What does this have to do with forced induction?
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From: Okie in training, usa
Re: Re: (Tony the Tiger)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tony the Tiger »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So the goal was to build a turbo setup with the widest powerband possible and INSTANTANEOUS engine/throttle response. None of the 350+ WHP and turbos bigger than their face BS I see too often. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Are ya crazy?? I can't believe you went with a GT28 and not an SC61! (dripping sarcasm...)
If I had a nickel for every Honda with a turbo that was 10x too large...
Are ya crazy?? I can't believe you went with a GT28 and not an SC61! (dripping sarcasm...)
If I had a nickel for every Honda with a turbo that was 10x too large...
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Re: What does this have to do with forced induction? (Tony the Tiger)
So when you're running someone and you shift, do they ever hear the BOV? Or is it really quiet? I love your stealth set-up, clever stuff.
BTW, where do you get that thermal paint from?
BTW, where do you get that thermal paint from?
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Re: What does this have to do with forced induction? (Tony the Tiger)
crazy...double check that you arent getting pos. pressure into the valve cover. If you are it will help with spool time (just like a boost leak).
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Re: What does this have to do with forced induction? (m3bluegsr)
heh,
I don't want to turn this into a turbo debate, but different sized turbos are meant for differnt applications. If winning strait line races is the main goal of most turbo honda's, then their turbo's are definitly not, "too large.."
i bet that set up is very fun to drive and would do well on a road course too!
I don't want to turn this into a turbo debate, but different sized turbos are meant for differnt applications. If winning strait line races is the main goal of most turbo honda's, then their turbo's are definitly not, "too large.."
i bet that set up is very fun to drive and would do well on a road course too!
Re: What does this have to do with forced induction? (DIRep972)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DIRep972 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">heh,
I don't want to turn this into a turbo debate, but different sized turbos are meant for differnt applications. If winning strait line races is the main goal of most turbo honda's, then their turbo's are definitly not, "too large.."
i bet that set up is very fun to drive and would do well on a road course too!</TD></TR></TABLE>
word. I think with a smaller turbo it give it a much more usable powerband and at the same time very liniar(sp) and smooth boost engagement.
I don't want to turn this into a turbo debate, but different sized turbos are meant for differnt applications. If winning strait line races is the main goal of most turbo honda's, then their turbo's are definitly not, "too large.."
i bet that set up is very fun to drive and would do well on a road course too!</TD></TR></TABLE>
word. I think with a smaller turbo it give it a much more usable powerband and at the same time very liniar(sp) and smooth boost engagement.
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Re: What does this have to do with forced induction? (DIRep972)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DIRep972 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">heh,
I don't want to turn this into a turbo debate, but different sized turbos are meant for differnt applications. If winning strait line races is the main goal of most turbo honda's, then their turbo's are definitly not, "too large.."
i bet that set up is very fun to drive and would do well on a road course too!</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree....I was thinking of trying a similar setup to this but i just love the feeling of how hard a big turbo hits. Ive been in plenty of smaller turbo/fast cars and there def fun, just don't put you back in the seat as hard as a little lag + big turbo..different strokes for different folks
Sick setup with the ITB's. Im thinking of trying something similar this winter
I don't want to turn this into a turbo debate, but different sized turbos are meant for differnt applications. If winning strait line races is the main goal of most turbo honda's, then their turbo's are definitly not, "too large.."
i bet that set up is very fun to drive and would do well on a road course too!</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree....I was thinking of trying a similar setup to this but i just love the feeling of how hard a big turbo hits. Ive been in plenty of smaller turbo/fast cars and there def fun, just don't put you back in the seat as hard as a little lag + big turbo..different strokes for different folks
Sick setup with the ITB's. Im thinking of trying something similar this winter
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Re:
So many comments and questions...lol I will try to group all my answers into one post.
Stealthiness has always been good to me... Whether it was the strict cops hassling me on the streets of Toronto, or non-import guys thinking they lost to a fully decked out Honda... but it appeared to be stock with bolt-ons
ITB's in general are good for every application. First, the individual throttles allows consistent airflow into each cylinder which is what most intake manifolds you see out there are trying to achieve. Not much can really can replicate what an ITB can do in terms of dividing the air. Secondly, because the throttle plate is located within inches of the intake port, the air doesn't have to go through a long path before it gets into the engine.
