Turbo power?
02-14-2006, 12:16 PM
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Turbo power?
How much power can this turbo make?
garrett t3/t4
T04 60 trim, 70mm Compressor wheel, 0.60 a/r
center section: Dynamic seal, oil cooled, Hi precision balanced to 0,3gr. at 2500 RPM!
T3 turbine, 72 trim wheel (STG1), 0.48 a/r housing, Ported bypass hole,
02-14-2006, 02:49 PM
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Re: Turbo power? (ultrablackhatch)
yeah but i am just wondering like ball park figures....i am looking for 350ish hp on a built b16...would this turbo work?
02-15-2006, 03:08 PM
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Although I am not an expert by anymeans, this is my "opinion" from what I have experienced and seen myself.
The .48 ar on the hot side with a B16 is going to cause a small problem in reaching your goals. The compressor side is plenty but the exhaust side is going to be a bit on the small side for the RPM and airflow required to support that kind of power. You would still be able to make it I "think" but you would have to run a pretty large amount of boost and it is going to create more heat. If you had a larger exhaust AR, you would be able to make the same power with lower boost but higher in the RPM range.
Once again, I am not an expert but this is what I have been taught from smarter people over time while putting together boosted cars. I could be off a bit on this info but I think it's close.
The .48 ar on the hot side with a B16 is going to cause a small problem in reaching your goals. The compressor side is plenty but the exhaust side is going to be a bit on the small side for the RPM and airflow required to support that kind of power. You would still be able to make it I "think" but you would have to run a pretty large amount of boost and it is going to create more heat. If you had a larger exhaust AR, you would be able to make the same power with lower boost but higher in the RPM range.
Once again, I am not an expert but this is what I have been taught from smarter people over time while putting together boosted cars. I could be off a bit on this info but I think it's close.
02-15-2006, 05:06 PM
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Re: (Jay_Sensing)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jay_Sensing »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Although I am not an expert by anymeans, this is my "opinion" from what I have experienced and seen myself.
The .48 ar on the hot side with a B16 is going to cause a small problem in reaching your goals. The compressor side is plenty but the exhaust side is going to be a bit on the small side for the RPM and airflow required to support that kind of power. You would still be able to make it I "think" but you would have to run a pretty large amount of boost and it is going to create more heat. If you had a larger exhaust AR, you would be able to make the same power with lower boost but higher in the RPM range.
Once again, I am not an expert but this is what I have been taught from smarter people over time while putting together boosted cars. I could be off a bit on this info but I think it's close.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry your close but wrong....
The .48 housing will only determine when the turbo will reach full boost. Since the exhaust housing is smaller (.48 a/r) the turbo will reach full boost sooner in the power band. This does not usually effect top end because the turbo will be spinning at the same rate throughout the entire power band all the way up to redline.
Now if the turbo did have a larger exhaust housing (say a .63 a/r) the turbo would reach full boost later in the power band, but the shaft speed will still be the same all the way through the rpm range at full boost.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by userdead626 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How much power can this turbo make?
garrett t3/t4
T04 60 trim, 70mm Compressor wheel, 0.60 a/r
center section: Dynamic seal, oil cooled, Hi precision balanced to 0,3gr. at 2500 RPM!
T3 turbine, 72 trim wheel (STG1), 0.48 a/r housing, Ported bypass hole,</TD></TR></TABLE>
Is this a copy and paste from blaastperformance on ebay by chance?
The .48 ar on the hot side with a B16 is going to cause a small problem in reaching your goals. The compressor side is plenty but the exhaust side is going to be a bit on the small side for the RPM and airflow required to support that kind of power. You would still be able to make it I "think" but you would have to run a pretty large amount of boost and it is going to create more heat. If you had a larger exhaust AR, you would be able to make the same power with lower boost but higher in the RPM range.
Once again, I am not an expert but this is what I have been taught from smarter people over time while putting together boosted cars. I could be off a bit on this info but I think it's close.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry your close but wrong....
The .48 housing will only determine when the turbo will reach full boost. Since the exhaust housing is smaller (.48 a/r) the turbo will reach full boost sooner in the power band. This does not usually effect top end because the turbo will be spinning at the same rate throughout the entire power band all the way up to redline.
Now if the turbo did have a larger exhaust housing (say a .63 a/r) the turbo would reach full boost later in the power band, but the shaft speed will still be the same all the way through the rpm range at full boost.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by userdead626 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How much power can this turbo make?
garrett t3/t4
T04 60 trim, 70mm Compressor wheel, 0.60 a/r
center section: Dynamic seal, oil cooled, Hi precision balanced to 0,3gr. at 2500 RPM!
