Using a open T4 six13racing manifold which is made by the guy who does the ones for TSM and speed factory or so i'm told. The manifold has a Tial 44 gate on it that is positioned on the back side, this manifold is pretty popular here in the GTA and there's may ppl using it with fine results. However we took my k24/20 integra to get tuned by Ralph here in Toronto, we had a 10.15psi spring comb in and the first real pull we did we made 635/460 at 7.1k hitting boost cut at 24psi on a JB 6266.. This is a stock k24/20, we then put a 5lb in and set the boot cut to 20 did another pull and hit boost cut at 20psi. the gate it's self would not even open, we inspected the gate and it appeared fine, we blew into the top line and it opened. All parts are 100% legit no knock off crap was used. we had the 3 air ports on the gate capped with not plugs. We did not finish the session, and I was told i'd need to add another 44 gate to the manifold. I feel I shouldn't have to add something like a whole wastegate to make the product work. My parts guy has said he'll trade me my mani/gate for one with a single 60mm. Should I take his offer and "try" the single 60 on a new manifold (KlM)? or would I be better off just adding another 44 to the top of this manifold. I had a 3port boost solenoid but we gave up on that after the massive spike

 

Classic K-series - Sidewinder style - 90 degree wastegate entry problem. This style manifold paired with a high VE engine like the K series, free-flowing turbine wheel and poor wastegate entry angle invariably leads to boost creep. I've seen some guys add a second wastegate on top (Roman from PFI Speed/Boostedboiz channels), some have changed the wastegate position to the turbine housing (Motion Auto AWD Civic) and others have tried to band-aid the poor wastegate flow with oversized wastegates like a 60mm.

Just be aware that the 60mm wastegate can have boost control/Torque curve side effects - particularly if you trying to run < 15 psi boost pressures. What in essence happens is that when the 60mm gate opens, it dumps so much exhaust flow that it slows the turbo down, thereby dropping boost, the solenoid then shuts the gate again to build boost back to target and then the same happens. This oscillating motion can lead to erratic boost and dips in the mid-range power & torque curves.

Adding a tear drop shape to the wastegate entry angle and moving closer to a 45 degree angle for the wastegate is the best sollution (if you have the physical space).

 

It seems like there would be plenty of space to teardrop this thing, if it's not already. Could post some closer pictures of the wastegate outlet from the collector?

 

I have no useful info, just wanted to say the bay looks awesome!

 

The KLM manifold has a tear drop/angled 60mm mount at the bottom. i'd need to re-do the exhaust as it's 3.5" and there is ZERO room for anything underneath currently, only room up top. Ralph said the ideal psi would be between 15-18psi with this same t4 turbo. Would it be more in my favor to keep this one and add a 2nd MVR on the top? I don't want to put it on the turbine housing due to re-sale-ability plus i'm not up for welding on cast iron. This car is built for roll racing will never see a dig or drag strip.




There would, but it would require re doing the hood exit as it's huge and takes up ALL the room underneath the manifold. I will once the turbo/manifold comes off tonight.


Thanks man, I appreciate that.

 

"Correct" fix (what the fabricator should have done in the first place) is a tear drop offset for the wastegate. Adding a 2nd 44mm may help, but it's not really addressing the problem, and the entire exhaust setup would be far from efficient.

Up to you whatever you decide on, but I've never been a fan at all of these manifold designs in part due to this reason.

 

My question is specific to the manifold design - is there no room to come off the collector with a 90-degree bend down to the turbo flange, and give the wastegate priority, like the old Hytech B-series sidewinder manifolds?

 

I'm not a k-series but I run a 60mm gate no issues.

 

I've been looking at the KLM manifold with a teardrop 60mm, the piping would all need to be re-done(I do all my own fab), but i'd imagine i'd be ok? here Is the pic. Personally I don't like the idea of adding another one to the top. as guys with smaller turbos have been fine with it. I've asked just about everyone with this manifold and a 44 gate on IG, they said they were fine. The only guy who had the exact same issue, is also a k24/20 with a 6266 his is a T3 tho.

 

I'd say try teardrop the existing manifold you have - considering you can fabricate yourself and stick to the 44mm wastegate you alreadty have. Any changes you make to the wastegate flow area will be an improvement - even if you need to resell it later and change to a different design.

I once experienced extreme boost creep on a B-series with a 80mm Holset turbine wheel and 2 x 38mm wastegates - it all depends on the engine/turbo combination. We ended up switching to a single 50mm in the turbine housing and it fixed the issue but I completely understand you not wanting to do so for resale purposes.

 

First of all the car looks great.
The Johannesburg friend above is correct.
You can allways make a second hole on the other side of the collector, pull 2 pipes one from the new hole and one from the existing hole.
Merge them further dowb into 2 to 1 / Y- merge and place the existing 44mm wastegate on another location further near the turbo. The gasses will hit straight the wastegate valve
and will work even better from a 60mm on the existing location.
Look at the picture i made bellow.

 

There is not enough room at the bottom to tear drop, or mount a 2nd 44. it would have to be a tear drop at the top and ever then the hood may hit. it being a k24 it's close already. Would that still be effective?



Thanks, that might be do-able however I can't make them meet there's little to no room between the hood and the top of the manifold.





What i'm trying to gather is, if it's better from me to wait till next season and get the KLM with a teardrop 60 Tial at the base and re do the whole hood exits.Or to try and add a tear dropped 44 mm to the exact opposite side or the top of the manifold. This would be the fastest and cheapest.

 

the problem is u have no backpressure and stock engine. with a full exhaust and 100/200cpsi catal. u hve now boost creep. ive seen sooo much problems with k series/ sidewinder/ big turbo and stock block = high psi. u can play with angle that helps a little bit 0-10 cam° but u need restriction in downpipe/ exhaust. and the 90° theory of wastegate is little bit true. see all ramhorn turbos on d / bseries. all have 90° Wastegate on collector and it works but 1.6-1.8L. i would try a ´´silencer ´´ in ur open downpipe.

 

I've never heard of anyone having issues with a 60mm, so I think i'll call my parts guy and get him to order me up a KLM one with a bottom-tear dropped 60mm tial.