In a regular intake manifold, once the throttle opens, the air has to be sucked through the butterfly, divide into 4 paths, make a 90deg turn, go along the runners and then it can enter into the engine. This is lag, or the split second hesitiation commonly known. Whether it is boost or NA, having air readily available for the engine gives response, and having consistent air into each cylinder allows finer tuning and more power to be made. Such examples are Nissan RB26DETT which comes with ITB's from the factory, and couple of SR20DET's.. Indy cars as well, have ITB's with boost.
Hey Art, the IC you sold me went to the T66 Camry...
Again, props to your great service as always
Leed, tuning was different with the ITB's... I had the same probs when I was all motor. But I got an easy way out this time because whenever I get on the throttle (30+ % throttle) at 1500+ RPM, boost starts to build up and it brings the maps to positive pressure. So what I have done was tune the vacuum ranges much leaner so the motor won't be flooded out during cruise/light throttle conditions, but when I mash the gas a bit, the A/F will be on par because the engine will enter boost.
I also tuned the throttle enrichment/deflection to become very sensitive and with a very slow decay time. When I go mash the gas quick, the fuel would be there and the slow decay time would allow the fuel to stay long enough until the engine builds boost to bring the maps to positive manifold pressure. The timing maps follow a usual curve...
Anyway, the valvecover breather tube is fake... DrPooface guessed it right
The 1/2" hose you see at the front valvecover is the actual breather... It is routed to a bung in the exhaust for an exhaust PCV evacuation.
The intercooler was coated by a local coaters place... Not sure if they do business with the US, but here's the website:
http://members.rogers.com/gpengineering//heat.htm
Charlie Moua, I liked the spool of the T28, but I have been inside a couple of turbo B-series and D-series with T28 and there was still noticeable turbo lag. Power came nice between 4000-6500RPM, but the top-end runs out of breath too quickly as well. It doesn't pin you down against the seat continuously.
It was a hard decision, but after some extensive research, the GT28RS was perfect. The turbo is good up to 320 WHP, and the dual BB gives the quick boost response time. It came with a larger .82 A/R turbine housing which should allow the engine to breath properly up to a 9200RPM redline. Early spool is one thing, but during a race, the most important thing is to continue the acceleration between shifts, or at the instant you mash the throttle.
Hey DIRep972, I completely understand what you are saying. But let's say I lay down about 320 WHP with my current setup... Can you imagine how much more power a laggy turbo setup would need to be able to hang with me? It's like back in the all motor days when guys with 200 WHP NA setups were raping these 280-300+ WHP Drag turbo guys... both stand still and highway (except 5th gear).
I want to be able to achieve this with boost as well... Imagine the powerband and response of an NA setup, but with the numbers of a boosted setup. That's my goal. I am all about big power as well, hence my Camry...rofl But in a Honda, it's all about the balance and effectively using every RPM it can rev up to. A non-peaky powerband all the way up to 9200RPM is simply amazing. Never stops pulling.
Modified by Tony the Tiger at 11:54 PM 1/31/2005
Stealthiness has always been good to me... Whether it was the strict cops hassling me on the streets of Toronto, or non-import guys thinking they lost to a fully decked out Honda... but it appeared to be stock with bolt-ons
ITB's in general are good for every application. First, the individual throttles allows consistent airflow into each cylinder which is what most intake manifolds you see out there are trying to achieve. Not much can really can replicate what an ITB can do in terms of dividing the air. Secondly, because the throttle plate is located within inches of the intake port, the air doesn't have to go through a long path before it gets into the engine.
In a regular intake manifold, once the throttle opens, the air has to be sucked through the butterfly, divide into 4 paths, make a 90deg turn, go along the runners and then it can enter into the engine. This is lag, or the split second hesitiation commonly known. Whether it is boost or NA, having air readily available for the engine gives response, and having consistent air into each cylinder allows finer tuning and more power to be made. Such examples are Nissan RB26DETT which comes with ITB's from the factory, and couple of SR20DET's.. Indy cars as well, have ITB's with boost.
Hey Art, the IC you sold me went to the T66 Camry...
Again, props to your great service as always Leed, tuning was different with the ITB's... I had the same probs when I was all motor. But I got an easy way out this time because whenever I get on the throttle (30+ % throttle) at 1500+ RPM, boost starts to build up and it brings the maps to positive pressure. So what I have done was tune the vacuum ranges much leaner so the motor won't be flooded out during cruise/light throttle conditions, but when I mash the gas a bit, the A/F will be on par because the engine will enter boost.
