methonal injected down the charge is for cooling purposes and slight octane increase's and will have a nock limit will be reached sooner than a direct port methonal set-up...yes for a basic 300-400hp set-up a single will proballly be ok...
one single nozzle will still have minor puddelling and un-even flow...if your looking for higher power this is where direct port will be closer to dead on and be better...

alot of people will run dual fuel rails a set of four injectors on ethonal and the other four on methonal...this would be ideal compared to just methonal nozzels for direct port but i have seen both and is interesting stuff

 

Some of the jrsc guys swear by meth injection for non-intercooled setups.

Can you tell me about how to set up a safeguard so that my maps will revert when the meth runs out?

 

im pretty sure that if all turbo Honda owners installed legit meth kits properly, we would have almost all of them with OG engines still running strong. Lol, running with 91octane alone is more dangerous, and people forget that walboros fail also, injectors get clogged, and wiring can cause a huge lean condition. With technology now a days (2013 not the goddam 90s when people didn't know **** about tuning or ECUs) and with the countless failsafe methods you can make that WILL act fast, meth is a wonderful and safe idea. especially when your average HONDA owner doesn't have access to e85 physically and legally. E85 is a burn and cops will smell that **** instantly and the MPG is not worth it.

just like all parts especially on a high performance turbo car, it is very important to periodically check all the parts and make sure all fluids are there, oil is good, coolant checks out, voltage is reaching parts, injectors are clean, timing belt is good, valve lash is good, and that lines aren't leaking. the meth pump is pretty easy to test too if its good.

 

then just like you do on your race-car, you would install gauges, failsafe methods and program your ecu to read these irregularities if they occur rather than depending on the human who will probably be too busy focusing in what's in front of them when their racing

and for your second concern, obviously buy parts that have proven to work from reputable companies and do the research. the progressive controllers of now a days are pretty darn accurate.

I know a handful of Beemer guys making 600 to 800whp on meth with 91 octane here in LA county for years. their recommend to check the meth system every time you change the oil to make sure everything is safe

 

Would the meth constantly be spraying in your case? I can see me re-routing the windsheild squirter hose to a nozzle on the back of the supercharger intake runner (where my second map sensor is now). Only used in hot conditions. The most I drive my car is 10-15 miles at a time.

 

Since when is E85 illegal anywhere?...

 

This really shouldn't be a concern if your tank is a decent size and you check it every time you fill up, but there are a few options for failsafe.

You can use a basic aftermarket fluid indicator light kit (or the stock one if you're fancy enough to have one), and pass the indicator light power wire to a normally-open relay that intercepts the main relay or a 2-timer chip switch (moates.net). Or, simply wire it in to an auxiliary map switching trigger in Neptune or Hondata systems to run a pump gas/ safe mode tune.

In Neptune go to Parameters - Switch Maps - select your input and enable it. Tune the safe mode maps and copy it over to the secondaries before you tune meth; it's easier.
For Hondata go to Parameters - Secondary Tables - Select your input.
I would suggest the brake switch pin since it uses a 12v input and it's the only one I can confirm is working.

 

Interesting. I still haven't seen these puddling issues on the single nozzle 650-700whp Evolution and Subaru setups here from the last 5 years. Am I missing something here?.

 

always wondered the long term pros and cons of running meth

 

In regards to the comments about the pump slowing down/failing or having a jet clog or running out of meth. Most people that use these systems have failsafes setup in the ecu to deal with such an issue.

I'm not up on stock ecu capabilities with tuning options like neptune, s300, crome, etc. But I know AEM users like myself can have the failsafe do anything from cut boost, pull timing (or both), engage a secondary soft rev limiter to get the car to a safe rpm as quickly as possible, or more extreme things like cutting ignition completely, shutting off the fuel pump, etc

I would expect anyone running methanol injection to have some form of failsafe to protect the motor should an issue arise with the injection system. Especially since it's hard to monitor fluid levels in the tank unless you have a float linked to a gauge or a low level switch that will illuminate an led or some signal on the dash

 

Check your fluid level once a week at least. You should never run low if you do.

 

You'd be amazed how many people don't. That's why a few systems come with low level indicators

 

Those people deserve to run out. My kit came with a level sensor but I didn't install it. I've been using meth for years so checking the level before going out and beating on the car is nothing new to me.

 

Some people don't think a modified car needs extra attention, which in reality it needs close monitoring. From the tune to the fuel used, every fluid system must be checked for fluid condition and level

 

I disagree, on the grounds that it's now the 21st century. We have technology to monitor things for us, so we can spend more time enjoying our cars than worrying about them.
Knock, fluid level, fuel ratio, temperatures and pressures can all be automated and organized in failsafes and dashboards relatively easily to curb compulsive maintenance.
On the other hand, you're right in the respect that they're less reliable than stock engines.

 

Don't get me wrong, cars we build are meant to be driven but extra time and care is called for to keep our motors healthy, especially boosted ones. Fuel pump lifespan, fuel filters, oil choice and filter choice plus changing those fluids to prevent varnishing of engine components and preserving the operational health of the turbo charger

I have plenty of monitoring parameters as I do failsafes and measures to be taken should a component fail but the whole point is to never let a component reach that state.

An ecu can't monitor spark plug health, ignition system health nor fuel system health ( to a point) but nothing beats the human eyes and hands to tackle certain aspects of modified car upkeep

Hell our C6 Z06 track day car spends a lot of time on the lift getting checked over for the next event..

