How much boost and how high could we rev on this setup?
01-22-2005, 06:29 PM
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How much boost and how high could we rev on this setup?
My friend and I are planning on building the following setup.. How much boost could the stock cylinder walls handle?
1995 Integra LS
SS Valves, Springs, Ti Retainers
Stock Cams
Arias 9:1 Pistons .10 Over
Civic Type-R Rods
GSR Crank with all new bearings
Copper Head Gasket
We'll be using hondata to tune it.
1995 Integra LS
SS Valves, Springs, Ti Retainers
Stock Cams
Arias 9:1 Pistons .10 Over
Civic Type-R Rods
GSR Crank with all new bearings
Copper Head Gasket
We'll be using hondata to tune it.
01-22-2005, 06:39 PM
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Re: How much boost and how high could we rev on this setup? (H-T)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H-T »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Intresting????</TD></TR></TABLE>
exactly.. what a great response... not to much better than mine.. remember..its not how much boost can stock sleeves handle, its how much power..
exactly.. what a great response... not to much better than mine.. remember..its not how much boost can stock sleeves handle, its how much power..
01-22-2005, 06:46 PM
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Re: How much boost and how high could we rev on this setup? (bboyoxygen)
Why pull the block just to swap in CTR rods? Such a waste.
I seriously doubt b1 cams make any power past the stock redline, so I wouldn't use them.
You could probably make 400 on the stock sleeves, I doubt it would last long though.
I seriously doubt b1 cams make any power past the stock redline, so I wouldn't use them.
You could probably make 400 on the stock sleeves, I doubt it would last long though.
01-22-2005, 07:07 PM
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Re: How much boost and how high could we rev on this setup? (eli_vang)
"remember..its not how much boost can stock sleeves handle, its how much power.."
sorry Eli but you are wrong on this one.. the stock sleeves are used to a relatively high compression and can handle high compression fine but when you add high boost levels and air is being forced faster into the chamber, that is more dangerous for the stock sleeves and that is when you have the biggest chance of breaking them. It is much safer for the sleeves to see 13 or 14 lbs to get to 400 whp then for it to take 17 lbs to do it. I have been doing a lot of research on this topic recently.
Good luck though, and let us know how it turns out. My set up is going to be similar to yours when i get it together, but hopefully i will be able to get it sleeved. Make SURE you have a good tune, my friend cracked two cylinder walls with about 405 whp.
sorry Eli but you are wrong on this one.. the stock sleeves are used to a relatively high compression and can handle high compression fine but when you add high boost levels and air is being forced faster into the chamber, that is more dangerous for the stock sleeves and that is when you have the biggest chance of breaking them. It is much safer for the sleeves to see 13 or 14 lbs to get to 400 whp then for it to take 17 lbs to do it. I have been doing a lot of research on this topic recently.
Good luck though, and let us know how it turns out. My set up is going to be similar to yours when i get it together, but hopefully i will be able to get it sleeved. Make SURE you have a good tune, my friend cracked two cylinder walls with about 405 whp.
01-22-2005, 07:07 PM
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Re: How much boost and how high could we rev on this setup? (MooreBoost)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MooreBoost »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why pull the block just to swap in CTR rods? Such a waste.
I seriously doubt b1 cams make any power past the stock redline, so I wouldn't use them.
You could probably make 400 on the stock sleeves, I doubt it would last long though.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I ran 380 WHP daily on stock sleeves for about 6 months, and just recently moved upto a bigger turbo and over 420 on stock sleeves for almost a month, still driving it every single day on pump gas, but if you'd like to elaborate on your thoughts that stock sleeves won't last over 400 WHP, I'd love to hear them.
With no headwork and stock cams, be prepared for torque to start falling off rapidly past 6000. No sense trying to rev it to the moon if you arn't making power there.
I seriously doubt b1 cams make any power past the stock redline, so I wouldn't use them.
