slowata

Hello

We currently have a customer car in that we're having a few issues with. The car in question is a 2000 Prelude with what seems to be a complete DRAG turbo kit (gen III I believe). It looks like it is running the BLOX missing link and FMU that are part of the kit, but it also had what seems to be a RRFPR installed. We bypassed the RRFPR for now and have an AFC NEO installed (per customer's wishes)

I read that basically, the missing link/FMU setup is garbage and full EMS would be the way to go, but it's not my car.

Now, I read that the missing link/FMU works *ok* with a stock ECU, but were it to have a chipped ECU that is now able to "understand" boost, the Missing Link will cause problems.

Sorry for the lengthy intro...my real question is, is there an easy way to tell if the ECU has been messed with? Socketed, chipped, or what not? Our shop specializes in Mitsubishis, so we're not completely familiar with the Honda ECU's.

The engine (H22 of course) has been sleeved/built to withstand any amount of boost we can throw at it...supposedly. From what I understand, the engine builder is confident that the engine will hold 45psi...we'll see about that

Cliff's notes: Need to know if there is an easy way to tell if an ECU has been chipped/otherwise messed with.

Turbocivic94

you can only chip jdm H22 ecu's.

slowata

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbocivic94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you can only chip jdm H22 ecu's.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, I have big doubts that this guy has a JDM ECU....his styling is..uhh...not exactly JDM

OK, but let's say that he does have a JDM ECU, how would I know if it's been chipped or not?

Also, is it possible to re-flash these ECU's?

SOHCD16y8

Take some pictures.

HybridKOOP

You'd see a socket with 28 pins on it, and probably a soldered in HC373 chip next to it.

You said it's a 2000 Prelude, so unless he has a harness conversion on there, the ECU is stock.

dpetro1

if the ecu is chipped then he wont be using a stock prelude ecu. he will probably have a p72 or p28. you can simply take the cover off the ecu and see if ts chipped. look on the side barcode to identify the ecu.



the chip should look something like this, in the bottom right corner. (thanks to j-k-tuning for the pic)

RC000E

This thread makes no sense.

You say the car is a 2000, and you don't mention that it's converted to OBD1, so in that case, no it's not chipped. The OBDII ecu's aren't chippable.

Just run the stock ecu, keep the missing link, and use the rising rate fpr (FMU). If he wants to run a more aggressive setup then he needs standalone capability, or to convert to OBD1 then get chipped.

ryan89crx

you have "customers" but cant tell whether an ecu is chipped or not??

borat

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RC000E &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This thread makes no sense.

You say the car is a 2000, and you don't mention that it's converted to OBD1, so in that case, no it's not chipped. The OBDII ecu's aren't chippable.

Just run the stock ecu, keep the missing link, and use the rising rate fpr (FMU). If he wants to run a more aggressive setup then he needs standalone capability, or to convert to OBD1 then get chipped.</TD></TR></TABLE>

5th gen Prelude ECU's are chippable, it's just not very practical. The chips cost like $40 each, and are only burnable once. People out there still do it though.

slowata

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ryan89crx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you have "customers" but cant tell whether an ecu is chipped or not??</TD></TR></TABLE>

Like I said. We're mainly a Mitsu shop. The main reason the car is here is to be dyno-tuned. I'm looking into reasons for why the car runs crappy.

Have been doing some more reading in the mean time, and add to that the (mostly) constructive comments to this thread, it looks like I've found all the answer I need. Hopefully we can get this guy to buy AEM EMS.

s300 would be great, but we've never dealt with Hondata.

RC000E

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by borat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

5th gen Prelude ECU's are chippable, it's just not very practical. The chips cost like $40 each, and are only burnable once. People out there still do it though.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've been chipping ecu's professionally for years, and I honestly have never heard that. You have some link or reference I can look at?

Why would it not be practical? So this is an OBDII, rechippable ecu....I just don't believe it. OBDII ecu's are all surface mount and use flash. If your referring to reflashing that's one thing...that's not rechipping.

The newer Prelude's are rare, so granted I never deal with them, but I'd imagine if they were, then other OBDII cars (civic's) would be taking advantage of this ability and remapping them.

Please give me a link or reference.

borat

There's all kinds of info on doing it on the pgmfi.org forums. Here's the link to the ODB-II section, you need to register if you don't already have an account.
http://forum.pgmfi.org/viewforum.php?f=9

Here's an article describing how to do it, unfortunately it's the google cache since the pgmfi.org wiki is still down:
http://209.85.165.104/search?q...fox-a


Here's an eBay auction selling one of the chips:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem

Here's an interesting adapter a guy made to allow the use of a regular 28-pin EPROM in an OBD-II socket:
http://www.autoserve.8m.com/OBD2Emu2.html
From what I remember, there wasn't enough interest to get it mass-produced, and the speed of the emulation caused some problems with accessing the ROM. It's too bad there isn't more interest in this area of tuning, I'd love to be able to use my stock ECU instead of one from an old civic .

RC000E

I've been trying to get to the pgmfi forums, but pgmfi has been offline for weeks. I've had an account for years.

