How much power on a stock LS head/intake mani.......????
01-24-2005, 10:12 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Posts: 804
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How much power on a stock LS head/intake mani.......????
My question, how much power has anyone seen on a stock LS head and intake mani???
From the block up on my motor is all stock with the exception of cams...
Why I wonder is, I took my car to the dyno about a month ago, and made 302/281 on this same setup on 14.5 psi... Last night I was BACK at the dyno, on 16.5 psi with a little less fuel, and more timing... I was expecting to hit around 330-340whp, and right at 300tq, but to my disappointment, I only made 304whp, and the torque stayed about the same as the last time... although, it looks as if torque is falling off a little soon... so, Im wondering if something up top could be too restrictive, and not letting as much air in, as my turbo is putting out.... I dont think the throttle body would be much of a problem, And I am also confident the stock head can flow a little more, but the stock intake manifold could have a lot to do with it....
Any help would be appreciated, because Im pretty stumped here.....
From the block up on my motor is all stock with the exception of cams...
Why I wonder is, I took my car to the dyno about a month ago, and made 302/281 on this same setup on 14.5 psi... Last night I was BACK at the dyno, on 16.5 psi with a little less fuel, and more timing... I was expecting to hit around 330-340whp, and right at 300tq, but to my disappointment, I only made 304whp, and the torque stayed about the same as the last time... although, it looks as if torque is falling off a little soon... so, Im wondering if something up top could be too restrictive, and not letting as much air in, as my turbo is putting out.... I dont think the throttle body would be much of a problem, And I am also confident the stock head can flow a little more, but the stock intake manifold could have a lot to do with it....
Any help would be appreciated, because Im pretty stumped here.....
01-25-2005, 04:28 AM
#4
Re: (Teglove2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Teglove2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well...cosidering I don't know you're setup I would say it sounds like your turbo is quitting cuz it should have made more power</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Turning up the boost should overcome the restrictions of the head/IM. What size turbo are you running?
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Turning up the boost should overcome the restrictions of the head/IM. What size turbo are you running?
01-25-2005, 05:53 AM
#6
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Posts: 804
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its definitely not the turbo... The turbo I have is a Precision SC61S, .63a/r T350 76 trim turbine, and of course the sc61 compressor wheel with an S cover...
My car is only tuned to the boost I am at, so I couldnt really turn it up more... I would like to tune it for higher boost before this weekend so I can get it back to the dyno and see whats really going on....
My car is only tuned to the boost I am at, so I couldnt really turn it up more... I would like to tune it for higher boost before this weekend so I can get it back to the dyno and see whats really going on....
Trending Topics
01-25-2005, 06:05 AM
#10
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Posts: 804
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: How much power on a stock LS head/intake mani.......???? (VTC_ohgodnotagain_CiViC)
yes, we made a few small changes because my air fuel was dipping into the tens... no changes were made to timing really, just fuel... Biggest change was removing the air filter... that alone yielded 6whp lol
01-25-2005, 06:07 AM
#11
Honda-Tech Member
Re: How much power on a stock LS head/intake mani.......???? (BoostedCivicSedan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostedCivicSedan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes, we made a few small changes because my air fuel was dipping into the tens... no changes were made to timing really, just fuel... Biggest change was removing the air filter... that alone yielded 6whp lol</TD></TR></TABLE>
So you tuned it to 302whp @ 14.5psi, bumped it 2psi in the same session and only gained 2whp.. is that correct?
So you tuned it to 302whp @ 14.5psi, bumped it 2psi in the same session and only gained 2whp.. is that correct?
01-25-2005, 06:49 AM
#12
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Posts: 804
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: How much power on a stock LS head/intake mani.......???? (VTC_ohgodnotagain_CiViC)
No, I made 302/281 on 14.5psi with a 10.6:1 a/f ratio and pretty conservative timing... Since then I got the a/f ratio to around 11.6:1 (tuned to 15psi) , and added 1.5 degrees timing all the way accross... The boost was turned up AFTER those changes were made.... All we did on the dyno was adjust the air fuel a little for the higher boost, and because for some reason (possibly the change in weather) air fuel was back in the tens where it was 11.6:1 before... The car is tuned perfectly up to the boost its at now, but I will be doing some street tuning for more boost this week, before going back to the dyno this weekend to find out what the deal is...
