B20 Weak??
01-15-2008, 06:13 AM
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B20 Weak??
I've been kind of intrigued by the B20 because it sounds like a very cheap motor with decent power and all of the aftermarket support of a B-series. The only knock I've read on it is that it's "weak", or the "sleeves are bad". So I guess my question is this:
Where did all of this "the B20 is weak" talk stem from? Is there any merit to it, and if so, are there any people on here who can talk from first-hand experience with it? Or did this all stem from some idiot who saw a low-compression motor and turboed it at 15 psi and blew it up? It'd be nice to try and clear this up.
Where did all of this "the B20 is weak" talk stem from? Is there any merit to it, and if so, are there any people on here who can talk from first-hand experience with it? Or did this all stem from some idiot who saw a low-compression motor and turboed it at 15 psi and blew it up? It'd be nice to try and clear this up.
01-15-2008, 06:15 AM
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Re: B20 Weak?? (andy_sayers)
The cylinder walls are thin for a b-series and the rods are like toothpicks.
The motor hates to rev, it's rod/stroke ratio is made for low down power. High revs will destroy this motor without any reinforcement.
You want a cheap n/a build?
Find a used h23 block, add an f20c bottom end and an h22vtec head, and you can make 260whp n/a with some cams and tuning.
Modified by ek forever guy at 2:05 PM 1/15/2008
The motor hates to rev, it's rod/stroke ratio is made for low down power. High revs will destroy this motor without any reinforcement.
You want a cheap n/a build?
Find a used h23 block, add an f20c bottom end and an h22vtec head, and you can make 260whp n/a with some cams and tuning.
Modified by ek forever guy at 2:05 PM 1/15/2008
01-15-2008, 06:37 AM
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Re: B20 Weak?? (ek forever guy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek forever guy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The motor hates to rev, it's rod/stroke ratio is made for low down power. High revs will destroy this motor without any reinforcement.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
But why does it need to rev high? The smaller displacement B-series' need to rev up high because they don't make any power down low, but if you can make 147hp and 133tq with a 6200 RPM redline, then why do you need to rev it to 9000?
Now as far as thin cylinder walls, I just looked up the specs and it does make some sense. B16's and B18's have a bore of 81 mm, while the B20 is a bore of 84 mm, so it looks as though they just bored out the same block another 3 mm. But is there anyone on here that has or has owned a B20 that can attest to these cylinder walls being too thin to hold up?
I'm just trying to get a better understanding of why this engine is seen as weak.
The motor hates to rev, it's rod/stroke ratio is made for low down power. High revs will destroy this motor without any reinforcement.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
But why does it need to rev high? The smaller displacement B-series' need to rev up high because they don't make any power down low, but if you can make 147hp and 133tq with a 6200 RPM redline, then why do you need to rev it to 9000?
Now as far as thin cylinder walls, I just looked up the specs and it does make some sense. B16's and B18's have a bore of 81 mm, while the B20 is a bore of 84 mm, so it looks as though they just bored out the same block another 3 mm. But is there anyone on here that has or has owned a B20 that can attest to these cylinder walls being too thin to hold up?
I'm just trying to get a better understanding of why this engine is seen as weak.
01-15-2008, 06:59 AM
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Re: B20 Weak?? (andy_sayers)
For NA the motor as is, is fine. Boost is another story.
You are correct they do bore a LS motor (B18B) over 3mm to make the 84mm. It is the exact same plateform. But if you ever take a look at the B series blocks, if you cant really go 87mm, 86mm is the max. So you have about 2mm of less wall thickness then a LS (which is 81mm.). Another way to look at it is that the B20 wall thickness is about 3-4mm thick and the B18/B16 are about 6-7mm thick. Thats why people say they are weak. Also i believe they are steel over iron that you get with resleeves. Does that make sense?
*All measurements are based off the bore size and might not be accurate, they are used for demenstration.*
You are correct they do bore a LS motor (B18B) over 3mm to make the 84mm. It is the exact same plateform. But if you ever take a look at the B series blocks, if you cant really go 87mm, 86mm is the max. So you have about 2mm of less wall thickness then a LS (which is 81mm.). Another way to look at it is that the B20 wall thickness is about 3-4mm thick and the B18/B16 are about 6-7mm thick. Thats why people say they are weak. Also i believe they are steel over iron that you get with resleeves. Does that make sense?
