quick IT question.
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Re: quick IT question. (JRDbuilt)
if you run a car that wasn't offered in the OBDI years, there is no way it would be legal.
example, if you run your 96-00 civic you couldn't convert it too OBDI, the ECU for the D16y8 was never producded in OBD1.
I think its special for the integras since they were both offered in OBDI and OBDII.
I don't also see why you would go about converting a bunch of stuff, when if it was legal to to do you coudl simply purchase a OBDII to OBDI conversion harness, which can be found for around 100 bucks. Since OBDII just has 2 or 3 extra sensors on the wiring harness, if you just switch over to the ecu you would just simply not use those sensors any more.
And also when you run hondata on an OBDII car don't you need to switch over to OBDI? im not 100% sure about that.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JRDbuilt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i can get a obd2-1 conversion , obd1 ecu, and hondata s100 setup brand new from the factory for less than 400. this a good deal?</TD></TR></TABLE>
do you even have a car yet?
example, if you run your 96-00 civic you couldn't convert it too OBDI, the ECU for the D16y8 was never producded in OBD1.
I think its special for the integras since they were both offered in OBDI and OBDII.
I don't also see why you would go about converting a bunch of stuff, when if it was legal to to do you coudl simply purchase a OBDII to OBDI conversion harness, which can be found for around 100 bucks. Since OBDII just has 2 or 3 extra sensors on the wiring harness, if you just switch over to the ecu you would just simply not use those sensors any more.
And also when you run hondata on an OBDII car don't you need to switch over to OBDI? im not 100% sure about that.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JRDbuilt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i can get a obd2-1 conversion , obd1 ecu, and hondata s100 setup brand new from the factory for less than 400. this a good deal?</TD></TR></TABLE>
do you even have a car yet?
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Re: quick IT question. (slammed_93_hatch)
well from what i have read in my thread from these last couple of pages i have read , could of been wrong. but you can increase performance of the car by switching back to OBD-1 then going to hondata.
if i read the rules correctly you can do anything to the ECU you want as long as it stays in the stock housing with no external type piggybacks.
when i was talking about the conversion i ment the harness , ecu which is programed with the Hondata.
yes i have a car.
if i read the rules correctly you can do anything to the ECU you want as long as it stays in the stock housing with no external type piggybacks.
when i was talking about the conversion i ment the harness , ecu which is programed with the Hondata.
yes i have a car.
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Re: quick IT question. (JRDbuilt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">when i was talking about the conversion i ment the harness</TD></TR></TABLE>
ITCS D.6. .... "the stock (unmodified) wiring harness must be used."
ITCS D.6. .... "the stock (unmodified) wiring harness must be used."
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Re: quick IT question. (RineRacing)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RineRacing »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The gains I saw were compared to the baseline of the OBD1 w/ untuned S100 which was very similar to a previous dyno of the stock OBD2b ECU.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't believe a Hondata is able to read the a/f and timing tables off a stock ecu, so therefore any baseline program you start with is not starting off the stock ecu maps. It's starting off whatever maps your baseline program contains. Therefore any gains you may see can only be compared to your baseline program, not to the actual stock ecu.
So far I haven't seen any examples of any real gains to be had from tunning a hondata alone. All the gains I've noticed on this thread are due to hondata tuning in combination with other variables, such as for example a switch from OBD2 to OBD1, or the addition of head work, etc. The only thing that'll show that tuning the hondata is the only variable that resulted in some gains is if you take a car that was OBD1 stock, such as a '92 Civic, '94 GSR, '93 Integra, etc, do a couple of dyno runs, then swap out on the spot the stock ecu for your modified hondata ecu and do another couple of runs and compare the gains. I don't think taking a car that was originally OBDII, converting it to an OBDI and then tuning on that baseline (which is just some OBD1 arbitrary baseline program to begin with) is the same. Who knows how more (environmentally conservative?) the stock OBDII maps and parameters were, or how much of a role other more subtle variables associated with this swap played.
Also, the closer to stock your motor is and the less power it puts out stock, the smaller the gains (if any) you will be able to notice. A 5 hp gain on a ~200 whp hp car is equivalent to only a 2.5 hp gain on a ~100 whp car.
The gains I saw were compared to the baseline of the OBD1 w/ untuned S100 which was very similar to a previous dyno of the stock OBD2b ECU.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't believe a Hondata is able to read the a/f and timing tables off a stock ecu, so therefore any baseline program you start with is not starting off the stock ecu maps. It's starting off whatever maps your baseline program contains. Therefore any gains you may see can only be compared to your baseline program, not to the actual stock ecu.
