rocco

Hey guys i was thinkin of doin a poor man's r swap but its so damn hard to find a gsr block for a good price or even available at that.Im no too fond of ls/vtec because of all the horror stories i hear about them and the problem they have with there r/s ratio (not knocking on you lsvtec guys,for all i know theyre great motors and i know theyre fast as hell) but i was wondering if i were to get an ls block,use a gsr crank and rods with some ctr pistons,wouldnt this then totally eliminate the bad rod stoke ratio.I know i will lose a little more torque from the ls but i dont have too much money and would like a motor that will last me a bit.

rocco

ttt

Civic_EX_turbo

not sure if the Vtec parts fit in LS block, pretty sure the stroke is longer, anyways you wont lose any torque the B18B is 1 less torque than the B18C. i wouldnt try to mix and match to many parts like that, the LS/Vtec engine isnt as reliable because people rev it like a B18C which is 8200RPM when the LS block only revs to 6800RPM, if you keep the revs down< or buy a Rev limiter to 6800, it will be just as reliable

rocco

rev limiter to 6800,that would make my lsvtec slower than my b16 therefore i wasted my money/time.I wanted to put gsr internals so i could rev to 8200,i dont see y i cant.im pretty sure the block cast is the same metal.The thing i need to know is if it will fit and how much reliability i will gain over lsvtec goin this route.im pretty sure ls has a lot more midrange than the gsr which i am lookin for.i think gsr has that 1 pound more torque in high rpms like 7000 or something like that.

bigblockhonda

Ok here goes.... The b18c r/s ratio = 1.58, while the the b18a/b r/s ratio = 1.54. Not that big of a difference. The reason the b18a/b cant rev as high is because the internals are not as strong as a b18c, and the oil pump is not as good. Therefore upgrade the rods, pistons and oil pump and you can rev up to 8-9k. And yes you can put gsr internals in an ls block, but why just spend a little more get some crower rods, and some type r pistons with the ls crank and you have a good setup that can rev high and have more torque than a type r and gsr.

b00sted93Hatch

You can use gsr internals in a ls bottom end. GSR bottom ends are pretty hard to find. You would run a gsr crank and gsr rods with normal b-series pistons. The reason why a lot of ls/vtec's dont last is because people rev them high on stock internals. If you have the money run a ls bottom with some forged rods and pistons and a gsr/itr oil pump and you'd be set.

BROOD

IM

rocco

Yes but you guys are totally ignoring rod stroke ratio, ls rods will work its way through the cylinder walls as time passes and it will consume oil and cause the cylinder to become more of an oval.(Mind you this is what i read through people who has had experience with this motor combination not through my own)

BROOD

I am awhere of the differences in r/s ratio but I have yet to be worried about that on any of my LSVT builds.

The LS/B20 crank has a longer stroke than the GSR/ITR crank and the rods are of different length. The deck hights are the same between the LS/B20 and GSR/ITR blocks.


Modified by BROOD at 8:34 AM 1/8/2004

13HYBRID20

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civic_EX_turbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">not sure if the Vtec parts fit in LS block, pretty sure the stroke is longer, anyways you wont lose any torque the B18B is 1 less torque than the B18C. i wouldnt try to mix and match to many parts like that, the LS/Vtec engine isnt as reliable because people rev it like a B18C which is 8200RPM when the LS block only revs to 6800RPM, if you keep the revs down&lt; or buy a Rev limiter to 6800, it will be just as reliable </TD></TR></TABLE>
You have no clue what you are talking about. I think most horror stories come from people who don't have a LS Vtec. I have had my LS Vtec for two years I shift at 8500 all the time it makes more torque at 2200 rmps than my B16A made at 6200! about the gsr parts in the LS block I think the journals are different sizes so it wont fit not 100% sure though. Just have it put together by a good builder and get it balanced also dump the LS pistons I use American B16 pistons with a b16 head you will get 11.7 to 1.

bigblockhonda

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rocco &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes but you guys are totally ignoring rod stroke ratio, ls rods will work its way through the cylinder walls as time passes and it will consume oil and cause the cylinder to become more of an oval.(Mind you this is what i read through people who has had experience with this motor combination not through my own)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Read my post on here. The r/s ratio of the ls is 1.54 as opposed to the gsr which is 1.58. To me and I am pretty sure everyone else a .4 difference is not that great. The extra stress from .4 difference will not be enough to effect reliablity greatly. I think that even a gsr motor when reved high, over a period of time will also work its way through the cylinder walls too. If you are worried that much about the cylinder walls then just get it sleeved. I think the ls/vtec is getting a bad rep lately due to peolpe not researching the subject enough.

rocco

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ricer in denial &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Read my post on here. The r/s ratio of the ls is 1.54 as opposed to the gsr which is 1.58. To me and I am pretty sure everyone else a .4 difference is not that great. The extra stress from .4 difference will not be enough to effect reliablity greatly. I think that even a gsr motor when reved high, over a period of time will also work its way through the cylinder walls too. If you are worried that much about the cylinder walls then just get it sleeved. I think the ls/vtec is getting a bad rep lately due to peolpe not researching the subject enough.</TD></TR></TABLE> I'm pretty sure people blowing there engines or burn oil within 10000 kms of there swap might play a small role in there bad rep too.

bigblockhonda

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rocco &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I'm pretty sure people blowing there engines or burn oil within 10000 kms of there swap might play a small role in there bad rep too. </TD></TR></TABLE>

All of these problems come from a poor build just like any other motor. An ls/vtec is not an engine you want built by bubba joe at the local machine shop, which is what most people do, that and because they want to save money they skimp on important parts.

BROOD

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ricer in denial &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
All of these problems come from a poor build just like any other motor. An ls/vtec is not an engine you want built by bubba joe at the local machine shop, which is what most people do, that and because they want to save money they skimp on important parts.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I also agree that "most" of the ill opinions sprout from this. Alot of inexperienced engine builders decide to start with an engine combination like an LSVT. Most of them would not know the insides of a 5hp Briggs engine if it was layed out before them. I get asked LSVT questions all the time....I can also tell within the first few questions they ask - if their engine will ever run correctly.
I can damage any of the other Honda engines just as easily with the same ignorance.
The internet is a two edged sword...it spreads information but what quality information and to what type of perople is the real question

I'll end on this: if you are interested in building an LSVT for a challenge instead of trying to save a buck...go for it. Research until your eyes and fingers bleed then build the thing. You will learn alot when your done.
If you're just looking to bitch about something you have no experience about or have not spent more than 5 minutes researching.....then just drop it and go do something else productive.

bigblockhonda

Brood, I couldnt of have said it myself