George Knighton

Is there a version of Civic that has the same motor that's the one in the 1.5 Turbo CR-V 2018 model year affected by the fuel/oil contamination problem?

UK-Kev

Hello, Yes to answer your question - In China Honda have stopped selling CR-Vs' & Civics' with the 1.5 turbo Engine. Same problem in USA & Canada regarding oil in sump being diluted with petrol. The 1.5 turbo CRV supplied to the UK come from Japan and I am not aware if they have this problem.

George Knighton

foumer

Are the 1.5t accords affected too?

zeroptzero

Pretty much every direct injected turbo in production has this issue, starting with the original Mazdaspeed3, the Ford Escapes and other Ford ecoboost vehicles, Chevy Cruzes and now Hondas.

George Knighton

For the ignorant among us, could you explain why this would be, and why the majority of the Honda 1.5 Turbo motors do not experience this if it is so normal?

zeroptzero

^ This is a very complicated issue that no person on an internet forum will resolve.

I can't account for every fuel dilution issue but generally speaking direct injected turbo motors experience low speed detonation issues at low rpms when engines are being driven around 2000 rpms or lower, and this seems to be more prevalent with modern transmissions that tend to keep rpms as low as possible. So a small direct injected turbo matched to a CVT tranny may be where fuel dilution issues are showing up most. To keep that in check manufacturers may run them a bit rich in lower rpm conditions to combat low speed preignition (LSPI), or the fuel just doesn't combust as well in rich low speed conditions ?

They also rely on fuel being injected at extremely high pressures, if there is a slight issue with an injector you might get worse performance, it is hard to diagnose with millions of engines out there and billions of injectors. It isn't difficult to expect to have a percentage of injectors that don't operate 100% in today's world with these new high pressure and more technical injectors.

Fuel dilution gets worse in short distance lower speed driving, if an owner drives short distances or idles frequently (not uncommon in today's city commutes) fuel levels in the motor oil get worse as it does not burn off as much as someone who drives longer distances and highway driving conditions and less idling conditions. My sister who may drive 3 miles to work each day and rarely gets the motor oil up to very hot temp on the way to the grocery store and shopping mall may find that her Civic has higher fuel dilution. Toss in winter cold weather remote starts and her numbers may be much higher than mine, where I may drive on the highway for 4+ hours once a week and my oil temps get hot enough to burn off excess moisture and fuel. .

Lastly, how many people get used oil analysis done on their motor oils ? probably way less than 1/2 percent of owners ? I've done it for many years, but very few people do that, so there can be many more fuel dilution issues out there and the vehicle owners and auto dealers (who change the oils) will never know about them. I had a fuel dilution issue on my S2000 one year and only found out about it through a UOA that I had done. The last issue is that some UOA testing firms don't properly measure accurate fuel levels in oils due to their testing methods, so one more monkey wrench in the entire issue. Depending on which testing company you use for your UOA the results can be listed differently, which sucks.

Personally I'd rather have an old school port fuel injected turbo motor over a direct injected turbo given the length of time it is taking manufacturers to address potential issues. But the million dollar question is if fuel dilution is causing excessive wear on these engines, if could be entirely possible to have high fuel dilution numbers in your oil and not be experiencing any adverse wear issues. Too many variables and too many unknowns , perhaps things will be more clear 10 years down the road when some of these engines get 200,000 miles on them to know for sure.

So to summarize, we just don't really know what is happening for sure, perhaps the auto manufactures know best as they have performed very in depth testing of their motors over millions of miles with more accurate testing methods than any of us can ever achieve. Many of us may feel like guinea pigs in this matter, but hopefully Honda knows better based on their testing. When they developed these motors they introduced a number of changes that other manufacturers never used in their designs, so hopefully this will not be a long term issue for Honda. Personally I have not seen any concrete proof that there are wear issues with Honda's turbo direct injected motors, and the statement of Honda not selling them in China might be for a number of different issues that don't relate to North America.

This probably doesn't answer your question but I am just trying to summarize many of the issues surrounding this matter. Too many wide encompassing statements get thrown around these types of discussions, and the truth of the matter is that we just don't have all of the information to make an accurate assessment. I still put my faith in Honda at this point in time.