I also tuned the throttle enrichment/deflection to become very sensitive and with a very slow decay time. When I go mash the gas quick, the fuel would be there and the slow decay time would allow the fuel to stay long enough until the engine builds boost to bring the maps to positive manifold pressure. The timing maps follow a usual curve...
Anyway, the valvecover breather tube is fake... DrPooface guessed it right
The 1/2" hose you see at the front valvecover is the actual breather... It is routed to a bung in the exhaust for an exhaust PCV evacuation.
The intercooler was coated by a local coaters place... Not sure if they do business with the US, but here's the website:
http://members.rogers.com/gpengineering//heat.htm
Charlie Moua, I liked the spool of the T28, but I have been inside a couple of turbo B-series and D-series with T28 and there was still noticeable turbo lag. Power came nice between 4000-6500RPM, but the top-end runs out of breath too quickly as well. It doesn't pin you down against the seat continuously.
It was a hard decision, but after some extensive research, the GT28RS was perfect. The turbo is good up to 320 WHP, and the dual BB gives the quick boost response time. It came with a larger .82 A/R turbine housing which should allow the engine to breath properly up to a 9200RPM redline. Early spool is one thing, but during a race, the most important thing is to continue the acceleration between shifts, or at the instant you mash the throttle.
Hey DIRep972, I completely understand what you are saying. But let's say I lay down about 320 WHP with my current setup... Can you imagine how much more power a laggy turbo setup would need to be able to hang with me? It's like back in the all motor days when guys with 200 WHP NA setups were raping these 280-300+ WHP Drag turbo guys... both stand still and highway (except 5th gear
).I want to be able to achieve this with boost as well... Imagine the powerband and response of an NA setup, but with the numbers of a boosted setup. That's my goal. I am all about big power as well, hence my Camry...rofl
But in a Honda, it's all about the balance and effectively using every RPM it can rev up to. A non-peaky powerband all the way up to 9200RPM is simply amazing. Never stops pulling.Modified by Tony the Tiger at 11:54 PM 1/31/2005
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Re: Re: (Tony the Tiger)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tony the Tiger »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Hey DIRep972, I completely understand what you are saying. But let's say I lay down about 320 WHP with my current setup... Can you imagine how much more power a laggy turbo setup would need to be able to hang with me? It's like back in the all motor days when guys with 200 WHP NA setups were raping these 280-300+ WHP Drag turbo guys... both stand still and highway (except 5th gear).
I want to be able to achieve this with boost as well... Imagine the powerband and response of an NA setup, but with the numbers of a boosted setup. That's my goal. I am all about big power as well, hence my Camry...rofl But in a Honda, it's all about the balance and effectively using every RPM it can rev up to. A non-peaky powerband all the way up to 9200RPM is simply amazing. Never stops pulling.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I really can't argue w/ that. I know first hand how you can take advantage of the power in an all motor car, or any car for that matter w/ a linear powerband from start to finish. Your car on the 1-2 and into the 3 will definitly get out on all similarly powered "big turbo" cars. Only thing is you gotta hold em off through the 3 & 4. where lag/broad powerband are not nearly as important as all out power. I see what you're doin though, your car is gonna kill most turbo cars w/ similar trap speeds and peak power.
Hey DIRep972, I completely understand what you are saying. But let's say I lay down about 320 WHP with my current setup... Can you imagine how much more power a laggy turbo setup would need to be able to hang with me? It's like back in the all motor days when guys with 200 WHP NA setups were raping these 280-300+ WHP Drag turbo guys... both stand still and highway (except 5th gear
).I want to be able to achieve this with boost as well... Imagine the powerband and response of an NA setup, but with the numbers of a boosted setup. That's my goal. I am all about big power as well, hence my Camry...rofl
But in a Honda, it's all about the balance and effectively using every RPM it can rev up to. A non-peaky powerband all the way up to 9200RPM is simply amazing. Never stops pulling.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I really can't argue w/ that. I know first hand how you can take advantage of the power in an all motor car, or any car for that matter w/ a linear powerband from start to finish. Your car on the 1-2 and into the 3 will definitly get out on all similarly powered "big turbo" cars. Only thing is you gotta hold em off through the 3 & 4.
where lag/broad powerband are not nearly as important as all out power. I see what you're doin though, your car is gonna kill most turbo cars w/ similar trap speeds and peak power.
