boosted k20

im trying to tune a 98 integra GSR w/ built bottom end, 750cc's, 3-bar, full 3" exhaust, tuned on CROME GOLD. On the dyno the car would breakup as soon as VTEC came on. A/F was in the mid 11's and timing was set conservative (i've tuned countless cars with around the same timing values) So its not running rich and timings not too low.

I changed the plugs, gapped them smaller, changed ignition wires. but still it broke up. i opened up the distributor and found the screw holding the rotor came loose and had put a small dent in the distributor shaft. we bought a new dizzy the next day and it still had the same problems.

We checked all the grounds, timing belt, changed map sensor.... but still we had the same issues. Tonight i went to the shop to check the car out again. i noticed that the customer had installed a resistor box and he had RC high impedance 750cc's injectors! i finally thought that i had found the problem. i got rid of the resistor box BUT we still had the same problem. grrrhhh

I had a similiar problem on one of my friends cars i tuned last year on CROME PRO. When we swapped out crome for uberdata on my friends car, the ignition problems went away. So i tried to put uberdata in this car but i had the same results. i even changed the ecu's but still no good.

One of the workers at the shop checked the jumper harness and found one of the pins was broken. he fixed it but still it broke up.

i finally decide to disable VTEC and the car didnt break up at all. I then unplugged the VTEC solenoid signal wire and applied direct power with a probe to the solenoid while the car was on the dyno and it still broke up. it's only breaking up when VTEC comes on. i dont know what it could be.

Any of you have this problem? im out of ideas. Im gonna try a new jumper harness tomorrow.

steveludeh22

im not really a tuner but maybe try checking the oil pressure.. my n/a prelude kinda did the same thing when the oil pump was going out.. just a suggestion.. good luck.. or maybe the v-tech oil pressure switch screen is clogged.

top end tuner

are you sure that distributor was new? it could be the icm on the distributor. what kind of plugs are you using?

0xenocron

Are you using the VTP or is it disabled?

Def check oil pressure...and what cams are being used?

sewell94

Check the oil pressure on the front port on the head. Which turbo manifold?? Does it have bigger cams??? Sounds like it does. Could to be one of these rare issues, the valves springs have reached the limit, and it has coil bind issues. There is to much over lap for the type of manifold being used which is throwing the tune way off, check and see if your high cam map is actually using less fuel then your low cam map, or there is an issue with piston to valve clearance. I've seen all 3 cause breakup issues during vtec crossover.

boosted k20

i've tried with VTP enabled and disabled. i removed the vtec solenoid, put in a good working one, and cleaned out the old one. same problem.

The distributor i put in was brand new still in the box. (after i fixed the old dizzy by putting back the rotor screw, i tried it out and it still broke up) both dizzy's cause the car to break up as soon as VTEC opens.

Oil pressure is seeing 80psi at WOT. i didnt check the oil pressure by the head but VTEC is def. clicking on. i will test oil pressure on the port by the head.

the cams r stock GSR's. i dont think the springs have reached its limits cuz if i apply 12V to the vtec solenoid with a probe at any rpm (4K, 5K, etc) it breaks up as soon as VTEC comes on.

The turbo setup is a 60-1 on an inline pro manifold with 3" exhaust. edlebrok IM as well. JE 9-1 pistons.

fuel in low cam and high cam are in the mid to high 11's. i even tried two different programs one on crome gold and one on uberdata of cars i tuned on 750cc's before. both programs had the same break up issue.

Cam gears are set to 0. timing at idle is synced at 16*.

the plugs i am using are NGK part # 5820 which are heat range #10's. i've used these plugs on several high HP cars w/o any problems. This car should be seeing 400+ whp so im using these plugs. i'll see if i can throw in a set of 8's in there to see if that could be the problem but i doubt it.

open for anymore suggestions

markaria

hope this helps: quite some time ago I had a similar issue when getting into vtec and in boost and when I replaced (what looked to be perfectly fine) plug wires with new ones my problem went away.

good luck

boosted k20

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by markaria &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hope this helps: quite some time ago I had a similar issue when getting into vtec and in boost and when I replaced (what looked to be perfectly fine) plug wires with new ones my problem went away.

good luck</TD></TR></TABLE>


i did that, same results.