Hellcat68

Honda Canada issued a Press Release Update#3 on October 29. The 2017-2018 CR-Vs and 2016-2018 Civic Turbos will be recalled to address the oil dilution. The dealers have a technical document dated October 26 which details the work they will do. SO - No More Rumours.

Statement Regarding Irregularly High Oil Levels in Certain Honda Vehicles - UPDATE#3

This Press Release can be found at Honda Canada under Press Releases.

zeroptzero

^ thanks for the info. The six year warranty extension with unlimited mileage sounds great to me.

zeroptzero

I just called my dealer in Ontario Canada, they know nothing about a recall. I'll just wait to hear something if it is truly on the way, but nothing to confirm for sure at this time.

GoLowDrew

Honda Oil Dilution Class Action Investigation | Migliaccio & Rathod LLP

Class action momemtum in the US.

Hellcat68

This is verbatim the Honda Press Release, under News, on the Honda Canada site. Your dealer should be capable of real information for you. All dealers received the recall procedure instructions on the 26th. I have seen and read them.

Statement Regarding Irregularly High Oil Levels in Certain Honda Vehicles - UPDATE#3

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Markham, ON (October 29, 2018) – Honda Canada previously advised that it had received reports of irregularly high oil levels in certain Honda vehicles equipped with 1.5L turbo engines, and that countermeasures would soon be released to address the potential for over-dilution of oil with fuel and moisture. Honda is pleased to confirm further details regarding the vehicle enhancements that will be offered to customers free-of-charge, in order to address this potential issue. Honda will conduct a free product update and extend the warranty on certain components, on certain 2017-2018 CR-V and 2016-2018 Civic vehicles, to address potential over-dilution of oil in these vehicles, which may be more prevalent when the vehicles are driven short distances in very low outside temperature conditions.

Authorized Honda dealers performing the free product update will upload new software into vehicle, change the engine oil, and, in certain vehicles, replace the air conditioning control unit. The updates will allow the engine to warm up faster, improving fuel combustion and reducing oil dilution. In addition to this product update service, to better ensure customer confidence, Honda Canada is providing a warranty extension on certain engine components for up to six years from the original date of purchase, with no mileage limit.

Honda plans to begin roll out of the applicable vehicle enhancements for CR-V, in early November 2018, with those for Civic following shortly thereafter. At this time, Honda has no reason to believe that this potential issue affects the safe operation of a vehicle or results in any regulatory non-compliance. We encourage customers with concerns about their vehicle to visit their nearest Honda dealer to have their vehicle inspected, upon receiving written notification from Honda Canada about the availability of enhancements for their vehicle. Additionally, owners of affected vehicles can determine if their vehicles are included in this service product update by going to www.honda.ca/recalls or by calling Honda Canada Customer Relations at 1-888-946-6329.

zeroptzero

Thanks very much for the added info, my dealer must be staffed with idiots, how can they say that they don't know about this ? Good lord. I'm calling back tomorrow, thanks kindly

vibetech1

I'll be keeping an eye on mine! Thanks

George Knighton

When I first bought my car in 10/2014, I found myself having to tell them the TSB number when I told them they would have to address something.

I'm not sure how the system works, but apparently it's a normal search string similar to what you'd use with Yahoo or Google, and unless you manage to hit the right words, you might not find the TSB.

Design

Old post but I'll add that a high fuel dilution reading is not always indicative of a problem. We're tracking this fairly close in other communities and are not seeing an increase in wear metals or unusually low oil viscosity readings, despite fuel readings above 5%. That said, there are 3-4 documented cases of "extreme dilution" on the CRV's 1.5T where the oil level has increased so much that it's spiking the A/F ratio and/or causing an occasional misfire. It seems to only occur in extremely cold climates under repeated short trips, which is why Honda is targeting those regions first for the recall.

The CRV's configuration is a little different from most 1.5Ts in that it leverages an active shutter grill that can accelerate (or delay) how quickly the engine warms up.

Hope that helps.

zeroptzero

In the notice I received by Honda it also mentions that the oil can freeze in extreme cold temps from high levels of impurities, causing a low oil pressure situation.

George Knighton

3-4 documented cases is not very much for the press the problem has generated.

What helps more than anything else is probably Honda's recognition of the possible problem, and the rapid distribution of a logical fix.