I just called a local machine shop yesterday to get a quote on getting my B18B head disassemble, cleaned, new valve guides, and reassemble for $350. I also asked them how much to do like a street or stage 1 port and polish? I told them that I'm going to turbo the car. They told me that it's just a waste of money to PnP if I'm going turbo. He said even if it's free it's just a waste of time. I would only notice a difference of no more then 2HP gain. This is the first time I hear something like this so I just wanted to double check if it's true or should i just bring it to another machine shop? I've seen alot of B18B people do PnP on their turbo setups before.

 

well im sure u know the a honda head flow awsome as is. if u have cams an sometoehr mods done then it would help some. more then 2whp though.

 

With stock cams and boost, it is a waste for the money. It would be much more cost efficient to save up for a vtec conversion. I know many who hate vtec or whatever, but its a simple fact.

Build the block, recondition the stock head, and crank the boost.

 

you can actually lose power, if the shop does not know what they are doing, or does not have extensive knowledge of honda heads.

ive seen quite a few guys with PnP heads from shops that claim that they have knowledge on honda heads, to lose power on the dyno

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">With stock cams and boost, it is a waste for the money. It would be much more cost efficient to save up for a vtec conversion. I know many who hate vtec or whatever, but its a simple fact.

Build the block, recondition the stock head, and crank the boost.</TD></TR></TABLE>



id rather have a stock vtec head than a fully worked ls head..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">With stock cams and boost, it is a waste for the money. It would be much more cost efficient to save up for a vtec conversion. I know many who hate vtec or whatever, but its a simple fact.

Build the block, recondition the stock head, and crank the boost.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
id rather have a stock vtec head than a fully worked ls head..</TD></TR></TABLE>

but it's just that i have the non-vtec with my car now. i know that the vtec head have bigger chambers, better flow, etc. but i would just rather work with the head i have from my car then to go and buy a vtec then buy the vtec conversion kit.

I was just gonna do the PnP since im having the head disassemble already so might as well spend the few benjamins on the way.

 

buy the time you pay for all that you could have bought a vtec head and conversion kit

 

but then i would still want to get the head out to be clean and have new valve guides. for a vtec head it would cost even more then $350 to get it disassemble, cleaned, new valve guides, and reassemble. i'm not doubting that vtec is a bad idea just i would rather spend $700ish for a PnP B18B head with new valve guides and cleaned then $1200ish for a stock VTec head with new valve guides and cleaned.

 

i was just like you i didnt want to do a ls-vtec turbo because i wanted to be different so i did a stage 2.5 p&p with crower springs/retainers and got new guides and seats from the machine shop and put some crower 402-t turbo cams and it showed a great increase because we all know ls heads dont flow good at all and usually fall out at around 7200k and the head work w/ cams it flowed to almost 9k and the p&p head kept it from not falling and the crower cams made the midrange from around 4-7k have a great power increase so i think its worth it if you want to be different since everyone is doing some kind of vtec w/ boost

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by snaileg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i was just like you i didnt want to do a ls-vtec turbo because i wanted to be different so i did a stage 2.5 p&p with crower springs/retainers and got new guides and seats from the machine shop and put some crower 402-t turbo cams and it showed a great increase because we all know ls heads dont flow good at all and usually fall out at around 7200k and the head work w/ cams it flowed to almost 9k and the p&p head kept it from not falling and the crower cams made the midrange from around 4-7k have a great power increase so i think its worth it if you want to be different since everyone is doing some kind of vtec w/ boost</TD></TR></TABLE>


what if the head is stock would the PnP help it? what's the estimate HP increase I should see with stock PnP head?

 

that machine shop is charging you a lot for assembling and cleaning a head. In miami they do it for 150-200. If i were you id go vtec.

 

It's $350 for disassemble, clean, new valve guides, and reassemble. There only about a hand full of machine shops around Chicago. Everyone is about the same price so and i dont want to send the head out cause it's gonna be about the same afterall.