I still have this funny feeling the dyno is inaccurate... When I got there, I was spinning til about mid third on street tires... After these few changes were made, I was spinning completely through 4th effortlessly... And that was with the air filter back on!!!! (not a ricer excuse, we did notice a 6 whp difference by taking the filter off on the dyno)
I still have this funny feeling the dyno is inaccurate... When I got there, I was spinning til about mid third on street tires... After these few changes were made, I was spinning completely through 4th effortlessly... And that was with the air filter back on!!!! (not a ricer excuse, we did notice a 6 whp difference by taking the filter off on the dyno)
01-25-2005, 06:57 AM
#13
Honda-Tech Member
Re: How much power on a stock LS head/intake mani.......???? (BoostedCivicSedan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostedCivicSedan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No, I made 302/281 on 14.5psi with a 10.6:1 a/f ratio and pretty conservative timing... Since then I got the a/f ratio to around 11.6:1 (tuned to 15psi) , and added 1.5 degrees timing all the way accross... The boost was turned up AFTER those changes were made.... All we did on the dyno was adjust the air fuel a little for the higher boost, and because for some reason (possibly the change in weather) air fuel was back in the tens where it was 11.6:1 before... The car is tuned perfectly up to the boost its at now, but I will be doing some street tuning for more boost this week, before going back to the dyno this weekend to find out what the deal is... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok so this wasn't the same session.. that's what I was getting at. All the changes you made off the dyno really should've been made while you still had the car strapped so you could see the differences right off the bat without having to guess whether or no thing like temp, humidity etc.. are playing a role. With regards to the A/F's, every car I've run on a dyno with my wideband on goes rich vs. the street, I guess it's just natural to the dyno, but many times I'll roll into a place with a perfect 12.0 A/F line and after 1 pull i'm running low 11's or high 10's, so that's not unusual. I just make my adjustments to get it back to the target keeping in mind I'll need to re-verify it on the street after the dyno session. I say you go back to your old settings, timing and all, and make your adjustments while on the dyno this time instead of arbirtarily bumping timing here and there so you can see where you are or aren't making gains, just an idea.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I still have this funny feeling the dyno is inaccurate... When I got there, I was spinning til about mid third on street tires... After these few changes were made, I was spinning completely through 4th effortlessly... And that was with the air filter back on!!!! (not a ricer excuse, we did notice a 6 whp difference by taking the filter off on the dyno)</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's pretty weird.. my friend's LS made 304/270 and never spun his cheapy street tires in 4th on the rollers. Sure the car is strapped down good-n-tight? Go back with some DR's or lower the tire pressire a touch and try again
Ok so this wasn't the same session.. that's what I was getting at. All the changes you made off the dyno really should've been made while you still had the car strapped so you could see the differences right off the bat without having to guess whether or no thing like temp, humidity etc.. are playing a role. With regards to the A/F's, every car I've run on a dyno with my wideband on goes rich vs. the street, I guess it's just natural to the dyno, but many times I'll roll into a place with a perfect 12.0 A/F line and after 1 pull i'm running low 11's or high 10's, so that's not unusual. I just make my adjustments to get it back to the target keeping in mind I'll need to re-verify it on the street after the dyno session. I say you go back to your old settings, timing and all, and make your adjustments while on the dyno this time instead of arbirtarily bumping timing here and there so you can see where you are or aren't making gains, just an idea.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I still have this funny feeling the dyno is inaccurate... When I got there, I was spinning til about mid third on street tires... After these few changes were made, I was spinning completely through 4th effortlessly... And that was with the air filter back on!!!! (not a ricer excuse, we did notice a 6 whp difference by taking the filter off on the dyno)</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's pretty weird.. my friend's LS made 304/270 and never spun his cheapy street tires in 4th on the rollers. Sure the car is strapped down good-n-tight? Go back with some DR's or lower the tire pressire a touch and try again
01-25-2005, 07:02 AM
#14
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Posts: 804
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: How much power on a stock LS head/intake mani.......???? (VTC_ohgodnotagain_CiViC)
nah man lol, wasnt spinning on the dyno... it was on the street on the way home lol...
Well, all I can say is for now my dyno charts look ok, and the airfuel is perfect... All I can do is datalog with a wideband and do some street tuning for a little more boost, then go back for more dyno time and fine tuning....
Well, all I can say is for now my dyno charts look ok, and the airfuel is perfect... All I can do is datalog with a wideband and do some street tuning for a little more boost, then go back for more dyno time and fine tuning....