So far I haven't seen any examples of any real gains to be had from tunning a hondata alone. All the gains I've noticed on this thread are due to hondata tuning in combination with other variables, such as for example a switch from OBD2 to OBD1, or the addition of head work, etc. The only thing that'll show that tuning the hondata is the only variable that resulted in some gains is if you take a car that was OBD1 stock, such as a '92 Civic, '94 GSR, '93 Integra, etc, do a couple of dyno runs, then swap out on the spot the stock ecu for your modified hondata ecu and do another couple of runs and compare the gains. I don't think taking a car that was originally OBDII, converting it to an OBDI and then tuning on that baseline (which is just some OBD1 arbitrary baseline program to begin with) is the same. Who knows how more (environmentally conservative?) the stock OBDII maps and parameters were, or how much of a role other more subtle variables associated with this swap played.
Also, the closer to stock your motor is and the less power it puts out stock, the smaller the gains (if any) you will be able to notice. A 5 hp gain on a ~200 whp hp car is equivalent to only a 2.5 hp gain on a ~100 whp car.
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Re: quick IT question. (Hracer)
Hracer arent you running hondata yourself? why im asking is if i remember correctly you were saying you were having hondata problems at the race a couple weekends ago and put in the stock ECU to get on the track during the race.
why im asking is why are you dissing hondata when you run it yourself..just asking.
why im asking is why are you dissing hondata when you run it yourself..just asking.
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Re: quick IT question. (JRDbuilt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JRDbuilt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why im asking is why are you dissing hondata when you run it yourself..just asking.</TD></TR></TABLE>
He's not "dissing" hondata. He owns a Hondata system. He also put the horse before the carriage and has a very well built motor, custom 4-1 header and downpipe, tremendous cage (i.e. rigid chassis), mondo shocks on the car, I think even spherical bearings where applicable, top shelf seat and the car has been on the dynos more than a couple times. He's added "that next piece," the Hondata - he added that last by the way and he certainly didn't have it when he ran in the 43s in last year's ARRC and sat outside front row for the start. There is some logic to that and that is what I have been trying to suggest here. By all means, if you feel like adding Hondata to your car at the front of the train, you are more than welcome to. I think it is a bad idea from a cost vs. returns perspective. I am all for ECU augmentation, quite simply in IT on most Hondas, its not buying you much at all - in some cases its rev limit, in others it might be a few pound feet of torque or one or two horsepower. But in the end, if its leading the train its assuredly money that could be used better elsewhere. That's the last of my kopecks taking me up to a full $.02 - it's been fun.
He's not "dissing" hondata. He owns a Hondata system. He also put the horse before the carriage and has a very well built motor, custom 4-1 header and downpipe, tremendous cage (i.e. rigid chassis), mondo shocks on the car, I think even spherical bearings where applicable, top shelf seat and the car has been on the dynos more than a couple times. He's added "that next piece," the Hondata - he added that last by the way and he certainly didn't have it when he ran in the 43s in last year's ARRC and sat outside front row for the start. There is some logic to that and that is what I have been trying to suggest here. By all means, if you feel like adding Hondata to your car at the front of the train, you are more than welcome to. I think it is a bad idea from a cost vs. returns perspective. I am all for ECU augmentation, quite simply in IT on most Hondas, its not buying you much at all - in some cases its rev limit, in others it might be a few pound feet of torque or one or two horsepower. But in the end, if its leading the train its assuredly money that could be used better elsewhere. That's the last of my kopecks taking me up to a full $.02 - it's been fun.
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Re: quick IT question. (phat-S)
good info. he seemed to be presenting a negative sense to it and that's why im asking. yes he is an amazing driver from what i have seen and heard. only wish i could be half as good. but right now it looks like i have a full intake , Throttle body ( i have it), header with full exhaust ( im staying mufflered for driving schools), i would like to do some ECU tuning and head work. but that is where im at right now in what i would like to / plan to do.
suspension, cage , and lightening is first of course.
suspension, cage , and lightening is first of course.
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Re: quick IT question. (phat-S)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phat-S »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">By all means, if you feel like adding Hondata to your car at the front of the train, you are more than welcome to. I think it is a bad idea from a cost vs. returns perspective. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Here's another perspective,
If you buy the Hondata first, spend a few hundred bucks to get it tuned (along with timing, etc., while you're there), you're going to have to go back to the dyno every time to get every ounce of HP from new mods you add. Might as well spend money on the motor and bolt-ons first, then tune it.
