'05 SubyD

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sohcMONSTER &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">get what you can afford........and be happy with that</TD></TR></TABLE>

Mar_DC2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SwampThing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow mr. teal nice reply you cant even come up with a reason for your diagreement.

and to the guy who said you cant source a b series swap for 1000 must not be looking because thats all you have todo is look</TD></TR></TABLE>

actually i have looked, the cheapest i've found an OBD-II B16A swap is $1,900 and thats without the intermediate shaft, engine harness, mounts, and distributor. that plus the cost of a shop installing it since i dont have the equipment. even if i could find the equipment, i wouldnt have the time that it would take for me to learn how to swap it since i've never swapped an engine. i'm a full time student and work 20+ hours a week and i have to drive 20 miles for both, i cant afford that kind of downtime.

dampachi

sohc turbo
the reason behind that is mainly due to financial reasons... i just graduated high school and im sure college will be draining a lot more of the little money that i have

Jesse 99EK

I think turbo D's are kinda cool.

It's like the handicaped guy that runs the marathon. Even though he finishes last, everyone still claps for him cause he gave it all he had.

Naw, just kidding. Going turbo on a sohc is a good idea. There such a huge aftermarket for both sohc & dohc engines, either way you'll have fun. And D blocks are cheap.

EGmikeH22

steal ( P ) Pronunciation Key (stl)
v. stole, (stl) sto·len, (stln) steal·ing, steals
v. tr.
To take (the property of another) without right or permission.
To get or effect surreptitiously or artfully: steal a kiss; stole the ball from an opponent.

steel ( P ) Pronunciation Key (stl)
n.
A generally hard, strong, durable, malleable alloy of iron and carbon, usually containing between 0.2 and 1.5 percent carbon, often with other constituents such as manganese, chromium, nickel, molybdenum, copper, tungsten, cobalt, or silicon, depending on the desired alloy properties, and widely used as a structural material.
Something, such as a sword, that is made of steel.

(dictionary.com)
-sry to be the dick, but that was obvious. and why leave out that h22a in the dohc lineup, you can get them for 2500 shipped with lsd, and build them with a turbo and stock internals for less money and with more power than either of the suggested set-ups.

peiku

a boosted sohc will make almost the same power as a boosted b18b. the sohc might need a little more boltons but its not that far behind. even greddy states that on their site.

i also believe that gearing plays a big part in how fast a car is. let say a boosted sohc runs low 14's in an eg, i am willing to bet that if you were to put that same boosted sohc into an ef and use the ex/si tranny, it would be atleast a high 13 sec car afterwards. ef gears are noticeably shorter. i know. i use to have an 88 crx si. the gearing is almost like a dohcvtec's.

heres an example. my crx ran 15.6 with 170k, leaking headgasket, ebay intake, ebay muffler welded onto stock exhaust piping, hp racing header, and an 89 integ ecu. my 92 d16z6 vx hatch (pretty much the same weight as the crx) ran 15.5 with ebay cold air intake, hp racing header, greddy sp 70mm catback, ES motor mount inserts, and compression of 195 all across. i know that my crx had like 95whp, 100whp max. my vx probably had around 115whp. i have a dynosheet of the vx but that was a couple of boltons after the 15.5. both car were running the same rims and tires, 94 gsr rims with h-rated falken ziex's.

now how can you explain the near similar times? weight? no, cus they both way the same. hp? obviously not. suspension? probably not (crx had skunk2 coilover and the vx had h&r springs, nothing else). temp? nope cus its was the same time of year for each car, the first importday at our local track. the only logical conclusion would be the gearing. for some reason people tend to think that all sohc gearing are the same. you will probably only notice the difference if you had owned both. some will say, yeah the d16z6 can rev till 7.2k rpm. well i was using an 89 integ ecu and i took it up to 7k rpm when i felt like it. its just not as strong cus theres no vtec to help.

if a boosted z6/y8 were in an ef and raced that b18c5, the b18c5 would have been roasted. bring it on. plus you guys dont even take torque into consideration. my turbo z6 makes 179 whp and 144 wtq at 6psi on a small little t28 turbo. and thats with a conservative tune. now take your 176 whp b18c5 and see how much torque it can make. what? maybe like 120 max and at like 7.6k rpm or so. i make 144 at 4k rpm. thats why i will roast your b18c5 on first and second. dohcvtec's are nothing till they get into 3rd gear. by the time you come close the 1/4 is already over.

