vectorsolid

I'm trying to put a cage in my car. Hang with me, I've been digesting so much cage information over the last 48 hours I'm about to overload. I need to order tubing in the morning and I'm just checking, ONE LAST TIME. I have a 2100 pound car in H1.

section 15.6 Roll cage
http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf

rule says:
1501 - 2500 lbs.
1.500” x 0.095” Seamless Alloy (4130), Seamless mild steel (CDS Mechanical) or DOM
1.500” x 0.120” ERW* (No issuance of log books for cars with ERW cages 04/30/03)
*Note- Specifications listed for reference for inspection of grandfathered vehicles.

they allow 1.5" diameter 4130 AND/OR mild steel to be same wall thickness .095, NOT a different thickness for mild steel, is that correct? I'm only asking because it's not that way with NHRA cages where mild steel has to be thicker and moly allowed thinner. I'm just checking to make sure that's accurate.

My question on nascar door bars. I can find no listing for maximum or minimum height above the sill or below the window opening. Or how high near the shoulder or anything I am more familiar with. Or how many vertical bars to connect in between them, or their thicknesses and frequency. If there is an option, I'm leaning toward 3 side bars, one right at the sill and 2 higher up and well into the door that's gutted. Possibly weld the bar nearest the sill, to the sill, and potentially use 2 vertical uprights between each horizontal door bar. Any direction would be helpful with that information.

ScottBell

iTrader: (1)

You are reading it right on the wall thickness. You might also want to check the SCCA GCR. Off the top of my head they require the thicker DOM, and a SCCA log book couldn't hurt the resale of the car. Plus, since SCCA accepts NASA comp licenses you might want to make a race with them sometime.

There are no rules on the door bars, other than there are two of them.

The first pic is just as legal as the second. There are 3 bars in the bottom pic, but just the top two would make a legal cage.

914Racer

WOW, that top pictures is very scary, guess they don't care about their driver's safety.

AS to your question. SCCA no longer has a different specification for 4130. You can build your car with 1.5x.095 or 1.75x.095 I have used both in different applications. 1.5 is easier to fit tightly against the body.

As to the NASCAR bars, Since I don't use them when I build cages, I can't give you much info, but remember entrance and egress for the driver as well as the normal bumper heights for the cars your racing against. Position them as high as possible for protection and as low as to allow the driver easy entrance and escape. If you have a fat driver you will need more clearance for the driver.

Lo-Buck EF

+1 for the highest bars you can stand.

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

the top on is the passenger side. unless you want the nascar on both sides thats acceptable.
Sketchy though!

ScottBell

iTrader: (1)

When I got this car the drivers side looked like the pax side, but the cage was built to be relatively streetable by the previous owner. I upgraded the cage, then destroyed the car the next race, lol.

I really don't see the need for any door bar requirements on the pax side of the car, because if anything intrudes that far you are f'ed anyway.

edit: I think the two pics are a good example of what will pass tech vs. what you really want to run while racing.

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

Ahhhh I see. streetability. makes sense to have it lower. But i agree the pax side isnt as vital as the drivers side.

DB2-R81

With height you also need to consider your ability to egress between the top of the window frame and the door bars. If the bars are to high in the case of a fire you are not getting out before you are beyond well done! Shouldn't take you anymore than 10 sec to be completely clear of the car from a belted in position with all safety gear on.

vectorsolid

Cool. When I set those heights for the nascar bars, I'll measure up a bunch of stuff and strike a happy medium. I like the nascar stuff because it gives the driver more room. AND, if it's crumpling and absorbing energy, it's a few more inches away while it's doing it. Makes good sense in my minds eye.

I checked my tubing stock. lot's of 1.625 - 1.75 in .120 and lots of 1.5 in .083, ain't that how it goes.

I'm ordering tubing in the morning. picking up 1.5" .095 DOM.

ScottBell

iTrader: (1)

There is an actual egress time requirement in the CCR. From belted in with full gear, you have to be able to get out of the car in a certain amount of time. They have one time for door open and one for exiting through the window. I would love to see tech checking this one day, lots of good footage for youtube.

Atmosfear

iTrader: (18)

Where are you racing H1? Ive met you guys a few times at Speedfactory.

I didnt know you were road racers? Congrats on your IFO time by the way.

vectorsolid

I think we secretly suspected it, but having done it now. Yea, good bang for the buck. Lot's of seat time with less mess than dirt track racing. I like that A LOT! I hate mud and crud.

I'm not entirely sure where all this H1 shenanigans happens. Miller for sure. And then there is all the iscsssccss or whatever it is all around Washington and the Pacific northwest.

we're gonna build for H1, and it "seems" to be, that the car will work a lot of places including SCCA. I don't particularly care if we bring a knife to a gunfight at this point, that can all be changed later. Just want to make sure that the "core" of the build makes as many sanctioning bodys happy as possible, thinkgs like the cage and safety equipment. Motors can change.

Thanks. finally, some good luck.