The Official EF Discussion Thread
Re: (Boosted Chemist)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boosted Chemist »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
a mugen spoon ebay chip lol</TD></TR></TABLE>
you mean those chips that are GUARANTEED to add 15whp
a mugen spoon ebay chip lol</TD></TR></TABLE>
you mean those chips that are GUARANTEED to add 15whp
Re: (kylefakesi-r)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kylefakesi-r »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
you mean a generic rich and retarded tune is not a good route for reliable power?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Rich for what? a d16y8? Who the expletive knows, lean is mean. I saw one kid once run an afc hack with a spoon chip on a itr
poor motor
you mean a generic rich and retarded tune is not a good route for reliable power?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Rich for what? a d16y8? Who the expletive knows, lean is mean. I saw one kid once run an afc hack with a spoon chip on a itr
poor motor
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Re: (ExospeedAMcrx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ExospeedAMcrx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
RS ratio is overrated man. Life is too short to worry about those things.
Our b-series Ls/V turbo setups are taken up to 10,500rpm. hehe. and if youre familiar with drag racing techniques, we're on the rev limiter on 1st gear for about a couple seconds.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is true. Kevin Helms runs B20VTEC, and he road races, and uses Toda Spec C cams, so you know he is revving the hell out of it. Makes hella good power to boot, with all Honda bottom end parts. All the LSVTEC hating is the results of kids putting hodge podge setups together, and then bitching on the internet when it blows up because they threw a b16 head on a 150,000 mile LS block they got at the junkyard. Not to mention they never even thought about replacing the rod, or main bearings.
RS ratio is overrated man. Life is too short to worry about those things.
Our b-series Ls/V turbo setups are taken up to 10,500rpm. hehe. and if youre familiar with drag racing techniques, we're on the rev limiter on 1st gear for about a couple seconds.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is true. Kevin Helms runs B20VTEC, and he road races, and uses Toda Spec C cams, so you know he is revving the hell out of it. Makes hella good power to boot, with all Honda bottom end parts. All the LSVTEC hating is the results of kids putting hodge podge setups together, and then bitching on the internet when it blows up because they threw a b16 head on a 150,000 mile LS block they got at the junkyard. Not to mention they never even thought about replacing the rod, or main bearings.
![[Ennis_D]'s Avatar](https://honda-tech.com/forums/customavatars/avatar999395163_2.gif){kind=avatar}
Re: (CRXBart)
Posted this in the Integra forums to educate some n00bs on why LS-V builds fail:
Originally Posted by [Ennis_D
]You are going to hear different opinions on this set-up. Some will say 1) Go with it and others will say 2) LS-V motors are unreliable; Honda would have built and put this motor in a car if it were meant to be.
Me, personally, I say go with it and that they can be reliable. From what I have seen, most LS-V motors fail because the lack of money and prep put into them. Think about it...The LS motor has a 7-7200k redline; b16 has a 8.000 redline. People blow LS-V motors because they think the stock bottom end (ls block) can handle 8-9,000+ rpms when in reality, it [ls motor] was built for 7-7,200...You do the math and figure out why they blow.
First main reason I have seen failure in LS-V set-ups is the builder skipping having the rotating assembly balanced. Yes, the assembly comes balanced from Honda but having it checked and rebalanced is crucial. I would say $100-200 to have this done at a machine shop and it will pay for itself! Also while at the machine shop, have the rod journals micropolished.
Second main reason they [LS-V] motors blow is because the builder does not replace stock rod bolts w/ ARP ones. Once again, this all leads back to the stock LS motor being built by Honda only to turn 7-7,200 rpms. With stock rod bolts, it leads to bolt stretch and then to a slung rod bearing...From there, it's all DOWNHILL!
The third reason is the use of LS rods. I am not saying they cannot be used, becuase having them shot-peened (Wikipedia - Shot Peening), will increase your chance of them not breaking. This also leads back to the fact that the LS motor was constructed to turn 7-7,200 rpms.
