Yeh that makes sense, so blocking the oil squirters which bumps up the oil pressure then its safer running a oil cooler which is gona drop the oil pressure back down.

So it as Earl says with the oil cooler putting more stress on the pump it would make sense to get a uprated pump, which oil pumps the way to go then?

Sorry for all the questions over here in the UK theres no pro honda engine builder at the corner of every street

Thanks in advance
BillB

 

sorry this may seem kind of off-topic:


Anyone happen to know if the GSR oil squirters will fit in the H22? I am looking for a set and not sure if the GSR jets will fit in the H22....


Anyone know?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BillB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So it as Earl says with the oil cooler putting more stress on the pump it would make sense to get a uprated pump, which oil pumps the way to go then?</TD></TR></TABLE>Ya you will not be needing the squirters with the CP pistons.
I dont think you need an upgraded oil pump either. You could run a new pump gear from someone like toda or prodrive but that just raises the pressure it does not really make the pump any stronger, except fot the actual gear part. If the gear is what you are worried about then I would get a Fluidamper before I got a new gear. If you wanted, a good upgrade you could always go with is a sumped setup with an external pump. I am not sure you will really need all that though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NoVALude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anyone happen to know if the GSR oil squirters will fit in the H22? I am looking for a set and not sure if the GSR jets will fit in the H22....
</TD></TR></TABLE>Absolutely not. Contact me directly if you need a set for the H22

 

FWIW, while we are on the subject of coolers, squirters, and pumps....when I installed my cooler I also noticed the drop in pressure. Rather than get rid of the squirters, something which I like to have for track days and such, I shimmed the oil pump relief spring. That bought me back my oil pressure + some. Just an option for those who do not want to plug the squirters. I think they do help stave off detonation, anything that draws heat out of the combustion chamber is OK with me!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nfn15037 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">FWIW, while we are on the subject of coolers, squirters, and pumps....when I installed my cooler I also noticed the drop in pressure. Rather than get rid of the squirters, something which I like to have for track days and such, I shimmed the oil pump relief spring. That bought me back my oil pressure + some. Just an option for those who do not want to plug the squirters. I think they do help stave off detonation, anything that draws heat out of the combustion chamber is OK with me!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am pretty sure that is putting alot more stress on the pump...as oppsed to plugging the oil squirters, you are not making the pump work any harder, just making better use of the oil pressure the pump already put out.....

 

Well it obvously makes the pump work a bit harder, but the oil squirters are necessary in my opinion. I just don't understand why someone would want to remove a device that could potentially reduce piston temps and keep detonation at bay. Get a Prodrive oul pump gearset if you are that worried about it, but I have been running my pump like this with an external oil cooler for ~130k miles with zero issues.

 

so with track days and boost you should keep the squirters?

 

why don't you guys that are worried about pressures just buy a different oil pump or shim the stock one? especially turbo guys, why risk the extra heat and possibly of blowing a motor for a couple horse. You may not melt a piston but you raise your detonation risk.

 

If you decide to shim the pump, use no more than a .050" shim. Shimming the pump definitely puts more load on it.

 

most of the people removing the squirters aren't on stock pistons...they are on forged ones, which absolutely do NOT NEED them....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by m R g S r &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">most of the people removing the squirters aren't on stock pistons...they are on forged ones, which absolutely do NOT NEED them....</TD></TR></TABLE>
thats a very bold statement, care to provide some facts to back yourself up. I understand how forged internals are stronger and can disapate heat better, but when you are running components without coatings, they are still going to absorb alot of heat. and as i stated before, just because its not goign to break that component itself down doesn;t mean that that heat can't do harm to other parts.

I personally would rather have the oil take that heat out and through a cooler than to have that extra heat transfered through the wristpins into the rods and onto the bearings then finally getting to the oil.

Also wondering do expansion sizes change? extra heat=more growth= looser tolerances? if so screw that, i'm more willing to get a higher volume pump and sacrafice like 5hp. And usually when you are running a built motor you are in the higher power ranges where hp doesn't matter as much as the driver

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16hybridsol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thats a very bold statement, care to provide some facts to back yourself up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Detonation should be kept in line by properly tuning your air/fuel through a standalone. A little oil on the bottom of a forged piston isn't going to do anything when it comes to preventing detonation if it happens.

People have been plugging oil squirters for a long time and I have yet to hear of one story in which they speculate the lack of oil squirters was the problem.

Earl not only builds race engines but also builds many street engines so I'm sure he gets lots of feedback from his customers if their are any problems. I'm going to trust a professional engine builder who has been working on honda's for years over someone simply speculating that plugging the squirters will cause problems.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't forget that running an oil cooler is much harder on your oil pump because of the extra volume and restrictions brought on by the heat exchanger.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I know you always recommend running a thicker viscosity full synthetic oil and changing it more often rather than using an oil cooler but are their any potential problems if your oil temps are as high as 245-255F on a street car?

Shouldn't oil temps be kept down to 220-230F ideally for power and reliability reasons? I know full synthetics can withstand temps as high as 270+, but with higher oil temps the engine is also running that much warmer.

What other solutions does one have when trying to keep their oil temperatures down?

hmmmm... I guess I could convert over to a oil/water oil cooler and use my oil/air cooler as the heat exchanger for the water to eliminate the long hoses altogether?

 

I don't have any real solutions other than to keep the tune-up proper. CP once told me that you can put spikes on top of a piston but as long as the tune-up is correct, no detonation will take place.

If I were running a road race vehicle with forged pistons, I might consider keeping the squirters just to help overall long term temps.

The reason Honda added oil squirters into their b16 and b18c is because they designed the motor with cast aluminum pistons AND a very tight piston to wall clearance. That motor was built for road racing and they felt that an increase in the piston diameter could be harmful to performance. The squirters were NEVER designed to control the heat of a turbocharger. The squirters are designed to control maybe 30 degrees of temp increase, not 200 degrees. If you are running very lean on boost, no amount of oil on the bottom of the piston will stop it from melting.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't have any real solutions other than to keep the tune-up proper. CP once told me that you can put spikes on top of a piston but as long as the tune-up is correct, no detonation will take place.

If I were running a road race vehicle with forged pistons, I might consider keeping the squirters just to help overall long term temps.

The reason Honda added oil squirters into their b16 and b18c is because they designed the motor with cast aluminum pistons AND a very tight piston to wall clearance. That motor was built for road racing and they felt that an increase in the piston diameter could be harmful to performance. The squirters were NEVER designed to control the heat of a turbocharger. The squirters are designed to control maybe 30 degrees of temp increase, not 200 degrees. If you are running very lean on boost, no amount of oil on the bottom of the piston will stop it from melting. </TD></TR></TABLE>

thank you for your advice.