We're going to open the head up tonight to make sure we have GSR cams and not something else. even if the car did have some big all motor cams, the exhaust setup is more than sufficient to handle the extra flow.... well we gotta try something.

boosted k20

okay so the owner of the car didnt knwo what cams were in the car. one of the workers at the shop pulled the cams out and they measured it. they were not sure which cams they were, but they were definitly aftermarket cams. the lobes were bigger than standard VTEC (GSR, b16) cams. i know alot of cars that have run big allmotor cams in turbo setups with great results, but this was with ramhorn and topmount turbos. Im wondering if the inline pro manifold, which is somewhat a log manifold is restricting the flow, causing the breakup. We're gonna swap in some B16 or GSR cams in the motor now to see what the results are

0xenocron

Cheap chinese cams...out of spec on the VTEC lobe...seen it way too many times.

tony1

haha, seen that too. Customer brought a car in with "type r" cams. Ran like ****, i made him bring me the factory cams to put back in the car and he brought them back in a box that said XS Power on it. lol

tannerLSt

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">haha, seen that too. Customer brought a car in with "type r" cams. Ran like ****, i made him bring me the factory cams to put back in the car and he brought them back in a box that said XS Power on it. lol</TD></TR></TABLE>

xs power, sweet cams! i want some

MeanGreenMachine

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">haha, seen that too. Customer brought a car in with "type r" cams. Ran like ****, i made him bring me the factory cams to put back in the car and he brought them back in a box that said XS Power on it. lol</TD></TR></TABLE>

xs power/ssautochrome strikes again!

boosted k20

after work today i went over to the shop to check out the cams. it turns out that the car had a stock GSR exhaust cam and some kind of aftermarket intake cam. i believe this should solve the problems we've been getting. the "aftermarket" cam also was cracked. the end of the cam where the slot is for the dizzy goes was broken off. i will update tomorrow when we put in a stock GSR intake cam.

Joseph Davis

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xenocron &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Cheap chinese cams...out of spec on the VTEC lobe...seen it way too many times. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm wagering it's a cheap chinese distributor from DK. I've seen that many more times.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">haha, seen that too. Customer brought a car in with "type r" cams. Ran like ****, i made him bring me the factory cams to put back in the car and he brought them back in a box that said XS Power on it. lol</TD></TR></TABLE>

Gee, I dunno, Tony. That's an awful lot of labor to bill the customer for when you know those cams would have worn down and run fine after 50-60 miles... for another 50-60 miles.

boosted k20

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Joseph Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm wagering it's a cheap chinese distributor from DK. I've seen that many more times.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

the new dizzy we put in came from one of the local parts stores. i hate using those distributors, but we bought it just to test out. nothing beats oem honda

hopefully tonight i can dyno this car

0morgan@synapse motorsport

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted k20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
the plugs i am using are NGK part # 5820 which are heat range #10's. i've used these plugs on several high HP cars w/o any problems. This car should be seeing 400+ whp so im using these plugs. i'll see if i can throw in a set of 8's in there to see if that could be the problem but i doubt it.

open for anymore suggestions</TD></TR></TABLE>

heat range 10 plugs for 400whp? 7's are more than capable of making that and then another 100+whp.

good luck with the same swap hopefully that does the trick. its funny when everything is fine they are sure its gsr cams, but when something goes wrong and you ask what cams are in the car the story changes lol...

IntegraTypeR

iTrader: (1)

hopefully the problems you had are solved but incase its not i would check the oil level? and is your alternator charging? hows the condition of your battery? comp/leak test the engine?

boosted k20

Im gonna go to the shop later tonight to see if they finished the cam swap.

#10 plugs is a bit overkill. these plugs fould out so quick too. when they were in my car they fouled out every 3 months daily driving the car. i'll step it down to a 8 or a 9.

Compression test was 190 on cyl 1,2,4 and 180 on cyl 3. Battery voltage logged through crome showed 13.X voltage. charging/battery system is fine. Oil level is on point as well

its a problem w/ VTEC cuz it only breaks up when VTEC is engaged, no matter what rpm it engages. lets home the cam swap fixes the problem ::crosses fingers::

boosted k20

problem fixed! Replacing the unknown cam for GSR cams fixed the problem. car is running great now. i just got back from tuning it. Car made 360whp on 15 psi.

Thanks for all the help!

sewell94

IntegraTypeR

iTrader: (1)

cool thats good news