-Chris, Hondata fan.
Here's another perspective,
If you buy the Hondata first, spend a few hundred bucks to get it tuned (along with timing, etc., while you're there), you're going to have to go back to the dyno every time to get every ounce of HP from new mods you add. Might as well spend money on the motor and bolt-ons first, then tune it.
-Chris, Hondata fan.
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Re: quick IT question. (.RJ)
definately read that one wrong in the rule book then. and yes im working on my own skills .... that's why im building this car in steps.
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Re: quick IT question. (Chris F)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Here's another perspective,
If you buy the Hondata first, spend a few hundred bucks to get it tuned (along with timing, etc., while you're there), you're going to have to go back to the dyno every time to get every ounce of HP from new mods you add. Might as well spend money on the motor and bolt-ons first, then tune it.
-Chris, Hondata fan.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually, if doing "it" right, you should make dyno pulls with every new change. Only one change at a time. Then try all the different combinations that you can come up with. There really is no end to the combinations and testing, if the wallet holds out.
Rick
Here's another perspective,
If you buy the Hondata first, spend a few hundred bucks to get it tuned (along with timing, etc., while you're there), you're going to have to go back to the dyno every time to get every ounce of HP from new mods you add. Might as well spend money on the motor and bolt-ons first, then tune it.
-Chris, Hondata fan.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually, if doing "it" right, you should make dyno pulls with every new change. Only one change at a time. Then try all the different combinations that you can come up with. There really is no end to the combinations and testing, if the wallet holds out.
Rick
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Re: quick IT question. (Chris F)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If you buy the Hondata first, spend a few hundred bucks to get it tuned (along with timing, etc., while you're there), you're going to have to go back to the dyno every time to get every ounce of HP from new mods you add. Might as well spend money on the motor and bolt-ons first, then tune it.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yep, and unless that guy down the street with the dyno has decided to sponsor you, you can figure about $25 per pull on the dyno (or more).
That can add up in a hurry. If you're not careful you can look back and realize you just spent $600 for 4 whp.
So it makes sense for multitudes of reasons to do the ECU last.
Of course, it also makes sense just to run the earlier, lighter, OBD I chassis in the first place, but we've already established that keeping it simple and making sense aren't hammered up at the top of CJs priority list.
As far as the "dissing" comment is concerned...
The serious, hard core racers don't mince words and don't screw around. You (CJ) are probably used to the Honda web board "Thumbs up for a great mod y0" type stuff. Anything other than that is viewed as "dissing."
Thats not the way real racers work. Most of them have no problems giving the straight facts on something, even if they use it and like it.
Alex isn't saying Hondata is bad. What he's saying is that the $400+ you're going to spend on the system and dyno pulls could be much better spent elsewhere in the early build stages. And it is putting the cart before the horse.
In short... "I have it, it works, I like it, you shouldn't get it yet."
Yeah... Odd for the internet. But typical in these circles.
If you buy the Hondata first, spend a few hundred bucks to get it tuned (along with timing, etc., while you're there), you're going to have to go back to the dyno every time to get every ounce of HP from new mods you add. Might as well spend money on the motor and bolt-ons first, then tune it.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yep, and unless that guy down the street with the dyno has decided to sponsor you, you can figure about $25 per pull on the dyno (or more).
That can add up in a hurry. If you're not careful you can look back and realize you just spent $600 for 4 whp.
So it makes sense for multitudes of reasons to do the ECU last.
Of course, it also makes sense just to run the earlier, lighter, OBD I chassis in the first place, but we've already established that keeping it simple and making sense aren't hammered up at the top of CJs priority list.
As far as the "dissing" comment is concerned...
The serious, hard core racers don't mince words and don't screw around. You (CJ) are probably used to the Honda web board "Thumbs up for a great mod y0" type stuff. Anything other than that is viewed as "dissing."
Thats not the way real racers work. Most of them have no problems giving the straight facts on something, even if they use it and like it.
Alex isn't saying Hondata is bad. What he's saying is that the $400+ you're going to spend on the system and dyno pulls could be much better spent elsewhere in the early build stages. And it is putting the cart before the horse.
In short... "I have it, it works, I like it, you shouldn't get it yet."