The fourth reason for failure of LS-V motors that I have seen is from not using a VTEC 22tooth water pump. The use of a 19T (LS water pump) at higher (than stock) revs, will lead to cavitation (a void or air bubbles caused from the 19T water pump turning fast than it can handle; Wikipedia - Cavitation) causing the build to fail. The simple replacement of a 22T VTEC water pump will ensure you have a new pump and once again, increase your chances of your build "holding together".
The last reason is the use of OEM head studs. I have seen plenty of LS-V set-ups, where people have ran OEM head studs, experience stud stretch which leads to a blown head gasket and failure of build. The use of ARP GSR head studs is ideal for this motor set-up.
If you are going to build a LS-V motor, take the time to do it right and make as reliable as possible. You dont take your time and replace little things to increase chances of keeping it all together, you will be pulling the motor and rebuilding or replacing before too long. When building, replace OEM LS rod bolts w/ ARP bolts, OEM LS bearings (main, rod, and thrust) with ACL bearings, have the OEM LS rods shot-peened or replace w/ aftermarket (ie Eagle etc), have the rotating assembly checked and balanced along w/ rod journals micropolished, and replace OEM LS head studs w/ ARP GSR head studs . Also, to ensure you are staying w/in the rpm reality of the LS bottom end (if sticking w/ OEM LS rods), make sure you make your power before or between 7-8k rpms. You do not have to rev to 20,000 rpms to make usable and sufficient power.
All of this is just my .02. I am in the process of building a turbo LS-V motor and looking to put down 350-400 to the wheels. I have constructed my build around watching people build these motors, (they are built, they fail, making notes of what parts they used (or did not use) which lead to the failure) and research here on HT. It all comes down to building it right the first time and covering your *** in the right spots the first time around to ensure reliability. Search here on the boards, make notes of set-up that were and are successful w/ what parts they used, and spend the money to do it right. It's like they say:
There are 3 options: Cheap, Fast, Reliable. Never a combo of all three-
1) Can be cheap and fast, but not reliable.
2) Can be cheap and reliable, but not fast.
3) Can be reliable and fast, but not cheap
Hope all of this helps
/rant
Me, personally, I say go with it and that they can be reliable. From what I have seen, most LS-V motors fail because the lack of money and prep put into them. Think about it...The LS motor has a 7-7200k redline; b16 has a 8.000 redline. People blow LS-V motors because they think the stock bottom end (ls block) can handle 8-9,000+ rpms when in reality, it [ls motor] was built for 7-7,200...You do the math and figure out why they blow.
First main reason I have seen failure in LS-V set-ups is the builder skipping having the rotating assembly balanced. Yes, the assembly comes balanced from Honda but having it checked and rebalanced is crucial. I would say $100-200 to have this done at a machine shop and it will pay for itself! Also while at the machine shop, have the rod journals micropolished.
Second main reason they [LS-V] motors blow is because the builder does not replace stock rod bolts w/ ARP ones. Once again, this all leads back to the stock LS motor being built by Honda only to turn 7-7,200 rpms. With stock rod bolts, it leads to bolt stretch and then to a slung rod bearing...From there, it's all DOWNHILL!
The third reason is the use of LS rods. I am not saying they cannot be used, becuase having them shot-peened (Wikipedia - Shot Peening), will increase your chance of them not breaking. This also leads back to the fact that the LS motor was constructed to turn 7-7,200 rpms.
The fourth reason for failure of LS-V motors that I have seen is from not using a VTEC 22tooth water pump. The use of a 19T (LS water pump) at higher (than stock) revs, will lead to cavitation (a void or air bubbles caused from the 19T water pump turning fast than it can handle; Wikipedia - Cavitation) causing the build to fail. The simple replacement of a 22T VTEC water pump will ensure you have a new pump and once again, increase your chances of your build "holding together".
The last reason is the use of OEM head studs. I have seen plenty of LS-V set-ups, where people have ran OEM head studs, experience stud stretch which leads to a blown head gasket and failure of build. The use of ARP GSR head studs is ideal for this motor set-up.