*All measurements are based off the bore size and might not be accurate, they are used for demenstration.*
01-15-2008, 11:21 AM
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Re: B20 Weak?? (Luserkid)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Luserkid »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For NA the motor as is, is fine. Boost is another story.
You are correct they do bore a LS motor (B18B) over 3mm to make the 84mm. It is the exact same plateform. But if you ever take a look at the B series blocks, if you cant really go 87mm, 86mm is the max. So you have about 2mm of less wall thickness then a LS (which is 81mm.). Another way to look at it is that the B20 wall thickness is about 3-4mm thick and the B18/B16 are about 6-7mm thick. Thats why people say they are weak. Also i believe they are steel over iron that you get with resleeves. Does that make sense?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, this explaination makes sense to me. But it still leads me to believe all of this talk about a B20 being weak is nonsense. If 86 mm is the max to bore the B-series block out to, and people have done it, then there should be no problem with the 84 mm bore of the B20.
Like you said, if you're boosting a B20 you'd have to build the engine up, but as far as NA and I'm sure even mild turbo set-ups the B20 should be just fine. My only argument is why pay big money for a 200 hp B18C5 or K20 when you could spend a few hundred on a B20 and add a few simple parts?
You are correct they do bore a LS motor (B18B) over 3mm to make the 84mm. It is the exact same plateform. But if you ever take a look at the B series blocks, if you cant really go 87mm, 86mm is the max. So you have about 2mm of less wall thickness then a LS (which is 81mm.). Another way to look at it is that the B20 wall thickness is about 3-4mm thick and the B18/B16 are about 6-7mm thick. Thats why people say they are weak. Also i believe they are steel over iron that you get with resleeves. Does that make sense?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, this explaination makes sense to me. But it still leads me to believe all of this talk about a B20 being weak is nonsense. If 86 mm is the max to bore the B-series block out to, and people have done it, then there should be no problem with the 84 mm bore of the B20.
Like you said, if you're boosting a B20 you'd have to build the engine up, but as far as NA and I'm sure even mild turbo set-ups the B20 should be just fine. My only argument is why pay big money for a 200 hp B18C5 or K20 when you could spend a few hundred on a B20 and add a few simple parts?
01-15-2008, 11:37 AM
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Re: B20 Weak?? (andy_sayers)
Cylinder walls have problems with high revs and high compression. The combination of the two creates poor resonance and leads to cracking of the cylinder wall. Same deal with boost. That "rods are toothpicks" is just stupid. The OEM rodbolts are 8mm vs. the 9mm VTEC rodbolts, but only matter if you're revving the motor about 7000rpm or so. Even then, the solution is ARP rodbolts, not new rods. If you want to start messing around with 9000rpm stuff or whatever, maybe you'll be in trouble. But that requires a lot of other stuff as well, and isn't at all what you're talking about.
The guys blowing up B20s all the time are pushing them to those limits, or building them improperly (too high of a CR, revving too high, etc.). It took people awhile to figure all this stuff out too.
It's a great motor if you keep the revs reasonable and the boost nonexistant or very mild. I've been using one for the past two years or so without any issue in my track car. That's revving to 7500 (ARP rodbolts, everything else bone-stock in the bottom end) for 30 minutes at a time.
A K20 or 200whp B18C5 will be faster though. My car is about as fast as a similarly prepped car with a 180whp B18C1, for reference. He definitely has a LOT more power up top than me, and pulls just a little bit on a straight. It all comes down to how much you want to spend I guess, and what you're looking for. If you're looking for 145/130 to the wheels, you won't have any problem with reliability.
The guys blowing up B20s all the time are pushing them to those limits, or building them improperly (too high of a CR, revving too high, etc.). It took people awhile to figure all this stuff out too.
It's a great motor if you keep the revs reasonable and the boost nonexistant or very mild. I've been using one for the past two years or so without any issue in my track car. That's revving to 7500 (ARP rodbolts, everything else bone-stock in the bottom end) for 30 minutes at a time.
A K20 or 200whp B18C5 will be faster though. My car is about as fast as a similarly prepped car with a 180whp B18C1, for reference. He definitely has a LOT more power up top than me, and pulls just a little bit on a straight. It all comes down to how much you want to spend I guess, and what you're looking for. If you're looking for 145/130 to the wheels, you won't have any problem with reliability.
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01-15-2008, 11:37 AM
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Re: B20 Weak?? (EhDriver)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EhDriver »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">they create alot of heat... maybe thats why many people say thats they are weak.</TD></TR></TABLE>
They don't create any more heat than an LS motor. It's not why people think they're weak.