T3 turbine, 72 trim wheel (STG1), 0.48 a/r housing, Ported bypass hole,</TD></TR></TABLE>
Is this a copy and paste from blaastperformance on ebay by chance?
02-15-2006, 05:09 PM
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Re: (nickromeo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nickromeo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the .48 housing will be a restriction in the top rpms.</TD></TR></TABLE>
??? NO
??? NO
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02-15-2006, 05:40 PM
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Re: (InfamousDC2FI)
A bigger exhaust housing will flow more!
If that where not true why would anyone a larger turbine? Becuase they WANT a turbo that spools hella late? No sorry.
If that where not true why would anyone a larger turbine? Becuase they WANT a turbo that spools hella late? No sorry.
02-15-2006, 06:13 PM
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Re: (voltronR34)
ok hold up.....
Please prove to me that a larger exhaust housing will flow more.....say we take the two most common exhaust housing sizes ..... .48 and .63 . They both have the same trim turbine wheels. How is it that the .63 will flow more??? The exhaust gasses have to excrete out the same size turbine wheel no matter if it is a .48 or a .63 therefore I cant see how a larger housing would "flow more".
Please prove to me that a larger exhaust housing will flow more.....say we take the two most common exhaust housing sizes ..... .48 and .63 . They both have the same trim turbine wheels. How is it that the .63 will flow more??? The exhaust gasses have to excrete out the same size turbine wheel no matter if it is a .48 or a .63 therefore I cant see how a larger housing would "flow more".
02-15-2006, 06:38 PM
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Re: (InfamousDC2FI)
Less of an obstruction for the exhaust gases. They will flow more freely through the housing. Consquently, more exhaust gas will be required to do the same ammount of work. Hence the later spool.
02-16-2006, 10:52 AM
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Re: (voltronR34)
ok yes maybe the exhaust has more room to flow inside the housing, but it still is put up with the "bottle neck effect" of having to escape out the turbine wheel into the downpipe just like the smaller housing.....you see what im saying??
02-16-2006, 11:12 AM
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Re: (InfamousDC2FI)
I do see what you are saying. And really, I am far from a turbo expert. What I do know is this:
Given everything else the same ( same engine tune boost compressor everything ) the larger turbine will make more power, but spool later. The smaller turbine will make its power sooner, and show a drop in the upper RPMs.
Whatever the mechanics/phsyics of turbine flow, I am not qualified to explain. But I have seen enough dynos to know the results. The results are very consistent. I will email a buddy of mine who is a mechanical engeneer, and see what he has to say about all this.
Given everything else the same ( same engine tune boost compressor everything ) the larger turbine will make more power, but spool later. The smaller turbine will make its power sooner, and show a drop in the upper RPMs.
Whatever the mechanics/phsyics of turbine flow, I am not qualified to explain. But I have seen enough dynos to know the results. The results are very consistent. I will email a buddy of mine who is a mechanical engeneer, and see what he has to say about all this.
02-16-2006, 12:06 PM
#13
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Re: (InfamousDC2FI)
straight from http://www.turbobygarrett.com/...tml#b
Turbine A/R - Turbine performance is greatly affected by changing the A/R of the housing, as it is used to adjust the flow capacity of the turbine. Using a smaller A/R will increase the exhaust gas velocity into the turbine wheel. This provides increased turbine power at lower engine speeds, resulting in a quicker boost rise. However, a small A/R also causes the flow to enter the wheel more tangentially, which reduces the ultimate flow capacity of the turbine wheel. This will tend to increase exhaust backpressure and hence reduce the engine's ability to "breathe" effectively at high RPM, adversely affecting peak engine power.
Conversely, using a larger A/R will lower exhaust gas velocity, and delay boost rise. The flow in a larger A/R housing enters the wheel in a more radial fashion, increasing the wheel's effective flow capacity, resulting in lower backpressure and better power at higher engine speeds.
When deciding between A/R options, be realistic with the intended vehicle use and use the A/R to bias the performance toward the desired powerband characteristic.
Turbine A/R - Turbine performance is greatly affected by changing the A/R of the housing, as it is used to adjust the flow capacity of the turbine. Using a smaller A/R will increase the exhaust gas velocity into the turbine wheel. This provides increased turbine power at lower engine speeds, resulting in a quicker boost rise. However, a small A/R also causes the flow to enter the wheel more tangentially, which reduces the ultimate flow capacity of the turbine wheel. This will tend to increase exhaust backpressure and hence reduce the engine's ability to "breathe" effectively at high RPM, adversely affecting peak engine power.