If you are going to build a LS-V motor, take the time to do it right and make as reliable as possible. You dont take your time and replace little things to increase chances of keeping it all together, you will be pulling the motor and rebuilding or replacing before too long. When building, replace OEM LS rod bolts w/ ARP bolts, OEM LS bearings (main, rod, and thrust) with ACL bearings, have the OEM LS rods shot-peened or replace w/ aftermarket (ie Eagle etc), have the rotating assembly checked and balanced along w/ rod journals micropolished, and replace OEM LS head studs w/ ARP GSR head studs . Also, to ensure you are staying w/in the rpm reality of the LS bottom end (if sticking w/ OEM LS rods), make sure you make your power before or between 7-8k rpms. You do not have to rev to 20,000 rpms to make usable and sufficient power.
All of this is just my .02. I am in the process of building a turbo LS-V motor and looking to put down 350-400 to the wheels. I have constructed my build around watching people build these motors, (they are built, they fail, making notes of what parts they used (or did not use) which lead to the failure) and research here on HT. It all comes down to building it right the first time and covering your *** in the right spots the first time around to ensure reliability. Search here on the boards, make notes of set-up that were and are successful w/ what parts they used, and spend the money to do it right. It's like they say:
There are 3 options: Cheap, Fast, Reliable. Never a combo of all three-
1) Can be cheap and fast, but not reliable.
2) Can be cheap and reliable, but not fast.
3) Can be reliable and fast, but not cheap
Hope all of this helps
/rant
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Re: ([Ennis_D])
^ 
. My main question though, is still, why do people believe RS-ratio's are overrated? There has to be a reason why Honda de-stroked the B18c for a better RS ratio; ultimately sacrificing displacement.
Btw,
For sale, check the EF classifieds
.
. My main question though, is still, why do people believe RS-ratio's are overrated? There has to be a reason why Honda de-stroked the B18c for a better RS ratio; ultimately sacrificing displacement. Btw,
For sale, check the EF classifieds
.
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Re: ([Ennis_D])
hehe good post.
How many times have I explained/typed those points in forums and to people calling us the last 8 yrs. As much as we put it up here, its just one of those things that noobs have to experience... part of paying your dues.. if you dont do your research.
How many times have I explained/typed those points in forums and to people calling us the last 8 yrs. As much as we put it up here, its just one of those things that noobs have to experience... part of paying your dues.. if you dont do your research.
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Re: (1989CivicSi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1989CivicSi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Btw,
For sale, check the EF classifieds . </TD></TR></TABLE>
can I hazz??
Btw,
For sale, check the EF classifieds
. </TD></TR></TABLE>can I hazz??
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From: gold rust on my mugen rims
I knew about them b4 anyone else did
BTW:
with said info up top about LS-V is that a garunteed sure fire way to have it be reliable w/ no issues??
Anything else to look for?
BTW:
with said info up top about LS-V is that a garunteed sure fire way to have it be reliable w/ no issues??
Anything else to look for?
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Posts: 5,967
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From: San Diego, CA
Re: (vega_box)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vega_box »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why use a GSR or ITR with a b16 head??</TD></TR></TABLE>
direct bolt on, rods are ready, headbolts are ready, no need to run an external oil line, etc etc. crank is balanced for the higher revs.
GSR crank is lighter than an ITR.
ITR crank is balanced to higher RPMs though.
B16 head is a pr3 casting. same as an ITR. <-- same head
but the ITR head is ported from the factory, has better cams, valves, springs, and retainers.
it's easy to convert a B16 head to an ITR head.
direct bolt on, rods are ready, headbolts are ready, no need to run an external oil line, etc etc. crank is balanced for the higher revs.
GSR crank is lighter than an ITR.
ITR crank is balanced to higher RPMs though.
B16 head is a pr3 casting. same as an ITR. <-- same head
but the ITR head is ported from the factory, has better cams, valves, springs, and retainers.
it's easy to convert a B16 head to an ITR head.
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Re: (vega_box)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vega_box »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">as far as bottom goes but what are the pluses in using a 1.6 vtec head over the already 1.8 vtec head??</TD></TR></TABLE> itr>b16>gsr, as far as flow, and as Joe stated the itr has a better valvetrain.
