Hey Jon, thanks for clearing that up. It makes sense now.

Hope to see you out some time this year. Good luck this season.

 

Haha, glad he cleared that up for you, I am as confused as page 2 Has anyone here (know I should clarify that one ) said that Hondata on an untouched head and bottom end and CR as it came from the factory (and limited by every other limitation in IT prep) is making anyone any appreciable power?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FLATOUTRACING &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For reference, the car made about 122 when I bought it (pre-OBD1 and pre-Hondata). Adding the Hondata and OBDI got us up to about 127-128 hp. With the headwork and more tunning we got 134-135 at the wheels.

The gains were peak vs. peak.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

That sounds about right.
I can buy 6 peak HP for Hondata/OBD I (and don't forget the OBD I conversion likely helped wake up the intake and exhaust modifications that were already there) and 8 hp for the head work.

And the other point that Jon made is the difference between someone building a car to win a championship and a 16 year old rookie on a tight budget. The first should do everything he can for every single little whp, the latter should have a reasonable plan to get "bang for the buck" for every dollar spent (at least at first).

When Blake and I built my car, it was built to win the ARRC. Plain and simple. We did everything the rulebook allowed us to do.
Based on what CJ has said, and the money he'll have available, he won't be doing this. He'll be building in steps, and as Alex mentioned the big hitters are the bolt-ons.
If there's more money... Final drive and limited slip
More... Headwork
More... ECU
etc., etc.

Of course, this assumes the safety stuff and suspension are done first. The safety stuff speaks for itself, and the suspension is more important than maximizing the drivetrain for a plethora of reasons.

Have fun young jedi.
I hope you realize what you're getting into. My gut tells me that you don't. Not even close.

 

ive been into racing just not this big. but i want to do this even if i hate it down the road. Luckily in these last few weeks i have met alot of people who will definately help me out down the road maybe with just knowledge or maybe with parts. it's like what jeff "kiwi" told me." the man that sponsors you will a couple quarts of oil today might sign off on that couple hundred thousand dollar World Challenge fund in a few years"

but im going to try my best to take it in steps. and i was thinking identical to what scott was sayin in a post above this one.

i do have another question. should i worry about the cooling system for the motor? i know i cant run coolant but stuff like "water wetter" is allowed and im already planning on an Oil cooler. but should i upgrade the radiator , fans , and hoses as a must? or should i put that on the back burner for down the road.

thanks guys. maybe this will give ya'll something to do at work.


later

 

Wow, i read the first page a couple of hours ago and gave up about halfway through. Then came back to check on the last page and what a turnaround...

I wont bother reading the middle. Regardless of what happened in between, seems like you're on the right track now.

Good luck...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JRDbuilt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">" the man that sponsors you will a couple quarts of oil today might sign off on that couple hundred thousand dollar World Challenge fund in a few years"</TD></TR></TABLE>


The chance of that happening is probably like 1 in a billion, but it "might" happen.

 

isn't there a rule against piggybacks in IT? Wouldn't that include the hondata?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">isn't there a rule against piggybacks in IT? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wouldn't that include the hondata?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nope, since it fits inside the stock ecu box

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JRDbuilt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i do have another question. should i worry about the cooling system for the motor? i know i cant run coolant but stuff like "water wetter" is allowed and im already planning on an Oil cooler. but should i upgrade the radiator , fans , and hoses as a must? or should i put that on the back burner for down the road.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If the stock cooling system is in good shape, get it out on track and see how the temp gauge looks. There's no need to upgrade if the temps aren't soaring, and it is possible to cool the engine *too* much. Leave the cabin heating system in the car, and see if running the defroster when the temps creep up helps. If you're still overheating, then go ahead and look into getting a better radiator.

Same goes for the oil cooler. Oil viscosity and lubricating properties work at an optimum temperature. It is possible to overcool your oil, and it won't be working at it's best. Install an oil temp gauge, and find out what the optimum oil temps are, and see how it goes.