Yeah... Odd for the internet. But typical in these circles.
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Re: quick IT question. (turfer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turfer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Actually, if doing "it" right, you should make dyno pulls with every new change. Only one change at a time. Then try all the different combinations that you can come up with. There really is no end to the combinations and testing, if the wallet holds out.
Rick </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yet another reason to go with a proven car if you are on a limited budget.
The 88-91 CRX Si for example... The book is written, the testing has all already been done. There are a couple of race shops in the US you can call and say "I'm building an 88 CRX for ITA" and they'll rattle of a list of the parts you need. If you do what they say, and you can drive, the car will be an instant contender.
You don't even need to bother with a dyno until its time for final tuning.
And I'm just going to point this out this one time, just for CJs reference, so he can get a perspective (hopefully) on what he's getting into...
Right now you could buy the ITA CRX that won the 2003 ARRC for $14500. Thats less money than you'll spend to even get a good start on your pet Civic project.
Just more reasons to not run a '96 Civic.
But... Whatever...
Actually, if doing "it" right, you should make dyno pulls with every new change. Only one change at a time. Then try all the different combinations that you can come up with. There really is no end to the combinations and testing, if the wallet holds out.
Rick </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yet another reason to go with a proven car if you are on a limited budget.
The 88-91 CRX Si for example... The book is written, the testing has all already been done. There are a couple of race shops in the US you can call and say "I'm building an 88 CRX for ITA" and they'll rattle of a list of the parts you need. If you do what they say, and you can drive, the car will be an instant contender.
You don't even need to bother with a dyno until its time for final tuning.
And I'm just going to point this out this one time, just for CJs reference, so he can get a perspective (hopefully) on what he's getting into...
Right now you could buy the ITA CRX that won the 2003 ARRC for $14500. Thats less money than you'll spend to even get a good start on your pet Civic project.
Just more reasons to not run a '96 Civic.
But... Whatever...
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Re: quick IT question. (Chris F)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here's another perspective,
If you buy the Hondata first, spend a few hundred bucks to get it tuned (along with timing, etc., while you're there), you're going to have to go back to the dyno every time to get every ounce of HP from new mods you add. Might as well spend money on the motor and bolt-ons first, then tune it.
-Chris, Hondata fan.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's a great perspective.
More people should digest it.
JRDbuilt, I'm not "dissing" Hondata. (In fact I try to rarely diss anything. lol) Yes we are trying it out this year. It's not a good idea to take the act of asking questions as a sign of approval, or disapproval, as you believed to be in this case. Just because I turn on my speakers and hear music playing doesn't mean that one event necessarily triggered the other. They could be completely independent of one another, or for that matter they could well be related, and you'd never know if you don't isolate all the variables. You do this by seeking out further information. So by being a little more familiar with the hondata system and having somewhat an idea of what it can and can't do, naturally I am curious what others have been able to accomplish with it and keeping track of all the variables that might have played a role. Like you I seek out information in order to learn new things and at the same time brought out to the table some of the things I thought were relevant to the discussion. My advice to you has been to not worry about an ecu upgrade until it's one of the last things you do to your ITA car. Once again, good thread.
If you buy the Hondata first, spend a few hundred bucks to get it tuned (along with timing, etc., while you're there), you're going to have to go back to the dyno every time to get every ounce of HP from new mods you add. Might as well spend money on the motor and bolt-ons first, then tune it.
-Chris, Hondata fan.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's a great perspective.
More people should digest it.JRDbuilt, I'm not "dissing" Hondata. (In fact I try to rarely diss anything. lol) Yes we are trying it out this year. It's not a good idea to take the act of asking questions as a sign of approval, or disapproval, as you believed to be in this case. Just because I turn on my speakers and hear music playing doesn't mean that one event necessarily triggered the other. They could be completely independent of one another, or for that matter they could well be related, and you'd never know if you don't isolate all the variables. You do this by seeking out further information. So by being a little more familiar with the hondata system and having somewhat an idea of what it can and can't do, naturally I am curious what others have been able to accomplish with it and keeping track of all the variables that might have played a role. Like you I seek out information in order to learn new things and at the same time brought out to the table some of the things I thought were relevant to the discussion. My advice to you has been to not worry about an ecu upgrade until it's one of the last things you do to your ITA car. Once again, good thread.
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Re: quick IT question. (Hracer)
Scott i cant afford 14k right now... ive made that clear, that is one reason i am building the car in stages. i really just want to get out there with a fun car and have fun. and build it up over time or as needed. i might have a chance with people helping me out with building it but idk and im not going to rely on it just incase it doesnt go through.