01-25-2005, 07:05 AM
#15
Honda-Tech Member
Re: How much power on a stock LS head/intake mani.......???? (BoostedCivicSedan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostedCivicSedan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">nah man lol, wasnt spinning on the dyno... it was on the street on the way home lol...
Well, all I can say is for now my dyno charts look ok, and the airfuel is perfect... All I can do is datalog with a wideband and do some street tuning for a little more boost, then go back for more dyno time and fine tuning....</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ahhh ok You can always turn the boost back to 14.5psi and see what happens. If your output drops from last time, you know either it was the outside conditions or something esle resulting in lack of power and not neccesarily the dyno.
Well, all I can say is for now my dyno charts look ok, and the airfuel is perfect... All I can do is datalog with a wideband and do some street tuning for a little more boost, then go back for more dyno time and fine tuning....</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ahhh ok
You can always turn the boost back to 14.5psi and see what happens. If your output drops from last time, you know either it was the outside conditions or something esle resulting in lack of power and not neccesarily the dyno.
01-25-2005, 07:09 AM
#16
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Posts: 804
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: How much power on a stock LS head/intake mani.......???? (VTC_ohgodnotagain_CiViC)
I wouldve done alot of things, but sadly this was just a dyno day where I was limited to 3 runs........ I just made the few changes I could between pulls, and had to live with the end result...
01-26-2005, 10:00 AM
#18
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Destroying turbo ITR motors in Minneapolis, MN, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: How much power on a stock LS head/intake mani.......???? (BoostedCivicSedan)
buddy of mine locally made 417whp/409tq on a built LS block with stock LS head.
01-26-2005, 10:04 AM
#20
Honda-Tech Member
Re: How much power on a stock LS head/intake mani.......???? (boostincoupe)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostincoupe »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">buddy of mine locally made 417whp/409tq on a built LS block with stock LS head. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Wow, very nice for a straight LS
Any insight on the setup??
</TD></TR></TABLE> Wow, very nice for a straight LS Any insight on the setup??
01-26-2005, 10:07 AM
#21
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Destroying turbo ITR motors in Minneapolis, MN, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: How much power on a stock LS head/intake mani.......???? (VTC_ohgodnotagain_CiViC)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTC_ohgodnotagain_CiViC »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Wow, very nice for a straight LS
Any insight on the setup??</TD></TR></TABLE>
MY BAD, HE'S RUNNING A VICTOR X INTAKE MANI so it's not a straight LS, per se.
bottom end:
Wiseco pistons (8.5:1)
eagle rods
polished crank
golden eagle sleeves
Cometic head gasket
Balnced
25,000 miles on bottom end
Fuel management: Hondata S100
GM 3bar map sensor
RC660's
Random Tech 3" stainless cat back exhaust (ONLY 2 MADE EVER, 3yr warranty)
Test Pipe
ACT 2600 6 puck clutch
B&M adjustable fuel pressure regulator
B&M fuel pressure gauge (filter mounted)
AEM high flow fuel Rail
AEM under-drive pulley (PS)
Taylor 409 race wires 10.4MM
Victor X intake manifold]
Hondata heat shield gasket
Tokiko blue shocks
Turbonetics T3/T4S 60-1 Turbo (polished)
DRAG exhaust manifold (ported)
Tial wastegate
HKS SSQ BOV
Elite manual boost controller
Gator Racing axles (450hp capable, custom made)
Auto Meter Shift Light (6k and 7k pills included)
Auto Meter EGT Gauge (phantom white)
Auto Meter boost gauge (phantom white)
Auto meter oil pressure gauge (phantom, needs new sender)
Auto meter a/f gauge (phantom white)
Auto Meter Pillar pods (all four on driver pillar)
Walbro 255 in tank fuel pump
Streamline Radiator Fans
Precision Trubo and Engine 750HP cast endtank intercooler
2.5" piping
K&N Intake Air filter (4" intake and filter)
new setup (built head, no #'s yet):
Head:
Crane turbo cams
Web cams dual valve springs
titanium retainers
stainless seats
SI .5mm oversized swirl polish valves
street port job
Skunk 2 cam gears
3500 miles on new head
Needs a tranny and dyno time, good for 500whp now
It's for sale, $11k takes it all (with a brand new SC61, ported shroud, and other stuff). Just needs a tranny.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=931366
Wow, very nice for a straight LS Any insight on the setup??</TD></TR></TABLE>
MY BAD, HE'S RUNNING A VICTOR X INTAKE MANI so it's not a straight LS, per se.
