ref??
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,507
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From: City of Gangsters and Broken Dreams
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,507
Likes: 0
From: City of Gangsters and Broken Dreams
Re: ref??
Yes, the B20 is a truck motor, yes, it is an illegal swap. Conventional wisdom would agree with you, however, we use propane gas to pass any engine swap in any car.
There are legal ways to smog a B20.
Read on......
Illegal B20 swap + propane gas = Alternative Fueled Emissions compliant engine swap. Alternative fuel is the key word here, forget the motor swap, with Alternative fuel, it is all about making the swap run clean. Even if the engine swap is a turbo GSR, Standalone with ITB's, once it is run on propane, all the performance mods are now legal because you can argue that the GSR, turbo, Standalone and ITB's are needed to take advantage of propane's 110 octane rating. This is cutting edge here, just because this is a loophole that is not commonly used, doesn't mean that it is BS.
Keep in mind that, once you remove the propane and re-tune your setup to run on 91 octane pump gas, you are no longer 100% legal, but wait, there's more.... here is the good part.... the BAR referee sticker in your engine compartment doesn't specify fuel. So, when Johnny law does pull you over, all they do is scratch their heads and wonder how you BAR ref'd a turbo GSR, Standalone with ITB's....
Besides BAR reffing your engine swap there is another interesting loophole that keeps Johnny Law off your back, it is called smog exemption, this exemption is a one time emissions test on propane that certifies your vehicle as an Alternative fueled vehicle and smog exempts the vehicle FOREVER, with smog exemption, you will NEVER have to smog your vehicle ever again, even when you sell it. Smog exemption is a legal loophole that smog exempts your vehicle forever, no more fooling around with shady emissions shops.
If you look hard enough, there are legal loopholes for everything. Laws, mandates, regulations and government protocols are written by attorneys with legal loopholes and/ oversights written in, that allow everyday citizens to drive, smog, register and import any vehicle ever made on the face of this planet.
For the record, smog exemption, carb exemption, and BAR reffing are 3 completely different processes, these terms cannot be interchanged. BAR reffing, by far, is the most difficult and useless certification. Smog and Carb exemption are far better than a BAR ref'd swap because a BAR ref'd swap still must undergo strict emissions testing, while the smog/carb exempted vehicle doesn't. Also, Johnny Law can ref ticket a Bar ref'd car, but not a carb exempted car. The simple definition of a carb exempted car is a car that is exempted from all carb emissions mandates.
Basically, local law enforcement can pop your hood, but, because the vehicle is both smog/carb exempt, it is therefore emissions compliant regardless of what turbo
k20, GSR or b18 engine swap you may have, a smog/carb exempted car can legally drive around with a fully built turbo GSR with no emissions controls, and never get a referee ticket.
You gotta pay $$$$$$$$ to play.......
There are legal ways to smog a B20.
Read on......
Illegal B20 swap + propane gas = Alternative Fueled Emissions compliant engine swap. Alternative fuel is the key word here, forget the motor swap, with Alternative fuel, it is all about making the swap run clean. Even if the engine swap is a turbo GSR, Standalone with ITB's, once it is run on propane, all the performance mods are now legal because you can argue that the GSR, turbo, Standalone and ITB's are needed to take advantage of propane's 110 octane rating. This is cutting edge here, just because this is a loophole that is not commonly used, doesn't mean that it is BS.
Keep in mind that, once you remove the propane and re-tune your setup to run on 91 octane pump gas, you are no longer 100% legal, but wait, there's more.... here is the good part.... the BAR referee sticker in your engine compartment doesn't specify fuel. So, when Johnny law does pull you over, all they do is scratch their heads and wonder how you BAR ref'd a turbo GSR, Standalone with ITB's....
Besides BAR reffing your engine swap there is another interesting loophole that keeps Johnny Law off your back, it is called smog exemption, this exemption is a one time emissions test on propane that certifies your vehicle as an Alternative fueled vehicle and smog exempts the vehicle FOREVER, with smog exemption, you will NEVER have to smog your vehicle ever again, even when you sell it. Smog exemption is a legal loophole that smog exempts your vehicle forever, no more fooling around with shady emissions shops.
If you look hard enough, there are legal loopholes for everything. Laws, mandates, regulations and government protocols are written by attorneys with legal loopholes and/ oversights written in, that allow everyday citizens to drive, smog, register and import any vehicle ever made on the face of this planet.
For the record, smog exemption, carb exemption, and BAR reffing are 3 completely different processes, these terms cannot be interchanged. BAR reffing, by far, is the most difficult and useless certification. Smog and Carb exemption are far better than a BAR ref'd swap because a BAR ref'd swap still must undergo strict emissions testing, while the smog/carb exempted vehicle doesn't. Also, Johnny Law can ref ticket a Bar ref'd car, but not a carb exempted car. The simple definition of a carb exempted car is a car that is exempted from all carb emissions mandates.