<U>heres a price comparison.</U>

intake is free from your old sohc days and so is exhuast. clutch won count cus you will need a new one for both. no stolen parts included.

b18c1 swap - i will be nice and say $3000. for your $3000, you will run what, high 14's stock.

turbo sohc
basic turbo kit - $1400
intercooler - $300
hondata w/boost - $500
rc inj - $200

i have only spent $2400 and i run low 14's in an eg, high 13's if in an ef. now tell me why this sounds stupid.

ok you may say, hey thats not fair hes turbo. im gonna go turbo too. ok add $2600 for a full turbo kit and use the gay fmu method. now what happens? ok mister b18c1 finally get boosted and is faster.

ok i will use that $2600 and semi-build my block. rods, pistons, blockgaurd/posting, p&p head, head studs, upgrade turbo, and still have some $ left over.

you may say agian, hey thats not fair, his block is semi-built. i want one too.
rods/piston - $800
blockguard/posts - $100
p&p $500
head studs - $100
hondata - $500
rc inj - $200
$2200 later youre finally faster. what? 375whp max with stock sleeves and blockguard.

well ill take that $2200, get my block sleeved, blueprinted, balanced, kife-edged crank, o-ringed, and axles with $2200 budget. i have what? 400+hp.

now this is just a price comparsion. of course the dohc vtec's will have more potential. its a bigger motor. if you have all this money to spend, then by all means go for it.

$3000 for a 150whp b18c1 swap or $2400 for a 180whp turbo sohc. whats so hard about that. dont just get a swap cus everyone has one. its just like all those people that have those played out muegn/rota rims. turbo sohcs will always spend less money than turbo dohcs to make just about the same power in the long run. and will always spend less when the motors blow. just want to say that there are other options out there.

oh yeah here are my dynosheets if anyone is interested.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=858737

drewbie

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EGmikeH22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
(dictionary.com)
-sry to be the dick, but that was obvious. and why leave out that h22a in the dohc lineup, you can get them for 2500 shipped with lsd, and build them with a turbo and stock internals for less money and with more power than either of the suggested set-ups.


</TD></TR></TABLE>

I left out H22 because it requires a mount kit and is not the direct bolt in as the b series and d series are.

plus I think its a lot hard to work around.
I also dont think there are any AC manifolds out there for a h22 civic. I know there are ones for a d series and prolly a b series

chad

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by peiku &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

a boosted sohc will make almost the same power as a boosted b18b. the sohc might need a little more boltons but its not that far behind. even greddy states that on their site.


if a boosted z6/y8 were in an ef and raced that b18c5, the b18c5 would have been roasted. bring it on. plus you guys dont even take torque into consideration. my turbo z6 makes 179 whp and 144 wtq at 6psi on a small little t28 turbo. and thats with a conservative tune. now take your 176 whp b18c5 and see how much torque it can make. what? maybe like 120 max and at like 7.6k rpm or so. i make 144 at 4k rpm. thats why i will roast your b18c5 on first and second. dohcvtec's are nothing till they get into 3rd gear. by the time you come close the 1/4 is already over.

[]</TD></TR></TABLE>


well my bone stock itr with a header put down 191 and 131.....tq was at 3000.....13 more tq is not gonna touch me.....and you forget gearing is involved too!!!!!

Happyman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


well my bone stock itr with a header put down 191 and 131.....tq was at 3000.....13 more tq is not gonna touch me.....and you forget gearing is involved too!!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not saying your lying but I have a hard time believing(sp) a bone stock itr made 191/131 with just a header.