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Re: quick IT question. (JRDbuilt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JRDbuilt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Scott i cant afford 14k right now....</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok, I'm going to take one swing at this.
What is your top priority, CJ? Wrenching on/improving a car or racing a car?
Ok, I'm going to take one swing at this.
What is your top priority, CJ? Wrenching on/improving a car or racing a car?
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Re: quick IT question. (JRDbuilt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JRDbuilt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Scott i cant afford 14k right now... ive made that clear, that is one reason i am building the car in stages. i really just want to get out there with a fun car and have fun. and build it up over time or as needed.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
If that is the case, then just buy the car, stript the intertior and throw a cage in it and do nothing else, get your lisence and you have a legal ITA/C/B/S/Honda Challenger car. Will it be competitve no... will it be fun???? We'll that depends.
One of the reason I do not own a race car and am racing right now is I can't afford it, I want to be able to own a car that is competitive and give me a change to win. I want to tow it to the track, Why? Well if I had to drive it home I am bound to hold back, I want to be able to replace said car if I happen to stuff in a tire wall, and until I feel I can afford all of that I will not race?
Would it be fun to do what I mentioned above? Sure at first, while I was learning it would be, but as I got better it would be very frustrating to me as the car and lack of funds would be holding me back. The it would stop being fun and I don't want to risk it.
Modified by Solracer at 1:23 PM 3/8/2005
</TD></TR></TABLE>
If that is the case, then just buy the car, stript the intertior and throw a cage in it and do nothing else, get your lisence and you have a legal ITA/C/B/S/Honda Challenger car. Will it be competitve no... will it be fun???? We'll that depends.
One of the reason I do not own a race car and am racing right now is I can't afford it, I want to be able to own a car that is competitive and give me a change to win. I want to tow it to the track, Why? Well if I had to drive it home I am bound to hold back, I want to be able to replace said car if I happen to stuff in a tire wall, and until I feel I can afford all of that I will not race?
Would it be fun to do what I mentioned above? Sure at first, while I was learning it would be, but as I got better it would be very frustrating to me as the car and lack of funds would be holding me back. The it would stop being fun and I don't want to risk it.
Modified by Solracer at 1:23 PM 3/8/2005
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Re: quick IT question. (Solracer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Solracer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If that is the case, then just buy the car, stript the intertior and throw a cage in it and do nothing else, get your lisence and you have a legal ITA/C/B/S/Honda Challenger car. Will it be competitve no... will it be fun???? We'll that depends.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
fixed that for ya Dave.
If that is the case, then just buy the car, stript the intertior and throw a cage in it and do nothing else, get your lisence and you have a legal ITA/C/B/S/Honda Challenger car. Will it be competitve no... will it be fun???? We'll that depends.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
fixed that for ya Dave.
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Re: quick IT question. (JRDbuilt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JRDbuilt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Scott i cant afford 14k right now...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
And as I've already tried to tell you multiple times, if you can't afford $14k you shouldn't be trying to build an ITA car. ESPECIALLY not a 1996+ model ITA car.
Kirk had nearly $14K in his VW when it was still basically a completely STOCK car.
You are going to end up spending nearly twice that much to make that civic competitive, and if you start doing damage to components and bodywork replacements are going to be just that much more expensive on the newer car.
Hell, you'd be better off giving Karl $10K for his ITS GSR. All it needs is a motor rebuild and its ready to go for far less than you're going to spend to build that Civic from scratch.
Man, listen... Really...
And this is the last time I'm going to try this, after this you are on your own. But I think you are a nice guy and I'd really like to see you do this within your means and have fun. Instead, you are looking at potentially getting halfway through, running out of money, and ending up with an uncompetitive, caged, heavy, OBDII car that nobody wants and you can't afford to finish.
Are you prepared for this? Are you prepared to potentially throw away $10K or more on this project?
Do you even have $500+ per weekend to race the car in the first place (and thats assuming you only race at Road Atlanta and don't have travel and hotel expenses)?
What you really really really need to do is try to buy an ITB or ITC car that is already built. You can get good, competitive ones for $5000 to $6000 and they will be much less expensive to operate than that 2450lb Civic you are dying to build.
Trust me, even with a car that is already built you'll get to do all the wrenching you want. There's plenty of that on any race car.