Basically, local law enforcement can pop your hood, but, because the vehicle is both smog/carb exempt, it is therefore emissions compliant regardless of what turbo
k20, GSR or b18 engine swap you may have, a smog/carb exempted car can legally drive around with a fully built turbo GSR with no emissions controls, and never get a referee ticket.
You gotta pay $$$$$$$$ to play.......
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,308
Likes: 0
From: where mudguards die
Re: ref??
thats the thing people always say you can do this and that and when you go to the ref its a different story. just call state ref and find out for yourself its easier instead of sombody feeding you bs and then you get your hopes up you know
Last edited by tum tum 209; Apr 23, 2009 at 09:24 AM.
I'm really 2slow
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,987
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From: near Laguna Seca CA, USA
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 381
Likes: 0
From: Santa Clara, CA, USA
Re: ref??
This is odd...
I heard as long as the motor is of same year or newer, the motor was offered in that car, and it has all o2 sensors/smog control devices etc. plugged in, you should be okay?
Where can we read about these laws and who votes for them to be in place?
Maybe this is just a way to get people to just buy new cars instead of fixing the old ones.
I heard as long as the motor is of same year or newer, the motor was offered in that car, and it has all o2 sensors/smog control devices etc. plugged in, you should be okay?
Where can we read about these laws and who votes for them to be in place?
Maybe this is just a way to get people to just buy new cars instead of fixing the old ones.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,768
Likes: 0
From: gold rust on my mugen rims
Re: ref??
So in all, this makes the ref's job easier.
All they need to do is inspect the veh. and make sure all the vacuum hoses and correct year smog equipment is there and then we just run off to get our car smogged.
Next question is if the car has already been smogged previously do we still need to go and do it again once receiving a ref ticket.
Say my registration was up in May. Veh. was smogged for registration. A month afterwards I get a ref. ticket from a cop after the visual do I need to smog the veh. again?
All they need to do is inspect the veh. and make sure all the vacuum hoses and correct year smog equipment is there and then we just run off to get our car smogged.
Next question is if the car has already been smogged previously do we still need to go and do it again once receiving a ref ticket.
Say my registration was up in May. Veh. was smogged for registration. A month afterwards I get a ref. ticket from a cop after the visual do I need to smog the veh. again?
Last edited by vega_ROCKS; May 1, 2009 at 07:04 PM.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,308
Likes: 0
From: where mudguards die
Re: ref??
well the modesto ref said it might not last that long because he said that its causing alot of problems. because its not just cars that cant be ref'ed its goes all the way to shippers and sellers of jdm motors, also distributors. its a big deal so i guess it may not be for that long seeing as its a huge uproar but i dunno. thinking of selling my car now
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,768
Likes: 0
From: gold rust on my mugen rims
Re: ref??
I thought about that too.
but I'm not going to let a tiny problem like this ruin my hobby. As long as we do everything legally we will have no problem.
Sure cops will pull you over just because they way our car looks but once they find out all they can give me is a fix it ticket for my car being to low. I'll just flip them the vbird as drive off in my perfectly legal car with bar'd stickers and all.
but I'm not going to let a tiny problem like this ruin my hobby. As long as we do everything legally we will have no problem.
Sure cops will pull you over just because they way our car looks but once they find out all they can give me is a fix it ticket for my car being to low. I'll just flip them the vbird as drive off in my perfectly legal car with bar'd stickers and all.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,948
Likes: 0
From: ca, U.S.A
Re: ref??
we appreciate all this info 
So how does the ref figure out what year the engine is? do they run the vin and/or hook up a obd scanner?
So how does the ref figure out what year the engine is? do they run the vin and/or hook up a obd scanner?
Last edited by GR_DC2; May 1, 2009 at 03:33 PM.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,948
Likes: 0
From: ca, U.S.A
Re: ref??
So, do they run the vin to figure the year? i always get different answers. the weirdest answer when i called in to the ARB was that you have to bring in the registration of the car the motor was in previously, this is how they will know that the motor was from the correct car and year. I had never heard this before and it totally doesn't seem like the best way to determine whether a motor is good to be in your car are not.
I was thinking they would run the VIN, but then i wondered how they used to legalize JDM motors if they don't have vins. i understand ppl added all of the US smog equipment, but how did they determine the year of the jdm motor?
I was thinking they would run the VIN, but then i wondered how they used to legalize JDM motors if they don't have vins. i understand ppl added all of the US smog equipment, but how did they determine the year of the jdm motor?
Last edited by GR_DC2; May 1, 2009 at 03:33 PM.