Sliced Beard

it does if the header he used is a badass header and the car is tuned

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Night_Minx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Trust me, i have great respect for Sir Chad. I voted for the beast as the best all around car on HT cus as we both know....SHOWKAAS SUCK....I mean really ******* suck. Like as much suck as it would be if i lived in Iraq. ANd that machine is prolly the top example of how hondas should be.</TD></TR></TABLE>


when chad first got his ITR swap in his hatch I drove it for the first two days it was in teh car . i got to drive it home before he did, that was because my car was in parts in the back of the shop and i did not have a way home and he had to drive a turbo car to break the engine in properly. All i can say is that his car may not be the prettiest but it is definately a very capable car with teh suspension he has and the engine setup he has. It handles WAYYYY better than any of my cars have ever handled

Cain Marko

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slowdx9585 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

thought you wanted to turbo the LS?</TD></TR></TABLE>

i dunno, something about a car with 13:1 cr screaming in some little kids face, ahh reminds me of my mother

blackeg

my ENTIRE d16z6 turbo setup cost me between 2200-2300. built block on top of that would be about another 1000-1200(all labor done by me). so like 4grand max will hold you to around 300whp or a little more. 4000 will buy you a gsr swap and perhaps a header or something like that. 150 or so whp or 250+whp. if the money is available, you'd have to be crazy not to go dohc and build that. if u dont want 300+whp, but more than 175 or so, sohc turbo is perrrfect. and btw, the sound of a spooling turbo and a nice bov blowing off is just flat out sexy

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

you move to atlanta...and i still have my stock ITR swap with aftermarket header i will own your 6 psi!!!!
as long as you are at stock bore</TD></TR></TABLE>

chad:

If you do not still have your car you may borrow my silver hatchback if it's suitable for you. I'm not sure how you'll like my 425F, 550R rates with no front bar and 14mm rear swaybar and only 176whp, but if you liked the way it drove you could borrow it.

I should have been more clear when I stated the N/A 200whp car would beat the boosted 200whp car in all of those areas. I'm not a good road course driver - never claimed to be. I meant to say that drivers being equal, I'd bet the N/A car would still be quicker and would definately last longer doing so.

boostincoupe

A lot of people don't realize that part of the whole SOHC vs. DOHC debate is biased because a lot of civics (like mine) come with SOHCs, which makes it that much more cost effective to go with a SOHC-T setup (like I am).

Plus SOHCs are a dime a dozen. I'm about to pick up a 37,000 mile D16Y8 complete shortblock for $50

inane

i like turbo...

my evo7 and s15 are both turbo... im going to either get a replacement d16y8 and turbo it or get a b16a with 8.4:1 compression and turbo it... as for my prelude, i think im going to build an all NA setup for it...


Modified by imk at 5:35 PM 7/8/2004

Pikachu

I totally agree with the fact that it's what you can afford. I personally like boost... I've lost count how much I've spent on my setup.... turbo H22 hatch.

chezicrator

For those of you saying that turbo sohc is unreliable.. it all depends on how well you know your setup. The problem with your common SOHC build is that people try to cut one too many corners. The key to reliability when it comes to turbo is your fuel management. If you through together a junk yard setup and run it with an FMU at 7psi you're bound to destroy something. If you take the right steps and use Hondata/Uberdata with injectors and a FMIC then you'll be fine.

I had a d16z6 93 Del Sol with a greddy kit at 10psi on rc440's tuned with Hondata. Now of course you can't expect to redline 3-4 times a day at max boost. That's what boost controllers and turbo timers are for. I hate hearing that turbo automatically = not reliable.. that's entirely not true.

As far as the SOHC v DOHC debate. It depends on your long term goals and how much money you're willing to dish out. If you don't have a bling bling job or worse yet, some rich *** parents, then you can't exactly look to do a built b18c with a turbo kit. Now like someone stated it's obvious 2 cams is better than 1, that's just fact. Dollar for dollar though I think an SOHC turbo would rape most DOHC setups. Remember not everyone has the supar hook-up.

