanks

In the case of aluminum tanks, aluminum is a highly conductive metal that relies on an oxide layer for its corrosion protection properties. Low levels of ethanol, such as E10 (10%), are usually not a problem in aluminum tanks because the oxide layer provides a good measure of protection. The problem occurs when the ethanol content is increased.

There are two mechanisms that occur with ethanol. Both mechanisms are a result of the hydroscopic property of ethanol, meaning it absorbs water. The more ethanol in the fuel, the more water there will be in the fuel tank. Water not only causes the tank to corrode, it also causes the corrosion particles to clog fuel filters, fuel systems, and damage engine components. The corrosion rate can be accelerated under a number of conditions if other contaminating metals are present such as copper which may be picked up from brass fittings or as a low level contaminant in the aluminum alloy. Chloride, which is a chemical found in salt water, will also accelerate corrosion. In the long term, corrosion can perforate the aluminum to produce leaks that would cause fuel to spill into the bilge and end up in the environment. In the worse case it could cause a fire and/or explosion hazard. Boat fuel tanks are often located under the deck next to the engine where the operator might not be aware of a leak until it was too late. .

The second mechanism that can occurs with the increased use of ethanol based fuel in aluminum tanks is galvanic corrosion. Gasoline fuel is not conductive, but the presence of ethanol or ethanol and water will conduct electricity. The galvanic process that occurs to aluminum trim tabs, stern drives, shaft couplings, etc. will occur within the aluminum fuel tank. Boat builders are able to protect exterior aluminum boat equipment with sacrificial anodes known as zincs. Sacrificial anodes are not a feasible option for the interior of a fuel tank.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

According to them, aluminum + E85 = no no

I belive they are talking about using RAW aluminum. There are coatings that can be applied to aluminum to make them corrosion resistant like:

Anodizing
Hard Anodizing
Nickle Plating

ect

If you are going to be running an aluminum fuel cell do you self a favor and get it coated.

 

Make sure anything aluminum is anodized.

 

For the most part, righ now, E85 is based on processing Corn, Beets or other food staples.

Cellulosic ethanol is from the biodegrading of plants/animals/food and this will be the viable source of ethanol because eventually our food source will be threatened if we keep using corn, beets etc.......

And as others have said, they allow genetic cloning of plants so they can grow as much food based ethanol as they really desire.

The price will only come down in the future as it is more available and technology makes it cheaper to produce in mass.

 

Tony1 or anyone that might know,

Do stock Honda tanks have any protection in the way of coating/plating that would make them safe for extended use with E85 or even 100% Ethanol? I would think they have some form of protection.

Also, how well do you think Earls Pro-Lite 350 hose would stand up to prolonged exposure to ethanol? I know the Ultra-flex 650 would be perfect but the damn crimper for the ends is $500+, a bit much for the DIY plumber

 

The stock honda tank is steel, never heard of corrosion problems with ethanol and steel.