There are several $5000ish ITB and ITC Hondas and VWs for sale in the SE right now. A multiple championship winning ITC Civic just sold for $5K.
But if you insist on spending 3 times that much to just get started because you like newer cars with clean lines... You go right ahead.
You can't afford it (by your own admission) and I'd bet with even odds that you'll never even get it to your first race, but you go right ahead.
Clean lines y0.
Scott, now officially washing his hands.
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And as I've already tried to tell you multiple times, if you can't afford $14k you shouldn't be trying to build an ITA car. ESPECIALLY not a 1996+ model ITA car.
Kirk had nearly $14K in his VW when it was still basically a completely STOCK car.
You are going to end up spending nearly twice that much to make that civic competitive, and if you start doing damage to components and bodywork replacements are going to be just that much more expensive on the newer car.
Hell, you'd be better off giving Karl $10K for his ITS GSR. All it needs is a motor rebuild and its ready to go for far less than you're going to spend to build that Civic from scratch.
Man, listen... Really...
And this is the last time I'm going to try this, after this you are on your own. But I think you are a nice guy and I'd really like to see you do this within your means and have fun. Instead, you are looking at potentially getting halfway through, running out of money, and ending up with an uncompetitive, caged, heavy, OBDII car that nobody wants and you can't afford to finish.
Are you prepared for this? Are you prepared to potentially throw away $10K or more on this project?
Do you even have $500+ per weekend to race the car in the first place (and thats assuming you only race at Road Atlanta and don't have travel and hotel expenses)?
What you really really really need to do is try to buy an ITB or ITC car that is already built. You can get good, competitive ones for $5000 to $6000 and they will be much less expensive to operate than that 2450lb Civic you are dying to build.
Trust me, even with a car that is already built you'll get to do all the wrenching you want. There's plenty of that on any race car.
There are several $5000ish ITB and ITC Hondas and VWs for sale in the SE right now. A multiple championship winning ITC Civic just sold for $5K.
But if you insist on spending 3 times that much to just get started because you like newer cars with clean lines... You go right ahead.
You can't afford it (by your own admission) and I'd bet with even odds that you'll never even get it to your first race, but you go right ahead.
Clean lines y0.
Scott, now officially washing his hands.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
From: Snellville, GA, US
Re: quick IT question. (Catch 22)
haha scott you gota' listen to somethings i say too! i never said competitive... remember im going with the heavy *** car . im going out there for fun! just to get some track time and ya ill blow 10k on some pointless pos ... i did it with my jetta. it got magazine coverage though and holds the unofficial record for most powerful stock n/a 2.0 in an MK4. but i have no problem with it. 10-15-20k ... racing really isnt a rational decision with money, i know i wont make it back with just racing alone but im hoping to just over time learn the knowledge i will be to be successful.
thanks for the advice once again scott, you've given me tons of useful knowledge and others on here as well. ive taken all of it into account and i have a very good idea where im going to take my car with the whole ITA thing.
thanks.
and any other advice or questions / answers is still welcome
thanks for the advice once again scott, you've given me tons of useful knowledge and others on here as well. ive taken all of it into account and i have a very good idea where im going to take my car with the whole ITA thing.
thanks.
and any other advice or questions / answers is still welcome
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,605
Likes: 0
Re: quick IT question. (JRDbuilt)
You're better off just doing HPDE. With you're budget even if you do race uncompetitively the build you will be able to do with 14k for an ITA car probably won't even get you within 10 seconds per lap of a top car.
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,400
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: quick IT question. (ryan12321)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ryan12321 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You're better off just doing HPDE.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I was wondering if JRDbuilt has any performance driving experience at all? HPDE? Autocross? There's no need for a race prepped car to work on your driving skills.
I was wondering if JRDbuilt has any performance driving experience at all? HPDE? Autocross? There's no need for a race prepped car to work on your driving skills.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 728
Likes: 0
From: CLT, USA
Re: quick IT question. (JRDbuilt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JRDbuilt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im hoping to just over time learn the knowledge i will be to be successful.
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You mean successful with the car you are choosing? I think if you read over this thread from front to back a few times youll find plenty of knowledge that will help you become successful, it doesn't seem like you are using it though, in one ear out the other, just an observation, good luck.
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You mean successful with the car you are choosing? I think if you read over this thread from front to back a few times youll find plenty of knowledge that will help you become successful, it doesn't seem like you are using it though, in one ear out the other, just an observation, good luck.