 

I would much rather have cams then porting it for what you want. And GOOD porting jobs by a reputable shop is not cheap at all.

 

pnp does help on high hp builds. just do a little shopping and try to find one for cheap

 

Keep the Non Vtec head boneStock and turn up the boost, Dont bother wasteing your money and time trying to be """Different"""" Stock ls head and Stock cams will make more power then you need for a street/strip car crank up the Boost

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OBRJosh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Keep the Non Vtec head boneStock and turn up the boost, Dont bother wasteing your money and time trying to be """Different"""" Stock ls head and Stock cams will make more power then you need for a street/strip car crank up the Boost </TD></TR></TABLE>

you can do that but there would be no fun it in at all if you have to shift at about 7k everytime because without cams or a port job there is no way a ls head would let you make any more power past 7200k so even if you shifted at 8k you want to be able to rev higher on a ls head and still make power that is why i think non-vtec is a little more challenging and fun

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by snaileg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

you can do that but there would be no fun it in at all if you have to shift at about 7k everytime because without cams or a port job there is no way a ls head would let you make any more power past 7200k so even if you shifted at 8k you want to be able to rev higher on a ls head and still make power that is why i think non-vtec is a little more challenging and fun </TD></TR></TABLE>

Its not so much the head, its the cams. You're not going to find a stock cam, stock intake mani B18b1 that can hold torque past 5k like a vtec head. Let me recount some knowledge. I've seen some flowbench numbers for a sohc vtec head of ~180cmf (IIRC; same place had gsr, audi, vw, dsm numbers listed too). Assume a b18 head flows a bit more. The raw numbers say a 1.8L motor requires ~215cfm at 7200rpm and 95% VE. Bigger ports will up VE only slightly. Its when your motor rev's to 8k that it (a 15-20% increase in flow) will help out.

In other words, your cams are the biggest restriction atm. Once you get big cams, your restriction will be the stock IM and head after 7500 rpm. Although my numbers aren't perfect, I'm using them to illustrate my point.

What boosted non-vtec motors are known for are big, fat torque 'humps', more like a v6 curves than anything. You can spend money in better places for a boosted street b18b1 than cams or head porting.

 

If your going to stick with the ls head and make good power, port work and cams are your best friend. I would take a fully built ls head over a stock vtec head any day.

just my 2 cents, i'm sure others will dissagree.

 

any1 of a good and reasonable price machine shop where i can send my head to?

 

if u would take a sbuilt LS head over a vtec head than u would wasting a bunch of money and yeilding the smae power.

Now it idles shitty and u have to worry about those tappers flying apart.


VTEC FTW!!!!!!!!!!

 

i would rather have a freshly rebuilt ls head with 0 miles over a used vtec head with i dont know what it's been through.

 

Oh yea that makes sense, spending money on SS valves and new bronze guides is a waste of money Not to mention the fact that when dissasembled your machinist will wash and pressure test . Go buy your hand me down vtec head from Jose or Pedro, buy a used vtec selenoid, distributor, ecu and conversion kit only to find out that the head you bought had been milled several times and your guides are out of spec, your valve seals are shot and your car now smokes like a train. Yea a vtec conversion is really looking promissing now . I'll also make the "smae" power but with a beefier powerband and actually be left with some tourque.

Oh one more thing, I happen to like the way that big cams make my car idle. Whats wrong with a nice thumping at stop lights. I have also revved my built ls head to 9,000+ and my "tappers" have never flown apart.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92DAturboteg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If your going to stick with the ls head and make good power, port work and cams are your best friend. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree.

Check out the LS-T setup thread. There are a bunch of people on there with mildly built LS heads putting down really good numbers. Like everyone said though, the VTEC head is a better starting point, but its up to you and what you really want to do.

 

here's my dyno of a a straight ls build witha mild ported head and a decent tune i think there is still more in it that i can push out at the same boost levels and this was done on stock bore and pump gas

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1887844

 

those numbers look crazy on a stock sleeve. i guess paying the addition $350 for a port and polish job is worth it at since im redoing the head now.