Conversely, using a larger A/R will lower exhaust gas velocity, and delay boost rise. The flow in a larger A/R housing enters the wheel in a more radial fashion, increasing the wheel's effective flow capacity, resulting in lower backpressure and better power at higher engine speeds.
When deciding between A/R options, be realistic with the intended vehicle use and use the A/R to bias the performance toward the desired powerband characteristic.
02-16-2006, 12:15 PM
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Re: (dpetro1)
I am no turbo expert either but this is what i have concluded from reading this,
so would everyone agree that the .63 has more potential because there is the answer... but the real question is will the turbo he mentioned make 350hp well there are alot of variables there but chances are it will get close. Correct me if im wrong please.
so would everyone agree that the .63 has more potential because there is the answer... but the real question is will the turbo he mentioned make 350hp well there are alot of variables there but chances are it will get close. Correct me if im wrong please.
02-16-2006, 12:21 PM
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Re: (rlyoung)
well im not exactly sure about this specific turbo. i couldnt find any info on the .48ar, stage 1 turbine. but since its a 60 trim t3/t4 i would think its more than enough for 350hp.
this garrett t3/t04e 60 trim .63ar is claiming 475whp (stage 3 turbine)
http://store.yahoo.com/cheaptu....html
this garrett t3/t04e 60 trim .63ar is claiming 475whp (stage 3 turbine)
http://store.yahoo.com/cheaptu....html
02-16-2006, 12:32 PM
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Re: (dpetro1)
That is the exact turbo I have. Bought from the same store even. I blew it up already. Anyone want to buy a needs-to-be-rebuilt 60trim .63 Garrett?
I ordered a .48 50 trim to replace it. I don't have big power goals, I am looking for better response.
I ordered a .48 50 trim to replace it. I don't have big power goals, I am looking for better response.
02-16-2006, 02:32 PM
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Re: (dpetro1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dpetro1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">PM, adversely affecting peak engine power.
Conversely, using a larger A/R will lower exhaust gas velocity, and delay boost rise. The flow in a larger A/R housing enters the wheel in a more radial fashion, increasing the wheel's effective flow capacity, resulting in lower backpressure and better power at higher engine speeds.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That makes sense
I guess I wasnt 100% correct, i admit defeat...lol. I guess its really going to be a matter of what kind of power band your looking for. I hear that the .48 makes for a killer mid range.
Id like to see some dynos of a .48 vs. a .63 housing. Im just wondering how much loss in top end we are talking about here? 15-20hp? I dont know if it would be worth stepping up to the .63 if the gains in the mid range were more appealing...
Interesting... good stuff...
Conversely, using a larger A/R will lower exhaust gas velocity, and delay boost rise. The flow in a larger A/R housing enters the wheel in a more radial fashion, increasing the wheel's effective flow capacity, resulting in lower backpressure and better power at higher engine speeds.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That makes sense
I guess I wasnt 100% correct, i admit defeat...lol. I guess its really going to be a matter of what kind of power band your looking for. I hear that the .48 makes for a killer mid range. Id like to see some dynos of a .48 vs. a .63 housing. Im just wondering how much loss in top end we are talking about here? 15-20hp? I dont know if it would be worth stepping up to the .63 if the gains in the mid range were more appealing...
Interesting... good stuff...
02-16-2006, 05:56 PM
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Re: (InfamousDC2FI)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by InfamousDC2FI »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That makes sense I guess I wasnt 100% correct, i admit defeat...lol. I guess its really going to be a matter of what kind of power band your looking for. I hear that the .48 makes for a killer mid range.
Id like to see some dynos of a .48 vs. a .63 housing. Im just wondering how much loss in top end we are talking about here? 15-20hp? I dont know if it would be worth stepping up to the .63 if the gains in the mid range were more appealing...
Interesting... good stuff... </TD></TR></TABLE>
You were also a bit confused with the shaft speed.
Shaft speed will NOT be constant at full boost as you move through the rpm. That's like saying your drive-shaft speed will stay constant as your speed rises.
I guess I wasnt 100% correct, i admit defeat...lol. I guess its really going to be a matter of what kind of power band your looking for. I hear that the .48 makes for a killer mid range. Id like to see some dynos of a .48 vs. a .63 housing. Im just wondering how much loss in top end we are talking about here? 15-20hp? I dont know if it would be worth stepping up to the .63 if the gains in the mid range were more appealing...
Interesting... good stuff...
</TD></TR></TABLE>You were also a bit confused with the shaft speed.
Shaft speed will NOT be constant at full boost as you move through the rpm. That's like saying your drive-shaft speed will stay constant as your speed rises.
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