They don't create any more heat than an LS motor. It's not why people think they're weak.
01-15-2008, 11:40 AM
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Re: B20 Weak?? (andy_sayers)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by andy_sayers »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If 86 mm is the max to bore the B-series block out to, and people have done it, then there should be no problem with the 84 mm bore of the B20.</TD></TR></TABLE>
For the record, I don't know of many (if any) people running 86mm on stock sleeves. Also for the record, going even to 85mm on stock sleeves for a B20 is asking for trouble, even with everything else done right. If you want to go to bore sizes of that or larger, you need to start thinking about aftermarket sleeves.
If 86 mm is the max to bore the B-series block out to, and people have done it, then there should be no problem with the 84 mm bore of the B20.</TD></TR></TABLE>
For the record, I don't know of many (if any) people running 86mm on stock sleeves. Also for the record, going even to 85mm on stock sleeves for a B20 is asking for trouble, even with everything else done right. If you want to go to bore sizes of that or larger, you need to start thinking about aftermarket sleeves.
01-15-2008, 11:45 AM
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Re: B20 Weak?? (Stinkycheezmonky)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Cylinder walls have problems with high revs and high compression. The combination of the two creates poor resonance and leads to cracking of the cylinder wall. Same deal with boost. That "rods are toothpicks" is just stupid. The OEM rodbolts are 8mm vs. the 9mm VTEC rodbolts, but only matter if you're revving the motor about 7000rpm or so. Even then, the solution is ARP rodbolts, not new rods. If you want to start messing around with 9000rpm stuff or whatever, maybe you'll be in trouble. But that requires a lot of other stuff as well, and isn't at all what you're talking about.
The guys blowing up B20s all the time are pushing them to those limits, or building them improperly (too high of a CR, revving too high, etc.). It took people awhile to figure all this stuff out too.
It's a great motor if you keep the revs reasonable and the boost nonexistant or very mild. I've been using one for the past two years or so without any issue in my track car. That's revving to 7500 (ARP rodbolts, everything else bone-stock in the bottom end) for 30 minutes at a time.
A K20 or 200whp B18C5 will be faster though. My car is about as fast as a similarly prepped car with a 180whp B18C1, for reference. He definitely has a LOT more power up top than me, and pulls just a little bit on a straight. It all comes down to how much you want to spend I guess, and what you're looking for. If you're looking for 145/130 to the wheels, you won't have any problem with reliability.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is some very good information. What would you need to build a 200 whp B20? And you're talking about the combination of revs and compression, but what if you increased the compression and kept the revs fairly low? Is it possible to make 200 whp on stock internals without comprimising too much reliability?
The guys blowing up B20s all the time are pushing them to those limits, or building them improperly (too high of a CR, revving too high, etc.). It took people awhile to figure all this stuff out too.
It's a great motor if you keep the revs reasonable and the boost nonexistant or very mild. I've been using one for the past two years or so without any issue in my track car. That's revving to 7500 (ARP rodbolts, everything else bone-stock in the bottom end) for 30 minutes at a time.
A K20 or 200whp B18C5 will be faster though. My car is about as fast as a similarly prepped car with a 180whp B18C1, for reference. He definitely has a LOT more power up top than me, and pulls just a little bit on a straight. It all comes down to how much you want to spend I guess, and what you're looking for. If you're looking for 145/130 to the wheels, you won't have any problem with reliability.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is some very good information. What would you need to build a 200 whp B20? And you're talking about the combination of revs and compression, but what if you increased the compression and kept the revs fairly low? Is it possible to make 200 whp on stock internals without comprimising too much reliability?
01-15-2008, 12:00 PM
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Re: B20 Weak?? (andy_sayers)
The amount of misinformation on this sight is scary.
Please take a minute to read this sight-
http://dwolsten.tripod.com/articles/jan96a.html
followed by looking through this thread-
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2026738
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek forever guy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The cylinder walls are thin for a b-series and the rods are like toothpicks.
The motor hates to rev, it's rod/stroke ratio is made for low down power. High revs will destroy this motor without any reinforcement.
You want a cheap n/a build?
Find a used h23 block, add an f20c bottom end and an h22vtec head, and you can make 260wtq n/a with some cams and tuning. </TD></TR></TABLE>
How are the rods like toothpics?