Right now I have a 95 ex coupe that I got from my insurance after the sol got wrecked. This d16 has a little over 150k miles on it so I'm definately looking into a swap. I was so sure that I wanted to get myself a b16 but after reading around for the kind of numbers they yield I'm really starting to debate putting another d16 back in there.

Maybe someone could help me in making my decision. The things available to me are as follows:

Full 2nd gen JDM b16a swap (installed): a little over 3200.
Full JDM B18c swap (installed): a little over 4200.
D16 swap (installed): a little over 1100.
Full Greddy Turbo kit (includes FMIC, BOV, TT, BC, MANAGEMENT): roughly 2500

I pay about 700 to have any engine installed. The turbo kit wouldn't be all brand new (the fmic and hondata would).

I was hoping to drop a b16 and turbo charge that but after reading that they only yield about 220whp and I'm getting mixed vibes on exactly how reliable that would be even with proper management. I'm under the impression that the b16 wouldn't react to boost as well as the d16.

What can I say I'm a BOOST FREAK. I learned to drive in my friend's 95 GS-T. For those of you that say 200hp is sufficient.. just.. blah. That GST was boosting about 15-17 psi and yielded roughly 250-270 (not a DSM guru). THAT **** IS PRETTY QUICK. Here in Miami when you're seeing G35's, and SRT-4's all day long even 250 doesn't seem to be enough.

With that said, what do you think would be my best option as far as boost is concerned. My mech has told me time and time again to ditch the D, but I honestly don't see the value in the B unless you're willing to drop thousands into it. I myself have about 3k saved up right now. I plan on dropping another 2k into "speed" and then I want to focus on things like suspension and brakes. For the kind of money that I would pay for a b18c I could easily do a D-series build and be well on my way to suiting that up with a super turbo kit.

A/C or no A/C is not an option down here in south florida. I question how many of the B-series kits are A/C compatible...

Cain Marko

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chezicrator &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A/C or no A/C is not an option down here in south florida. I question how many of the B-series kits are A/C compatible...</TD></TR></TABLE>

love fab manifolds are ac compatible if your willing to pay the extra 100$ for it, god knows i would

EtaK

When your talking about turbo's and dif. applications, u have to also think about turbo size etc. because you can build your setup to fit the applications almost perfectly. This is another advantage to sohc-t's.

drewbie

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turtlecx92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

love fab manifolds are ac compatible if your willing to pay the extra 100$ for it, god knows i would</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would too if my ac worked

chad

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

chad:

If you do not still have your car you may borrow my silver hatchback if it's suitable for you. I'm not sure how you'll like my 425F, 550R rates with no front bar and 14mm rear swaybar and only 176whp, but if you liked the way it drove you could borrow it.

I should have been more clear when I stated the N/A 200whp car would beat the boosted 200whp car in all of those areas. I'm not a good road course driver - never claimed to be. I meant to say that drivers being equal, I'd bet the N/A car would still be quicker and would definately last longer doing so.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i will take you up on that...and i'll bring my header to throw on it for some added assurance!!!!!!!!

you gonna be at road atlanta in sept with nasa??

Racerage1

love the write up!

you came to a smart conclusion IMO...so good luck with it...


BTW: i made 185 WHP/170TQ @ 7psi on my greddy kit right out the box intercooled. i got the dyno to prove it. so dont let anyone say SOHC's are pieces of ****.

brizdo

i say just go with the z6 turbo, and go to a dohc later if you dont like the power you are getting

solsi2000

turbo sohc duh.... check out turbod16.com for more info peace

Built B16A

a SOHC with a turbo, and a few mods will blow the doors off a DOHC in most cases.. thats if you put the money for a DOHC torwards a single cam turbo setup.

myself.. i keeps it real. D15Z1.. yes, i said it. 92 VX hatch stock computer at 6PSI.. hahahahhaha

peep it.. and its rocking 226 THOUSAND MILES to date.