bottom end:
Wiseco pistons (8.5:1)
eagle rods
polished crank
golden eagle sleeves
Cometic head gasket
Balnced
25,000 miles on bottom end
Fuel management: Hondata S100
GM 3bar map sensor
RC660's
Random Tech 3" stainless cat back exhaust (ONLY 2 MADE EVER, 3yr warranty)
Test Pipe
ACT 2600 6 puck clutch
B&M adjustable fuel pressure regulator
B&M fuel pressure gauge (filter mounted)
AEM high flow fuel Rail
AEM under-drive pulley (PS)
Taylor 409 race wires 10.4MM
Victor X intake manifold]
Hondata heat shield gasket
Tokiko blue shocks
Turbonetics T3/T4S 60-1 Turbo (polished)
DRAG exhaust manifold (ported)
Tial wastegate
HKS SSQ BOV
Elite manual boost controller
Gator Racing axles (450hp capable, custom made)
Auto Meter Shift Light (6k and 7k pills included)
Auto Meter EGT Gauge (phantom white)
Auto Meter boost gauge (phantom white)
Auto meter oil pressure gauge (phantom, needs new sender)
Auto meter a/f gauge (phantom white)
Auto Meter Pillar pods (all four on driver pillar)
Walbro 255 in tank fuel pump
Streamline Radiator Fans
Precision Trubo and Engine 750HP cast endtank intercooler
2.5" piping
K&N Intake Air filter (4" intake and filter)
new setup (built head, no #'s yet):
Head:
Crane turbo cams
Web cams dual valve springs
titanium retainers
stainless seats
SI .5mm oversized swirl polish valves
street port job
Skunk 2 cam gears
3500 miles on new head
Needs a tranny and dyno time, good for 500whp now
It's for sale, $11k takes it all (with a brand new SC61, ported shroud, and other stuff). Just needs a tranny.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=931366
01-26-2005, 10:11 AM
#22
Honda-Tech Member
Re: How much power on a stock LS head/intake mani.......???? (boostincoupe)
Dayum! Very nice, I'd like to see more people push their LS's. I've got one in the GSR right now while the B18C is rebuilt, I'm thiking of strapping the turbo kit on it and seeing what I can squeeze out of it on pump..
01-26-2005, 10:13 AM
#23
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Destroying turbo ITR motors in Minneapolis, MN, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: How much power on a stock LS head/intake mani.......???? (VTC_ohgodnotagain_CiViC)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTC_ohgodnotagain_CiViC »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dayum! Very nice, I'd like to see more people push their LS's. I've got one in the GSR right now while the B18C is rebuilt, I'm thiking of strapping the turbo kit on it and seeing what I can squeeze out of it on pump.. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Careful Dave, you might blow a 3rd motor
P.S.: The ghey red Greddy turbo D16Y8 EX coupe is still alive and kicking after 23k miles
Careful Dave, you might blow a 3rd motor
P.S.: The ghey red Greddy turbo D16Y8 EX coupe is still alive and kicking after 23k miles
01-26-2005, 10:16 AM
#24
Honda-Tech Member
Re: How much power on a stock LS head/intake mani.......???? (boostincoupe)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostincoupe »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Careful Dave, you might blow a 3rd motor
P.S.: The ghey red Greddy turbo D16Y8 EX coupe is still alive and kicking after 23k miles</TD></TR></TABLE>
That was low bish.. What red GReddy turbo EX? Mine is still running hard at 150k miles
Besides, it's an LS, I just wanna see what it'll hold *evil grin*
Careful Dave, you might blow a 3rd motor
P.S.: The ghey red Greddy turbo D16Y8 EX coupe is still alive and kicking after 23k miles
</TD></TR></TABLE> That was low bish.. What red GReddy turbo EX? Mine is still running hard at 150k miles
Besides, it's an LS, I just wanna see what it'll hold *evil grin*
01-26-2005, 10:31 AM
#25
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Posts: 804
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: How much power on a stock LS head/intake mani.......???? (VTC_ohgodnotagain_CiViC)
I picked up another stock intake mani... I think its time for some porting, and a bigger TB
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post