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Re: (Old_Honda)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Old_Honda »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> itr>b16>gsr, as far as flow, and as Joe stated the itr has a better valvetrain.</TD></TR></TABLE>
True story. The ITR head is really just a hand ported/polished B16 head with a better valvetrain. Just take your b16 head and have a *good* port/polish done to it with a better-than-stock valvetrain and you're good to go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnniXCPz_FI
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HatchMo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">are those splitters for an EF? are they custom?</TD></TR></TABLE>
They're just some generic full CF splitters that I just want to get rid of for a bill. Helluva lot better than that $400 overpriced ARC fiberglass crap.
True story. The ITR head is really just a hand ported/polished B16 head with a better valvetrain. Just take your b16 head and have a *good* port/polish done to it with a better-than-stock valvetrain and you're good to go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnniXCPz_FI
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HatchMo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">are those splitters for an EF? are they custom?</TD></TR></TABLE>
They're just some generic full CF splitters that I just want to get rid of for a bill. Helluva lot better than that $400 overpriced ARC fiberglass crap.
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Re: (vega_box)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vega_box »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lol
if I find a ITR for cheap or anywhere near the price of a b16 I will not be swapping the heads.
how often to b18c5 bottom ends pop up and why would one??</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'd say...50% legit sale person just wants to get rid of it/upgrade, and 50% stolen with the vin shaved off.
if I find a ITR for cheap or anywhere near the price of a b16 I will not be swapping the heads.
how often to b18c5 bottom ends pop up and why would one??</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'd say...50% legit sale person just wants to get rid of it/upgrade, and 50% stolen with the vin shaved off
.
Re: (Old_Honda)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Old_Honda »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> itr>b16>gsr, as far as flow, and as Joe stated the itr has a better valvetrain.</TD></TR></TABLE>
On the flip side, some people prefer the GSR head for the smaller combustion chambers. (something like 0.2-0.3 higher compression with a GSR head as compared to a PR3 head).
It also seems easier to find things for the PR3 casting though, as far as intake manifolds or ITB setups go.
On the flip side, some people prefer the GSR head for the smaller combustion chambers. (something like 0.2-0.3 higher compression with a GSR head as compared to a PR3 head).
It also seems easier to find things for the PR3 casting though, as far as intake manifolds or ITB setups go.
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Re: (1989CivicSi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1989CivicSi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'd say...50% legit sale person just wants to get rid of it/upgrade, and 50% stolen with the vin shaved off. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'd say...50% legit sale person just wants to get rid of it/upgrade, and 50% stolen with the vin shaved off
. </TD></TR></TABLE>
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Re: (Mr_CRX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr_CRX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On the flip side, some people prefer the GSR head for the smaller combustion chambers.</TD></TR></TABLE>
and the port entry angle.
and the port entry angle.
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Re: (Disco Monkey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Disco Monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
and the port entry angle.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i like the GSR head. unless well, i had the money to get a full PR3 head done by endyn. their clover leaf design looks promising.
but, a pr3 head, in my opinion would be the easiest to get and get parts for, because i think more are available.
compatible intake manifolds are more plentiful too. at least thats what ive seen.
GSR block with B16 head could really make some power if you added the correct pistons and valvetrain.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr_CRX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
On the flip side, some people prefer the GSR head for the smaller combustion chambers. (something like 0.2-0.3 higher compression with a GSR head as compared to a PR3 head).
It also seems easier to find things for the PR3 casting though, as far as intake manifolds or ITB setups go.</TD></TR></TABLE>
hehehehe.... great minds think alike.
and the port entry angle.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i like the GSR head. unless well, i had the money to get a full PR3 head done by endyn. their clover leaf design looks promising.
but, a pr3 head, in my opinion would be the easiest to get and get parts for, because i think more are available.
compatible intake manifolds are more plentiful too. at least thats what ive seen.
GSR block with B16 head could really make some power if you added the correct pistons and valvetrain.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr_CRX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
On the flip side, some people prefer the GSR head for the smaller combustion chambers. (something like 0.2-0.3 higher compression with a GSR head as compared to a PR3 head).
It also seems easier to find things for the PR3 casting though, as far as intake manifolds or ITB setups go.</TD></TR></TABLE>
hehehehe.... great minds think alike.