well this is the second time I have put rings in my engine. Fisrt time was after the initial build.

My setup:
b18a bottom end W/ eagle rods and srp pistons
top end is gsr head with mild work and stage 3 cams

any way it blows smoke like a mother f..cker. First time I assumed the rings never seated do to too fine of a hone. this time I used a rough hone and honed the **** out of it. 150mi later this time it blows smoke just as bad. the head was vacuum checked at the machine shop so the valve seats are all good.

I have a feeling that the head isnt mateing with the block somehow. All I know is that I did everything necessary to put them together. reloxcated dowels, drilled exhaust side rivets out of head gasket, lots of copper seal, torqued to 73 ft. I checked the dowels to make sure they arnet too tall and everything is good there. I am loosing oil and I really dont think it could be the rings this time....

any input or ideas would be greatly appreciated!!

 

any one? this **** sucks.......I wish I was helping answer questions, not asking them but I need some ideas here.

 

I remember my dad telling me that you cant put a low mile head onto a high mile block because it will smoke. I don't remember why though. I will ask him next time I see him.

 

Im not doing something that has never been done here. every thing has been rebuilt bottom to top.

 

It's possible that the fuel calculations have to be redone. Running super rich will do that.

 

just did compression check:#4..210 #3..225 #2..225 #1..225.

this is the same results that I had last time before I changed my rings. What could be going on here???

 

did you replace valve seals during the rebuild?

 

vlave seals are all replaced when motor was first built about 1300mi ago. I sent the head to the shop to have them vacuum tested and came out all good. Besides the smoke poors during excelleration, not deceleration.

 

When the head was off did you clean it any solvents? Parts cleaner or anything like that can eat away at your valve seals.

 

nope, the only thing I cleaned was the deck surfaces with brake parts cleaner.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbociv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">nope, the only thing I cleaned was the deck surfaces with brake parts cleaner.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If the brake and parts cleaner got on your valve seals than that's most likely whats causing your problem.

 

everythything was perfectly dry before installingt the head. Its the same exact problem as before I replaced the rings and in between ring changes the valve seals checked out fine with the vacuum test

 

[QUOTE=turbo. this time I used a rough hone and honed the **** out of it. 150mi later this time it blows smoke just as bad. the head was vacuum checked at the machine shop so the valve seats are all good.

any input or ideas would be greatly appreciated!![/QUOTE]


Now, you said you hone the cylinder walls yourself, right? did you recheck you piston to wall clearances? for, when you hone cylinder wall your taking metal away. so therefor, the clearance gets wider. Many, technicians at dealer ship makes these mistake - they don't check piston to wall cylinder before and after. But, you never have to hone a Honda stock sleeve's unless their is a scratch that can catch your finger nail. My advise to you is recheck your piston to clearance. I bet that's your problem due to the clearances are to wide. I have repair many engine because of over looked minor details like this..

 

what kind of clearances should I be looking for with my after market pistons. I file fitted the rings to about 17 thous. for expansion

 

try some other pistons !

 

i know that on my wiseco pistons the clearence was set at 30thousandths...

it could be that if you used a flex hone, what that doesnt correct is after time a cylinder wall wears in the middle so it ends up like ( ) instead of | | Im suprised you didnt have the block taken to a machine shop so they could use there hone machine which locks the block in place and goes perfectly up and down so the end result is | | cylinder walls every time.

If you can isolate it to the rings, id sell the pistons, get .5 over whatever you have then take it to a machine shop to machine to proper clearence. Clearence specs should come on a paper with the pistons.

I'd also take it easy, you say that your doing heavy acceleration at 130 miles. Give a chace for the rings to seat. Take it really easy for 1000 miles.

 

the first time they honed the block they did a plataeu hone. This hione left shadows though but they where positive it would seal. so the block at first was done by a machine shop.

I was always under the impression that you need the cylinder pressures to push the ring against the cylinder walls to help them make a better seal? ( long accels and long decels).Ive only got about 280mi now but if anything it seams to be getting worse. I always thought rings sealed within the first few hundred mi. I have alot of smoke. A little too much to think that the riungs are just seating.

 

The rings actually seat the first 20 or so miles. If they don't, they will probably never seat. After my first 15 miles, my compression was 250 across the board. It hasn't changed after 2000 miles. It sounds like you may be burning stuff off still. I know my car smoked a bit for the first 300 miles or so, but then it stopped. You may be running rich as someone has already said, and excess amount of fuel will make your car smoke quite a bit.

 

well I did another compression check today and I had 275-280 across the board except for number4 which was165. I then took some oil and dumped it into number four and did another compression check and I almost broke the guage it shot up so high, atleast 50 more. This pretty much means that my rings arent seated right?


Modified by turbociv at 12:14 AM 8/12/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbociv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well I did another compression check today and I had 175-180 across the board except for number4 which was165. I then took some oil and dumped it into number four and did another compression check and I almost broke the guage it shot up so high, atleast 50 more. This pretty much means that my rings arent seated right?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It would be to say so...

 

sorry, fucked up the compression numbers so I edited them. they are the correct ones now

 

Just a few thing I have gleaned:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by torbociv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">nope, the only thing I cleaned was the deck surfaces with brake parts cleaner.</TD></TR></TABLE>
If this left a residue on your cylinder wall(s) it will inhibit your ring(s) from seating.
Use Acetone to clean your aluminum surfaces. It evaporates completely leaving nothing behind.

I've heard though that WD40 applied to the rings and cylinder wall improves the rings' seating time.

If you installed a block girdle that is having trouble "draining" then you may be slinging excess oil up at your cylinder walls.

Until you have the problem fixed, use Regane in your gas to help keep that oil from turning to carbon deposits on your pistons.

Hopefully you can find a capable person to do your honing from now on.

Good Luck.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AzSi22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The rings actually seat the first 20 or so miles. If they don't, they will probably never seat. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Depends on how fine the hone is. If it's done rough enough it could take, easily, 1000 miles to seat.


Modified by evolve at 10:36 PM 8/13/2003

 

there is no crank girdle. I have 400mi and still smoking pretty strong. How many miles should I give it to break in before I tear it apart again??? I gave it 1k before and now I am at 400mi and having worse luck this time, probably because of the rough hone.

 

Is it possible that my oil isnt draining fast enough and getting sucked through the valves?? almost like drowning the valves.