And please enlighten me with how to make 260wtq on a stock component sans camshafts honda build-
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EhDriver »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">they create alot of heat... maybe thats why many people say thats they are weak.</TD></TR></TABLE>
please dont post misinformation
The B20 is fine if its built right-
OP what are you looking to do? Boost it? make a all motor engine?
The motor will handle 300 horsepower easily, especially if tuned right.
If your looking to do a all motor build with the motor, i suggest reading (i think its D rob)'s motor build- he went as far as boring it out to 84.5mm stock sleeves and its been running great-
Please take a minute to read this sight-
http://dwolsten.tripod.com/articles/jan96a.html
followed by looking through this thread-
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2026738
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek forever guy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The cylinder walls are thin for a b-series and the rods are like toothpicks.
The motor hates to rev, it's rod/stroke ratio is made for low down power. High revs will destroy this motor without any reinforcement.
You want a cheap n/a build?
Find a used h23 block, add an f20c bottom end and an h22vtec head, and you can make 260wtq n/a with some cams and tuning. </TD></TR></TABLE>
How are the rods like toothpics?
And please enlighten me with how to make 260wtq on a stock component sans camshafts honda build-
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EhDriver »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">they create alot of heat... maybe thats why many people say thats they are weak.</TD></TR></TABLE>
please dont post misinformation
The B20 is fine if its built right-
OP what are you looking to do? Boost it? make a all motor engine?
The motor will handle 300 horsepower easily, especially if tuned right.
If your looking to do a all motor build with the motor, i suggest reading (i think its D rob)'s motor build- he went as far as boring it out to 84.5mm stock sleeves and its been running great-
01-15-2008, 12:07 PM
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Re: B20 Weak?? (Luserkid)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Luserkidh »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You are correct they do bore a LS motor (B18B) over 3mm to make the 84mm. It is the exact same plateform.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Its acutually different than the LS, in that the cylinder walls are made of different materials and methods.
B20 cylinders are "siamesed" together, rather than individual sleeves.
The casting, crank, and rods are all identical though.
OP, please search, this has been covered many times...
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=304251
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=398204
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1025724
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=631790
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=548569
etc etc etc
Its acutually different than the LS, in that the cylinder walls are made of different materials and methods.
B20 cylinders are "siamesed" together, rather than individual sleeves.
The casting, crank, and rods are all identical though.
OP, please search, this has been covered many times...
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=304251
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=398204
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1025724
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=631790
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=548569
etc etc etc
01-15-2008, 12:07 PM
#13
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Re: B20 Weak?? (andy_sayers)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by andy_sayers »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yes, this explaination makes sense to me. But it still leads me to believe all of this talk about a B20 being weak is nonsense. If 86 mm is the max to bore the B-series block out to, and people have done it, then there should be no problem with the 84 mm bore of the B20.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
In order for something to be weak they have to be compared to something. What are you comparing the B20 to when you hear it being called weak? A B16? B18? D16? K series? Theres alot to put into consideration when someone is calling it weak and why they are calling it weak. Something cant just be "weak"
Yes, this explaination makes sense to me. But it still leads me to believe all of this talk about a B20 being weak is nonsense. If 86 mm is the max to bore the B-series block out to, and people have done it, then there should be no problem with the 84 mm bore of the B20.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
In order for something to be weak they have to be compared to something. What are you comparing the B20 to when you hear it being called weak? A B16? B18? D16? K series? Theres alot to put into consideration when someone is calling it weak and why they are calling it weak. Something cant just be "weak"
01-15-2008, 12:09 PM
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Re: B20 Weak?? (andy_sayers)
Increasing compression without revs will benefit you, but you might as well make other changes if you're going to that kind of trouble. 200whp will depend on what head you use. Do you want to keep it non-VTEC? If so, 200whp will be difficult to attain, and will require a good amount of work (cams, pistons, headwork, good manifolds and exhaust, great tuning, etc.). If you used a VTEC head you'd have an easier time of it, but might wind up spending more. One of the biggest advantages of that is superior cam design and operation. Even the biggest non-VTEC cams are pretty small compared to aftermarket VTEC cams. I'm leaving a whole lot out of that, but maybe it'll give you some idea.
To make that simple: 200whp on a stock block will not be reliable, if you can get there in the first place. It will require work. You also will NOT hit that at 6500rpm with any kind of reasonable setup.
