WAFFLES

Building a n/a B16A, what is better for road racing, mid-range power or pure top end? Why? I'm trying to decide on what components to use in this buildup, and for the most part I know what I'm going to use.

For all of you physics geeks, please take the time to explain why you said mid-range or topend power is better. Examples would be nice too.


Thanks, Blake....

Here to help as well as learn.

JaeOne3345

mid range. if u ever autox'd or done track events on tracks that can get tight, then u know how it is slowing down excessively and needing to power out of a turn. u need that umph in the lower region to help push that *** on up to speed again. but dont get confused, dont think that top end is straight out the door at all cuz its not.

there are some tracks/ events where u r gonna rely on high end power just as much, im talking about really fast tracks with more sweepers and high speed straights then tight lines.

try to build something with a balance of both as best as u can.

the b16a is a good motor. u may not want to possess the mentality that bigger is better regarding the camshafts u choose. u dont wanna be like 'well the duration and lift on these is huge and the top end off the hook, the must be good'. u gotta find a cam with a balance of both. to my knowledge cams like the spoon cams fit in this range. on a budget? cant go wrong with ctr/itr cams u dont want some cam that only gets busy starting at 7k rpm.lol. i think high compression is necessary in any NA build up, keeping in mind to tailor your compression ratio to the fuel u have most commonly and affordably available. a nice tight gear box such as the b16a's and type R's are good choices, and can be improved upon even more with the use of cross gear sets and higher final drives. pick and choose wisely . u dont wanna be buzzin too high along the freeway either. i dont think u can go wrong with a itr intake amni and aem cold air. headers? how much money u got to spend. maybe somethin like the jdm4-1 either honda or dc will tickle your fancy on a budget. then u got the spoon,sms, toda, etc etc headers. in the an-r header threads, people say the midrange is no worse then the jdm4-1 (i cant speak on it). and that header most likely no doubt rips top end too so there u might have a balance. (dont quote me on this).

better yet, follow roger Foo's b16a build up done by omni. i think that set up included some pretty affordable oem parts like ctr pistons etc etc.

WAFFLES

sweet...thanks Jae....I was considering a B&B bottomend with stock pistons, and a Mugen headgasket. My cams are either going to be CTR or Skunk2 stage 1. I plan on either a JDM ITR 4-1 or Comptech 4-2-1...I haven't decided yet. Aswell as better gearing. Keep the comments coming guys.

Maximus

How much money do you have for your buildup? Instead of using stock pistons you should invest in some ctr pistons or even forged ctr pistons by Probe. For the cams you should get the skunk2 stage 1's since they are a little more aggressive than the ctr's and should put out some better numbers. also as for the header you can get a jdm dc 4-1 for pretty cheap which is the same as the jdm itr 4-1 but lighter. As for where the power is needed I would say mid range is important and so is throttle response. pure top end will benefit in drag racing and long tracks but the mid range will be needed on any track.

Go to http://www.importreview.com to see some 1.6 liter dyno charts.

Good luck

WAFFLES

bump

Katman

with a B16A your lookin at high-midrange (closer to top end) to top end power. But you can make up for midrange with better gearing, ala final drive which gives you a better torquey feel from low-mid range.

I built my B17 for daily driver/grip race setup back in '99 with this in mind. I went with a high compression engine setup and a ITR tranny w/4.785 final drive. I still miss it to this day (car was stolen in '00)...it was a fun motor. I went with a B17 also, because not only is it a kind of rare bastard child of the b-series, but it makes a little more torque than a B16A.

and as far as which is better for road racing (mid range or top end), most of the time mid-range, but....it also depends on the track. Some track are very tight and windy, like Streets of Willow, where mid-range would be a must. Then there's tracks like Buttonwillow which has a mixture of high speed areas and low speed/tight turns....which is good to have both mid-range and top end power. But usually when you build a B-series engine, you gain in both mid-range and top-end areas. I guess it mainly depends on which camshafts and header you decide to go with, after thinkin about it. I personally like to have more mid-range power for daily driving; get up and go power at the blip of da trauttle..


[Modified by Katman, 8:49 AM 11/5/2002]

TodaCivic

I'd say like a couple other guys said... a combo of both.
You could get the toda a's or b's and advance the intake cam and get awesome low end ...yet still pulling to 8k or more...or 9k and make 90% of your peak power still.
I say a nice 2.5" collector header, CTR or JE pistons so you can get 11.0+ compression and more torque.
You need as much torque as you can get the b16 to muster ...trust me... to pull you out of those slow corners.
I think you also should get a b16/ITR tranny for the closer ratios, which will help on the track.
It's really up to you tho, CTR pistons and cams, dc jdm 4-1, vafc and chipped ecu would also be a very nice setup and cost alot less.
It's a fun revving motor to run and sounds wicked at 9k.
Good luck on your project.

BTW i had a 180whp/120wta b16a2 ...toda b;s, mugen headgasket, SMS header, 2.5" exhaust, vafc, ecu, portflow valvetrain and itr i.m.
It was awesome to hear it pull to 9k....sounded like my cbr going to 12k, but even fuly tuned it lacked torque.. but it was in a 2600+lb si-bus... in a 1800lb hatch like i have now it'd be totally diffrent...and maybe i wouldn't have felt i needed more tq.
Tho with my setup if i had done ctr or JE pistons it wouldve been 185-190 and maybe 125... which in a light *** hatch would rule, just something for you to think about.


[Modified by TodaCivic, 12:02 PM 11/5/2002]

WAFFLES

Yeah like I was saying it will be CTR or Skunk2 Stage 1 cams in a stock b16a head. I am going to rebuild the bottom end but I think I am going to use the CTR pistons for more compression, instead of the stock p30s like I had planned. So with all of this in mind, which header would be best, Comptech or JDM ITR? I'm shooting for around 180-190 whp....

TodaCivic

I would say DC jdm 4-1 ... it has a 2.5" collector and seems to makes good power for what it costs.
Mine as well get Skunk2 stage 1's and CTR pistons...it should get you near 180 whp with chipped ecu and vafc and tuning.

Maximus

The jdm dc 4-1 is a great product for the price. $275 plus shipping from me, you can't beat that. The comptech is great cause its a 4-2-1 header for the mid range hp but it has a 2.25 inch collector which can restrict flow at high whp.