Rule of thumb: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you're not having any temperature issues, why spend the money on more stuff that *you don't need.*

I'm betting, if the stock cooling system is in good shape, with the cooler temperatures back east, you shouldn't have any problems with it. Make sure the hoses are in good shape, not cracking or leaking, and replace the factory hose clips with real hose clamps, check to make sure the thermostat is working (per the factory shop manual), bleed the system, and you should be fine.

Good question.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Nope, since it fits inside the stock ecu box </TD></TR></TABLE>

doesn't the pretty little blue box sit outside the ECU?

 

thanks! that helps alot.

is there anything else advice wise i need to know or specifics i need to look into?

thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">doesn't the pretty little blue box sit outside the ECU?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, but I seem to recall a thread where somebody stated the serial connection and other external bits were removable.

 

Just out of curiosity, is a OBD-1 to OBD-2 conversion legal in IT? I don't see anything in the GCR that says you can alter the wiring harness at all.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Racerboy03 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I don't see anything in the GCR that says you can alter the wiring harness at all.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You dont have to

 

John's car is primarily run in Honda Challenge and I don't think it has actually turned a wheel yet in an IT race. There are a few things that make his car not 100% legal for IT (such as the wiring harness change) and I believe John does know exactly what they are.

 

ok im reading you all's conversation and have a question if i may butt in for a second. seeing FLATOUTRACING talk about doing the OBD-1 conversion. how does this help over the OBD-2? i know it's more basic and less environmental junk i believe which is easier for tunning but is there anything else to it?im sure there is.

also which doesn the 96 ex come with? obd-2?


thanks guys

 

92-95 OBD I
96+ OBDII

This applies for most cars - some switched to OBD II in '95 but they had to boe OBD II in '96. I dont know that one ECU or another will give more power or not, but the OBD I will be easier to tune. The emissions equipment is the same from 95 to 96, AFAIK.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yes, but I seem to recall a thread where somebody stated the serial connection and other external bits were removable.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I thought it had to stay plugged in.. at least with the S200..? apparently not?

 

The Hondata S100 is an internal mod that has most of the features of the external S200. FWIW I gained about 6hp across the board going from OBDIIb to OBD1+S100 on my GSR (I/H/E only).

 

that's good to know about the gain.

so looks like i should look into the S100 system then.

 

One could also assume (according to the extent that I follow the conversations going on about it) that you gained "6hp across the board going from OBDIIb to OBD1" alone without regard to the Hondata. Or do you have information of before and after S100 but after the OBD1 convert?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phat-S &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">One could also assume (according to the extent that I follow the conversations going on about it) that you gained "6hp across the board going from OBDIIb to OBD1" alone without regard to the Hondata. Or do you have information of before and after S100 but after the OBD1 convert?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

How is power output going to change going from OBD II to OBD I? Take the integra for example..... same engine (B18B) and cams, manifolds, compression, etc is unchanged going from 94-95 to 96+ - with the same power output (140hp).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

How is power output going to change going from OBD II to OBD I? Take the integra for example..... same engine (B18B) and cams, manifolds, compression, etc is unchanged going from 94-95 to 96+ - with the same power output (140hp).</TD></TR></TABLE>

Different response to the other changes like intake and exhaust.
Some OBDII cars do not respond to bolt-ons at all. I remember a Grassroots OBD II BMW project that actually lost whp with an intake and header.

So while OBD I might not actually add any power itself, it might help the intake and header modifications that were already there.

 

kinda like i said . more user friendly and responds better to modifications than OBD-2

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phat-S &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">One could also assume (according to the extent that I follow the conversations going on about it) that you gained "6hp across the board going from OBDIIb to OBD1" alone without regard to the Hondata. Or do you have information of before and after S100 but after the OBD1 convert?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The gains I saw were compared to the baseline of the OBD1 w/ untuned S100 which was very similar to a previous dyno of the stock OBD2b ECU.