What are you looking for exactly? If it's a fun, cheap setup, get a B20 with a decent header and some dyno time. If it's something FAST...well, do some more research and break out your wallet.
To make that simple: 200whp on a stock block will not be reliable, if you can get there in the first place. It will require work. You also will NOT hit that at 6500rpm with any kind of reasonable setup.
What are you looking for exactly? If it's a fun, cheap setup, get a B20 with a decent header and some dyno time. If it's something FAST...well, do some more research and break out your wallet.
01-15-2008, 12:50 PM
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Re: B20 Weak?? (Stinkycheezmonky)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Increasing compression without revs will benefit you, but you might as well make other changes if you're going to that kind of trouble. 200whp will depend on what head you use. Do you want to keep it non-VTEC? If so, 200whp will be difficult to attain, and will require a good amount of work (cams, pistons, headwork, good manifolds and exhaust, great tuning, etc.). If you used a VTEC head you'd have an easier time of it, but might wind up spending more. One of the biggest advantages of that is superior cam design and operation. Even the biggest non-VTEC cams are pretty small compared to aftermarket VTEC cams. I'm leaving a whole lot out of that, but maybe it'll give you some idea.
To make that simple: 200whp on a stock block will not be reliable, if you can get there in the first place. It will require work. You also will NOT hit that at 6500rpm with any kind of reasonable setup.
What are you looking for exactly? If it's a fun, cheap setup, get a B20 with a decent header and some dyno time. If it's something FAST...well, do some more research and break out your wallet.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Honestly at the moment I'm not looking for anything as I'm still in University and won't have any money coming in for the next year or two, but I've been doing some research for when the time finally comes. I would be looking to do an NA build, and closer to the fun side rather than fast side. Just trying to search out the best bang for the buck, and so far it has looked like the B20.
However, I can see that it wouldn't be as easy as I first thought. The cams are a problem I didn't really realize (although it makes perfect sense seeing as the VTEC cams have one set of lobes for 5500+ RPM, so they could be more radical than any non-VTEC cams by far).
What kind of modifications do you have to your's to run 145 WHP? Just the usual I/H/E type stuff?
To make that simple: 200whp on a stock block will not be reliable, if you can get there in the first place. It will require work. You also will NOT hit that at 6500rpm with any kind of reasonable setup.
What are you looking for exactly? If it's a fun, cheap setup, get a B20 with a decent header and some dyno time. If it's something FAST...well, do some more research and break out your wallet.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Honestly at the moment I'm not looking for anything as I'm still in University and won't have any money coming in for the next year or two, but I've been doing some research for when the time finally comes. I would be looking to do an NA build, and closer to the fun side rather than fast side. Just trying to search out the best bang for the buck, and so far it has looked like the B20.
However, I can see that it wouldn't be as easy as I first thought. The cams are a problem I didn't really realize (although it makes perfect sense seeing as the VTEC cams have one set of lobes for 5500+ RPM, so they could be more radical than any non-VTEC cams by far).
What kind of modifications do you have to your's to run 145 WHP? Just the usual I/H/E type stuff?
01-15-2008, 01:04 PM
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Re: B20 Weak?? (andy_sayers)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by andy_sayers »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But why does it need to rev high?
I'm just trying to get a better understanding of why this engine is seen as weak.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It doesn't need to rev high. And a lot of people have that misconception when building one of these motors for the first time. Often it is that people rev them like they're b16's, and they can't handle that as you know.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vestalfootball72 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
How are the rods like toothpics?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
By "rods" I meant the Rods going out due to the smaller size in rob bolts and the haphazardness of b20 owners to rev beyond the stock redline.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vestalfootball72 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And please enlighten me with how to make 260wtq on a stock component sans camshafts honda build-</TD></TR></TABLE>
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1937260
There's the setup I was talking about earlier. And I don't know why I wrote 260wtq, I meant to put hp. I edited the post.
THAT is the most bang for buck n/a I've ever seen. It would be tough to argue something better than that.
Don't get me wrong, b20's are great. But with the onset of the h2b lineup, there's really no comparison in MY opinion
I'm just trying to get a better understanding of why this engine is seen as weak.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It doesn't need to rev high. And a lot of people have that misconception when building one of these motors for the first time. Often it is that people rev them like they're b16's, and they can't handle that as you know.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vestalfootball72 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
How are the rods like toothpics?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
By "rods" I meant the Rods going out due to the smaller size in rob bolts and the haphazardness of b20 owners to rev beyond the stock redline.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vestalfootball72 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And please enlighten me with how to make 260wtq on a stock component sans camshafts honda build-</TD></TR></TABLE>
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1937260
There's the setup I was talking about earlier. And I don't know why I wrote 260wtq, I meant to put hp. I edited the post.