Let me do some reading here.

EDIT: Yeah, I recall some of this, but I guess just due to lack of interest I never read or heard much about it.

EDIT 2: yeah, further reading I recall the programming issues that were found in identifying parts of the OBDII code...there's really no known programming option.

Tying into the thread here....like we said...not chippable in general terms. As you well know...your running OBD1 for a reason. There's no way this 2000 Prelude has a chipped ecu with some boost modified code.


Modified by RC000E at 11:06 AM 6/6/2007

slowata

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RC000E &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Tying into the thread here....like we said...not chippable in general terms. As you well know...your running OBD1 for a reason. There's no way this 2000 Prelude has a chipped ecu with some boost modified code.


Modified by RC000E at 11:06 AM 6/6/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>

OK, thank you very much for your response, and every one else's for that matter. There's no point in keeping the Missing Link/FMU on this car since the intentions of the owner are to go well beyond 10psi. Probably end up trying to sell him on AEM EMS or something similar.

spoolinegsr

convert to OBD1. chip a p28. tune on crome. get rid of the missing link and FMU.

do it once, do it right. if they are a paying customer, then i would not want to blow up their car. get rid of the FMU!

RC000E

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spoolinegsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">convert to OBD1. chip a p28. tune on crome. get rid of the missing link and FMU.

do it once, do it right. if they are a paying customer, then i would not want to blow up their car. get rid of the FMU!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, this is an agreeable statement. Unless this person is highly concerned with emmissions or something, then a convert to OBD1 and Crome combo is the way to go....plus it's cheap and user tunable.

FMU setups are good for low boost generally, you can also do injectors with an AFC, it's crude, but you can tune some alright power/boost levels with it to make it safe, but it won't be optimal.

Like I said before, standalone or obd1 is the way to go.

spoolinegsr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RC000E &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yeah, this is an agreeable statement. Unless this person is highly concerned with emmissions or something, then a convert to OBD1 and Crome combo is the way to go....plus it's cheap and user tunable.

FMU setups are good for low boost generally, you can also do injectors with an AFC, it's crude, but you can tune some alright power/boost levels with it to make it safe, but it won't be optimal.

Like I said before, standalone or obd1 is the way to go.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i would agree with this if it is being built and boosted in a garage by a first timer. i am a firm beleiver that if i take my car to a shop, i expect the HIGHEST quality of work and reliability. i would also expect them to make my car safe, and not cheap out on any parts.

because this car is in a shop, in my opinion (which isnt much at all) i think there is no excuse for not doing it right and sending him home with the fmu, old ecu and missing link in the passenger seat.

i used to have a turbo GSR, and it was tuned on an FMU/missing link/VAFC2. i took it to a shop, and they immediatly took off the fmu, the missing link, and zero'ed out the VAFC. he then chipped a p28, pulled out my p72, and went to town with crome. the car drove COMPLETLY different, and i was MUCH happier then i had ever been with it.

i guess i do not feel any shop would let a customer leave with a turbocharged honda running on a "trick" setup, as opposed to just doing a simple low boost tune for the time being.

dpetro1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RC000E &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You say the car is a 2000, and you don't mention that it's converted to OBD1, so in that case, no it's not chipped. The OBDII ecu's aren't chippable.</TD></TR></TABLE>

since these guys are mitsu guys they probably arent even looking for a conversion or anything. but i agree with you. it doesnt sound like the customer really knew what was up and if he is bringing it to be dyno tuned then they have to be putting some kind of ems on it.

Slowata mentioned AEM but i also doubt this kid is gonna drop the $$$ for that. im sure one of the shop's tuners could pick up on crome/uber pretty quickly.

chipped obd1 ecu, injectors and fuel pump FTW

slowata

The owner of the car has dropped a fair amount of money into it, actually. I look at it as more of a show car reminiscent of the late-90's, considering the flashy body kit, the multi-coloured bodykit including tribal, and the saweeet Motegi wheels.

If it were my car, I'd probably have bought Hondata. I don't think that this particular owner has done any of the work himself, and honestly doesn't seem to know what exactly his setup consists of. The reason that AEM seems like a possibility is because we sell it and several of our guys are "AEM factory trained"

The problem is that the owner doesn't really know what exactly he has, nor do I think that he really understands all of it. So we're kind of stuck with the setup as is. But that's not really my problem, I just built the 3" exhaust for him, I'll let my shop manager deal with persuading the owner to buy some real fuel management.

Thanks a lot guys!

agrn93ls

SOWATA:

in regards to your question can these computers be reflashed??

answer is no you have to pull the chip, socket it and burn a program on that chip and install it.

reflashing is only possible usually on domestics. like LS1 edit works basically.

besides you also have to add something to read boost etc.


i wouldnt risk your good name by trying to please the customer and accomplish his goals using a FMU or AFC it sounds like you are on the wright track already to convince him to get a standalone.

if he blows it you will be to blame regardless of the situation. i have had countless customers that do half *** **** and blame everyone and everything but themselves because they "have no idea what they have or how it works"


good luck convincing the kid to do it right.