Hey guys, finally stuck my car on the rollars and tuned it at WOT and got a good reading.

Question is, at low rpms 1,500-2,500 if i give more then about ~%50-%100 throttle there's a slight ping noise, i richened the area from about 14:5 to 13:0 (what i tuned WOT AT) which reduced it quite a bit, I tried advancing timing in those areas as well which seemed to reduce it more, now i'm pretty rich and primary ignition table looks ridiculous. Any suggestions? And also, on the primary ignition table, I hit what may seem like a 'dead zone' to yall in columns 8-10 between 500-1500 RPMs. I can't really figure out what to do as far as the ignition without the graph looking like a kindergarten painting.


Also, tuning ignition at WOT, I increased ignition on columns 9-10 by 2*, which made me lose power, so I backed it off to where it was. Question: what if i kept gaining power, do i need to advance the timing from columns 6-8 so 9-10 don't over lap? From what I understand you don't want to overlap the dots on the 2-d map





If you guys can post some maps of your ignition tables that could help me out and give me a general idea on what needs to be done, thanks!

 

Tuning ign - On the high cam, you should only advance after vtec has engaged.. your running 28 degrees at wot @ redline.. From what i've seen lately 25, seems to be a good spot.. depending on the supporting mods.. advancing isn't goin to add power.. and neither is retarding, but i'd try to retard after vtec a few degrees and see if you pick up any power..
IF you advanced and you made no change and actually lost power, chances are you were already "too" advanced.

Your pinging / knock at low rpm @ high load is a common problem high compression street cars have.. I have it as well. If i'm in 2nd or 3rd, and nail it at like 2k rpms, until it reaches 4, it will knock..you'll have to bring down the timing in that area from which it is knocking a good bit, probably almost 5 degrees..but only in that area, your not completely AT WOT MBAR when your knocking.. your on column 8 when its happening or around that area.. so it shouldn't effect your overall power, your doing it to improve driveablity.

You want 12.8~13.3 AFR across the board on wot , which is what i've found to be pretty useful in n/a cars...and most like mid 20's for ign setting at wot redline.
24-26degrees total timing.. here's my maps.

 

You want your lines smooth and never to criss cross, ever.. if you advance and keep making power, move the other lines up to follow the advancement of the other lines..

 

Here's my fueling maps just for ***** for you..
440cc injectors for you.

 

Yea i had that prob low around 4000- to 4500 pinging and drop the timing 3-4 degrees and no more pinging.

 

It's ridiculous with my low end ping, I've literally sat and watched it do it a few times RIGHT AT the ignition columns 8-10 on the low cam between 1,000-1,800 rpm and it's literally only at 22* of ignition, max!

My dist. is synced into my s300 as well, it wanted 16* at idle on the dizzy to be sync into the software.

 

Okay, I just pulled out timing on my low end, lots of it.

Also, you said i'm not supposed to look for power when i advance timing? How can i produce more power besides messing with cam gear settings? I'm learning all this for stock cams, i'm waiting for my new head to come back with some crower 3's to make more power and have more fun tuning!

 

IF your advanced right now as it is, and you advance FUTHER, dont count on making anymore power..thats what i ment..

Stock cams? Try +3 on the I and 0 on the exhaust, that should make a good bit of difference, it did on 96 itr cams that i tuned a few months back, gainned almost 12whp just by the advancement.

Advancing timing is tricky, you need to learn how to read plugs as well to actually see what your motor is doing.. You can produce more power by adjusting gears and possiblely retarding your WOT REDLINE IGN.. columns 9/10 at WOT.. make a pass, watch where your manifold actually creates 1038mbar and goes wide open throttle, your not in columns 9/10 until you actually see it, so dont adjust columns your not in.. when you get there, then adjust..
keep your maps smooth..
Advance ign as you go, if the car makes no change, go back or possible retarded a degree or two, like i said, your total timing is 28 degrees, i'd back it up to 26 and see what it does, if it gains 8 whp, go more, i wouldn't go any more retarded then 24 degrees tho..

keep your AFR steady, its hard to do, but its very possible, aim for 13.3 afr for the absolute best torque results on a na motor.

 

wowzers, i didn't think you could gain so much with stock cams, i don't have any gears to adjust so that's out of the picture for now.

i'm pretty steady at 12.9-13.1 through the whole band (4k-8k)

thanks for all the help allmotor

i'm still getting a knock at low rpms. it's sickening.. i don't have more then 24* of timing in the areas i'm pinging at and the afr's are pretty rich.. 13.0 ish for cruising and light load which i think is ridiculous. should i pump some 93 octane and see if it goes away?

 

You should be running 93 , in the first place.............seriously?

 

there's only two places in oklahoma city that carry 93, everywhere else is 91. sorry i didn't clarify. each of which is atleast a half hour from my house

 

you are running too much timing in the low vacuum, low rpm area.

advancing timing, as you said, attempting to reduce timing is just asking for more detonation.

remember this is a speed density system. even when the logger cells tell you where you are in the map, it is still using the cells surrounding it to obtain information on what it is about to do.
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I understand with the 4 cells highlighted when i'm datalogging that cells around the highlighted ones will influence the ones that are actually highlighted, even though it's pinging between 1000-2000 rpm, i'm touching the ignition up too 2250-2500 as well.

So tell me, did you mean i have too much timing in the low vacuum,low rpm area? because you also said reducing timing will also result in detonation? can you explain this more clear?

 

thoughts were going faster than my typing, sorry lol.

too much timing. attempting to advance timing to remove detonation is going to increase detonation. Do you understand how ignition timing works? the higher the number, the closer the piston is to TDC when peak cylinder pressure is achieved. throwing a bunch of timing in an area it doesnt want it is asking for more trouble.
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^^, yeah i know that much. i've been pulling timing and i'm at like 19-21 degrees on the heavy loads at low rpm, still pinging though. I just have to learn how to ease it past 2500 rpm to get it out of that zone

i wish oklahoma served 93 :'(

 

I'm not pro or something, but I would keep retarding my timing in the area where the knock is...

P.S. whats for compression ratio?

 

even lower then 19-21* which is what i idle at?


and it's 11:5-11:8

they're 11:5 arias' with a gsr block and b16 head

 

so? there is litlle/no load at idle so areas in the same RPM blocks but at a higher load will require less timing.
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