 

touche.

 

I thought you'd like that

I'm looking for a high pressure (500+ psi) methanol pump. I've heard some of the diesel guys run pressure levela up to 1000psi some how and I fear a 200-300psi pump will have too much pressure drop with 5 nozzles on one system (4 direct port and one pre turbo), the 4 nozzles will activate with tue pump and an output on the ecu would open a valve inline with the preturbo nozzle.

This is how I can control 2 systems on one pump but I fear the shear flow volume could cause up to a 50+psi drop in system pressure, causing a degradation in nozzle atomization.

Aquamist has done exstinsive research on pre turbo injection (I think I posted this already) and found that a high atomization fogger nozzle aimed at the center of the wheel eliminates all wheel erosion. Pre turbo injection, depnding upon nozzle selection, flow rate and pressure, combined with turbo outlet pressure can drop outlet temps well below ambient, some people have reported condensation and even ice on hotside piping and intercooler depending upon weather conditions and boost, etc. Which makes intercooling almost moot

I will be running an aggressive 70/30 methanol/w water mixture for more substantial cooling effect and octane/knock resistance increase. Potentially pure methanol pre-turbo if I run 2 systems. My concerns about corroding intake components from puddling/pooling/ residual fluid will be lowered by hard coat anodizing almost everything.

Compressor nut and wheel, possibly the compressor housing, intercooler piping, inside the intercooler (need to assess impact on intercooler efficiency and cooling capacity before that), intake plenum, ITBs (bodies), as well as runners. I might see if powdercoating will work, I haven't researched it's resistance to corrosive agents.

Anodizing will be cheap as the shop I used to work for anodizes in bulk with a local company and they still let me use company resources, but because the methanol/water mixture (or straight methanol) converts to a gas when leaving the turbo outlet I might be able to skip most of the anodizing, leaving only the turbocharger cold side to be coated and anything downstream of the direct port intake nozzles.

As far as failsafes, I'll have a hobbs switch or analog pressure sender wired to the ecu, one for each system, wired to the ecu and gauges or Tunerview incar for realtime monitoring and datalogging. Also a hobbs switch wired to leds and a piezoelectric buzzer for visual and auditory warning should pressure drop below a preset level.

Upon failure the ecu will pull timing and lower boost, possibly fuel as well (would want a slightly richer mixture to combar knock should one system fail) if a double system failure occurs the ecu will switch maps entirely to one tuned without the use of methanol and possibly a slightly lowered rpm limit for both (need to explore my standalones failsafe features and limitations in-depth (AEM EMS)

I'll have multiple leds, one per monitoring/failsafe measure in different colors next to key vehicle monitoring devices (cluster/dash, next to gauges, circuit breakers (visual only), and one above each Tunerview2 (I'll be daisy chaining two probably where the stock cluster sat, I know I don't want to use an oem 99-00 civic cluster so I'm debating on an s2k or AIM display) that light up should a system fail (again having visual indication of a failure is better than constantly scanning multiple monitoring measures

Things like coolant temp, coolant system pressure [probably running an electric water pump down the road. Be nice to know its's working... same for the stock pump until the change], oil pressure and temp, fuel pressure. Methanol injection pressure and flow, trans cooler pump on, pressure and temp, trans cooler fan on, oil cooler fan on, oil cooler thermostat function (opening and closing) radiator fan, air/fuel too lean/rich, wideband fault, vtec engagement, vtec solenoid pressure, etc the list goes on) sounds overkill but with the time, effort, money plus blood sweat and tears and thought/planning put into this build, the slightest of failures could be the indicator to the start of a bigger issue or cause catastrophic failure. Something I would take no joy in repairing. Plus going around road racing ***** out a visual indicator (plus the buzzer) is the best way to alert me to a failure since I'd be focused on the track. I'll also try to incorporate one big bright *** master led, mounted on the dash at the base of the windshield or under the dash piece that sits above the cluster within my immediate field of view so I know there's a problem and I can identify the system from there, like a check engine light on steroids..

and major systems will also have piezoelectric buzzers, each with a different tone to distinguish one system from another. I know it sounds complex but whether street driving or at the road course days, being able to catch a failure asap and taking the proper steps to preserve drivetrain component health is key.

I don't want to break or damage components, I want to build it right the first time and ensure longevity and performance, especially since I'm broke and don't want to redo things lol

On that note as first stated I'm looking for the king of all pumps as well as nozzles that produce a foglike cloud/super fine mist as opposed to droplets. Complete atomization is key to the success and performance of my setup. I've seen photos of these supposed 800-1000psi systems with fogger nozzles and it looks like fog, the mixture literally hangs in the air. I know I don't need a pump or pumps (poossibly multiple pumps in series to get pressures that high?) that serious but I don't think a 300psi pump will do what I want. At least not one pump for 5 nozzles

Sorry for the rambling post, trying to share and receive some insight and advice and maybe give someone else a good idea or myself and others receive a better idea for system monitoring and failsafe measure establishment

The big thing is again the pump and super awesome nozzles. The keystone to my systems success, without a good pump and nozzles I'm dead in the water

Thanks in advance. Please feel free to comment/debate/give constructive criticism about my proposed ideas

 

P.S. donate to my cause?