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Re: Re: (DIRep972)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DIRep972 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I really can't argue w/ that. I know first hand how you can take advantage of the power in an all motor car, or any car for that matter w/ a linear powerband from start to finish. Your car on the 1-2 and into the 3 will definitly get out on all similarly powered "big turbo" cars. Only thing is you still gotta hold em off through the 3 & 4. where lag/broad powerband is not nearly as important as all out power. I see what you're doin though, your car is gonna kill most turbo cars w/ similar trap speeds. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yup, that's true... But if a laggy turbo setup puts out around the same power as I do, it's over I will be ahead and keep going ahead. Great to see those 500+ WHP Hondas out there, but hate to see those 500+ WHP Hondas back on pump gas with low boost on the streets though 
I am trying to get the word out to those who are getting these huge turbos for 350WHP ranges but yet they could do the same with a super tiny turbo like mine
I really can't argue w/ that. I know first hand how you can take advantage of the power in an all motor car, or any car for that matter w/ a linear powerband from start to finish. Your car on the 1-2 and into the 3 will definitly get out on all similarly powered "big turbo" cars. Only thing is you still gotta hold em off through the 3 & 4.
where lag/broad powerband is not nearly as important as all out power. I see what you're doin though, your car is gonna kill most turbo cars w/ similar trap speeds. </TD></TR></TABLE>Yup, that's true... But if a laggy turbo setup puts out around the same power as I do, it's over
I will be ahead and keep going ahead. Great to see those 500+ WHP Hondas out there, but hate to see those 500+ WHP Hondas back on pump gas with low boost on the streets though I am trying to get the word out to those who are getting these huge turbos for 350WHP ranges but yet they could do the same with a super tiny turbo like mine
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Re: Re: (Tony the Tiger)
haha thats true. I totally see what your car is set up for. It is definitly a different approach then what everyone else is taking and we all know there is not just one single way to go fast. Are you planning to run it down the 1/4? Id be really interested to see what kinda 330' and 1/8 mile times you pull. especially on drag radials.
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From: 106 and Park
Re: Re: (Tony the Tiger)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tony the Tiger »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yup, that's true... But if a laggy turbo setup puts out around the same power as I do, it's over I will be ahead and keep going ahead. Great to see those 500+ WHP Hondas out there, but hate to see those 500+ WHP Hondas back on pump gas with low boost on the streets though I am trying to get the word out to those who are getting these huge turbos for 350WHP ranges but yet they could do the same with a super tiny turbo like mine </TD></TR></TABLE>
my car runs close to 500whp on pump gas.
Yup, that's true... But if a laggy turbo setup puts out around the same power as I do, it's over
I will be ahead and keep going ahead. Great to see those 500+ WHP Hondas out there, but hate to see those 500+ WHP Hondas back on pump gas with low boost on the streets though I am trying to get the word out to those who are getting these huge turbos for 350WHP ranges but yet they could do the same with a super tiny turbo like mine </TD></TR></TABLE>my car runs close to 500whp on pump gas.
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From: San Luis Obispo, CA
Re: Re: (espanol)
Man, Tony I gotta give u some credit for doing some a great and stealthy job on this.
U have always had one of the cleanest cars and quickest allmotor, but still looking stock. Hope to see some dynos and some vids of the car once it is completed.
oh and u should post up some more pics or post a link to your site since i havent been on there in awhile.
U have always had one of the cleanest cars and quickest allmotor, but still looking stock. Hope to see some dynos and some vids of the car once it is completed.
oh and u should post up some more pics or post a link to your site since i havent been on there in awhile.
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From: Toronto, ON, Canada
Re:
Boostage, read my earlier posts for my setup...
My webpage is still up, but I haven't updated my Integra's section for a while. Only my Camry stuff has been updated recently
http://www.geocities.com/leunghomepage
My webpage is still up, but I haven't updated my Integra's section for a while. Only my Camry stuff has been updated recently
http://www.geocities.com/leunghomepage
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Re: (ILLICON3000)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ILLICON3000 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">good luck with 11.5 compression..we'll see how long that lasts. (one week two weeks tops)</TD></TR></TABLE>
Go shoot your self.
Go shoot your self.