THAT is the most bang for buck n/a I've ever seen. It would be tough to argue something better than that.
Don't get me wrong, b20's are great. But with the onset of the h2b lineup, there's really no comparison in MY opinion
01-15-2008, 01:08 PM
#17
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Re: B20 Weak?? (Stinkycheezmonky)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I've been using one for the past two years or so without any issue in my track car. That's revving to 7500 (ARP rodbolts, everything else bone-stock in the bottom end) for 30 minutes at a time.
It all comes down to how much you want to spend I guess, and what you're looking for. If you're looking for 145/130 to the wheels, you won't have any problem with reliability.</TD></TR></TABLE>
im right there with you. ive had this motor for 4 years with bolt on's.. and my revs are up to 7200 with no issues. another thing to add is that b20z's dyno well.. so its easy to achieve 145 at the wheels. for the money which im sure will be argued but its the best motor to get.
It all comes down to how much you want to spend I guess, and what you're looking for. If you're looking for 145/130 to the wheels, you won't have any problem with reliability.</TD></TR></TABLE>
im right there with you. ive had this motor for 4 years with bolt on's.. and my revs are up to 7200 with no issues. another thing to add is that b20z's dyno well.. so its easy to achieve 145 at the wheels. for the money which im sure will be argued but its the best motor to get.
01-15-2008, 01:20 PM
#18
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Re: B20 Weak?? (ek forever guy)
While I agree that that is a good deal for the power you're getting, its also not something just everyone can do (machine work, engine assembly, etc.). Adding the H2B thing adds more to that price. Compared to a B20 with a GSR tranny or something, it's WAY more expensive, although you are getting a very potent motor. Sourcing that variety of parts would also be difficult.
On a sidenote, do you know the weight of an H22?
On a sidenote, do you know the weight of an H22?
01-15-2008, 01:22 PM
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Re: B20 Weak?? (Stinkycheezmonky)
I'm putting down 163/129 with a B20B (lower compression than B20Z), P8R head, Crower 403 cams, Blox IM, whale ***** intake, Toda header, Fujitsubo header, and great tuning. Hitting 145 should be easy with I/H/E.
01-15-2008, 01:30 PM
#21
Man U FTW
I'm not even going to pretend that i read this whole thread, but i want to offer this:
If you're going with an NA build, then the B20 might be fine for your needs, but if you're going to boost it, then i would find either an LS or GSR to use instead.
If you're going with an NA build, then the B20 might be fine for your needs, but if you're going to boost it, then i would find either an LS or GSR to use instead.
01-15-2008, 01:37 PM
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Re: B20 Weak?? (Stinkycheezmonky)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm putting down 163/129 with a B20B (lower compression than B20Z), P8R head, Crower 403 cams, Blox IM, whale ***** intake, Toda header, Fujitsubo header, and great tuning..</TD></TR></TABLE>
ill have the same except the head is ported and crower 404s and a 5 zigen header
ill have the same except the head is ported and crower 404s and a 5 zigen header
01-15-2008, 01:46 PM
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Re: B20 Weak?? (spock_rocker)
I guess selling the whip didn't go so well? 
My head is mildly ported, nothing too special though. I am interested in seeing your dyno with the 404s though.
My head is mildly ported, nothing too special though. I am interested in seeing your dyno with the 404s though.
01-15-2008, 01:50 PM
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Re: B20 Weak?? (ek forever guy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek forever guy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
THAT is the most bang for buck n/a I've ever seen. It would be tough to argue something better than that.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
ic ic- i was gona say no way your going to make 260 torque
anyways you need to look into 350 chevy builds if you wana see bang for the buck
haha
THAT is the most bang for buck n/a I've ever seen. It would be tough to argue something better than that.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
ic ic- i was gona say no way your going to make 260 torque
anyways you need to look into 350 chevy builds if you wana see bang for the buck
haha
01-15-2008, 01:59 PM
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Re: B20 Weak?? (spock_rocker)
I would recommend the b20. Most people overlook this engine but it has potential. I make 166whp and 133 wtq on a b20b with crower 403's i/im/h/e and a good tune. Also i rev the motor to 7300-7500 daily.