EH2LS

Lets consider this a debate among those who really know what they're talking about...

Earl said the following regarding benson sleeves...yet Vince from GE said the following as well.

Now my question is, yes, vince said sleeves may or may not need the line boring, but is earl correct on the 100% guarantee for the block NOT to need the boring?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The problem with Benson Sleeves is that they were always more expensive...until now. Here is the deal. I have made a deal with Dan to produce the Benson Signature Series Block. This block from start to finish will be touched only by Dan Benson...NO ONE ELSE...PERIOD. It is 100% guaranteed not to drop sleeves, not to need an align bore after-wards, not to leak, not to be surfaced crooked, not to have egg shaped honed sleeves...It will all be done by Dan Benson. NO EXCUSES. Blocks include finished bore to your piston's specs, O-rings (or raised deck if preferred) at no extra cost.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GoldenEagleMfg.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

As for the main line bore, this has been brought up before and I will go through it again. ANY SLEEVE COMPANY TAKES THE RISK OF HAVING THE LINE BORE OUT OF ALIGNMENT WHEN SLEEVING. We do not remove any more material than the next company. It is just the inherent nature of castings, especially aluminum, that when ANY amount of material is removed, the casting will "relax" and MAY change shape a little. This is not something that only happens with Golden Eagle, it can happen with ANY sleeving company regardless of what they say. If they tell you that there is no possible way for this to happen if you go to them, they are full of it. When I build a motor that has been sleeved, I always line bore the main journals, ALWAYS. It is just good motor building practice to do so.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm sorry if it seems like im singling out earl and vince, but all IM trying to do is get a straight answer, I Don't want to have my block sleeved, not line/align bore it, and find out later i should've after something blows up

then again, its always nice to save the 250 or wahtever dollars it costs to have the block line/align bored

t04ecvc

Yeah I wanna know also. There should be a way for them to check if it needs it, right. If it does then do it, if not, no worries. I already decided to have GE do my block, but any further info can only help us.

leadfoot78

I would like to know too! Line boring is expensive but I dont want spun barings on my freshly polished and balanced LS crank. Do you guys think that plasti-guage can show if it needs a line bore or not?

Flamenco-T

Here's one way you can check if it needs line boring or not, install the crank, pistons and rods, and try to turn the crank by hand. If it doesn't turn by hand, then your cylinder may be off and it needs to be line bore. That's the only way I know to check it.

Line boring, wether you need it or not, depending on the preparation, again, I agree with Vince that almost all metals have memory and have tendency to go with the shape they were before they were alter, but again, if you have done this for a while, then you know how much to cut within that tolerance. we work around tolerance and understanding how metal reacted can help you to reduce of a chance of cutting excessively.

I have seen some GE's block that is perfect from the dead go, including my own personally and some that needed line boring, as far as benson, I have not seen any that require line boring after it arrives from Benson.

If you have the money, it's always a good investment, but if you can assemble them and see if the crank turns by hand, then you will be okay.

stan

t04ecvc

I was told that by another H-T member and it makes sense. I just would hate to put it all together and then pull again if i could help it.

X-Mazda 3 Racer

Here is the deal, the whole deal. There is no definitive way to check the line bore exept to do the following:
1. Make sure the crank is straight and true.
2. Measure the line bore diameters to be sure they are all the same and within the .0008" spec given by most bearing manufacturers.
2. Make sure the clearance on the crank is where you want it to be. +/- .0002
3. Install the crank and bearings and torque accordingly.
4. Spin the crank to check for binding or plastigauge all the journals. If all the main bores measure the same size, that doesn't mean that they will show the same on plasigauge UNLESS the line bore is straight and true as well as the crank. If you do not have the means to measure the line bore diameters, or if you do not know how to check the line bore for correct alignment ( please don't take this the wrong way ) but you do not need to be building motors! It's like taking your car to a place that does not have the correct tools or knowledge to get the job done right, no one in their right mind would do that! Motor building is an art and something that is learned from experience, it's not like putting together Legos. You cannot just plop the crank in and expect everything to be perfect. If this were true, then everyone would be able to build top fuel motors and such, it's just not like that. Maybe it is that easy when you are doind a standard rebuild of a motor and all you have to do is match bearing codes and voiala, a built motor, but perofmrnace motors require alot more in depth machining, measuring and and such that is all determined by the builders experiences in whichever field of motor he/she is building. Take it from me, I thought 4 years ago that I knew it all, just to find out that I didn't know 1/1000 of it. I am still learning as is everyone else. The motors that I build have the experience of street and strip use, but I cannot build a top fuler motor, yet!

My saying is this, you can spend alot now, or alot more later! Unless you are really interested in building motors as a big hobby, or you want to do it as a career, you have to expect to be drug through the dirt before you get it right. Experience is key in motor building, there are no two ways to look at it.

93LSivic

Vince, Im still wondering how in a post i read a while back that every block you build gets the mains stretch gauged. How do you do that

X-Mazda 3 Racer

It's called a drop gauge. It sits on the oil pan flange or top of the head deck surface and can measure the increase in stud length in .0001" increments. I will post a pic for you if you still doubt me? All the things I have learned by speaking with F1 engine builders and stud experts such as A1 technologies ( LISI areospace ) are put into every motor I build. Small things like knowing EXACT stretch numbers and having access to their $800,000 testing facility to check for proper lube and TQ specs make this job alot more fun, and alot better, for the end consumer.

Let me correct myself, this procedure only works for studed applications.

leadfoot78

I already installed my top main bearings and put the crank on top of them and spun it, it went very easy but I don't have my rods and pistons so I couldn’t plasti-gauge anything. I did measure crank run-out and it was minimal, the gauge hardly moved. I know that if the crank was bent than it would show, if I had no binding and no run-out am I going to be ok? Or do I need to install every thing and then check for binding? I was going to buy a girdle but I don't think I will since it is so hard to install it right, I don’t want a line bore if I don't need one, I know it may do more bad than good.

Skinner

I talked to Endyn about doing my motor. They told me they use GE sleeves and they always line bore every block after it comes back from sleeving. They said that it adds $245 to the cost of the build up.

93LSivic

Vince I would be interested in seeing a pic of that tool.....seems interesting. I figured if it was possible then it could only be done with main studs and not bolts.

X-Mazda 3 Racer

93LSivic, I corrected myself in my post. This type of measuring procedure is only applicable on studed applications, not bolts.

t04ecvc

I never got around to it, but thanks Vince for your answers. I appreciate the info.

X-Mazda 3 Racer

That is what I am here for, to answer any questions to the best of my knowledge. Thanks for the appreciation