You could probably make 400 on the stock sleeves, I doubt it would last long though.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I ran 380 WHP daily on stock sleeves for about 6 months, and just recently moved upto a bigger turbo and over 420 on stock sleeves for almost a month, still driving it every single day on pump gas, but if you'd like to elaborate on your thoughts that stock sleeves won't last over 400 WHP, I'd love to hear them.
With no headwork and stock cams, be prepared for torque to start falling off rapidly past 6000. No sense trying to rev it to the moon if you arn't making power there.
01-22-2005, 07:16 PM
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Re: How much boost and how high could we rev on this setup? (RaNMaN)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RaNMaN »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"remember..its not how much boost can stock sleeves handle, its how much power.."
sorry Eli but you are wrong on this one.. the stock sleeves are used to a relatively high compression and can handle high compression fine but when you add high boost levels and air is being forced faster into the chamber, that is more dangerous for the stock sleeves and that is when you have the biggest chance of breaking them. It is much safer for the sleeves to see 13 or 14 lbs to get to 400 whp then for it to take 17 lbs to do it. I have been doing a lot of research on this topic recently.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Incorrect RaNMan.. Eli is correct, its not how much boost, it is how much power can sleeves handle.. the only reason it would be safer to run 13 lbs rather than 17 lbs of boost to get to 400whp boost is if the 17 pounds is out of the turbo's efficiency range, therefore heating up the IAT's which is increasing your chances of detonation..
And another thing, detonation from a NA car can actually cause just as high or even higher cylinder pressures than that of a boosted car.. so be sure to get a good tune..
But to answer your question.. stock cylinder walls can actually handle quite a bit of power.. there are plenty of people making well over 400whp on stock LS sleeves.. if anything, i'd be more worried about the rods.. so for your setup with honda rods i wouldnt go past 325 whp on pump gas.. plenty of people have made more but i personally wouldnt go past the 325 whp mark.. i'd just wait and save up another 400 dollars and get a set up Eagle rods.. good luck
Modified by IntegracinGSR at 4:27 AM 1/23/2005
sorry Eli but you are wrong on this one.. the stock sleeves are used to a relatively high compression and can handle high compression fine but when you add high boost levels and air is being forced faster into the chamber, that is more dangerous for the stock sleeves and that is when you have the biggest chance of breaking them. It is much safer for the sleeves to see 13 or 14 lbs to get to 400 whp then for it to take 17 lbs to do it. I have been doing a lot of research on this topic recently.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Incorrect RaNMan.. Eli is correct, its not how much boost, it is how much power can sleeves handle.. the only reason it would be safer to run 13 lbs rather than 17 lbs of boost to get to 400whp boost is if the 17 pounds is out of the turbo's efficiency range, therefore heating up the IAT's which is increasing your chances of detonation..
And another thing, detonation from a NA car can actually cause just as high or even higher cylinder pressures than that of a boosted car.. so be sure to get a good tune..
But to answer your question.. stock cylinder walls can actually handle quite a bit of power.. there are plenty of people making well over 400whp on stock LS sleeves.. if anything, i'd be more worried about the rods.. so for your setup with honda rods i wouldnt go past 325 whp on pump gas.. plenty of people have made more but i personally wouldnt go past the 325 whp mark.. i'd just wait and save up another 400 dollars and get a set up Eagle rods.. good luck
Modified by IntegracinGSR at 4:27 AM 1/23/2005
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01-22-2005, 08:37 PM
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Re: How much boost and how high could we rev on this setup? (IntegracinGSR)
I agree with IntegracinGSR and Eli,
It's not the amount of boost that cracks sleeves it's how much power you are making (assuming you aren't detonating). When you are talking about boost, you're just talking about compressed air. Compressed air from a turbo entering the cylinders by itself obviously cant crack a sleeve, even if it is "fast moving", but once you ignite it (without detonating it) on the <u>power</u> stroke that's when you have the potential for cracking a sleeve (once again, assuming you do not detonate). Now if the cylinder pressures are way too high then you'll bust a sleeve, and like Integracin said this can also happen when you are NA and you detonate. And of course HP is what we use to measure the amount of power being generated on the power stroke.
The cylinders can handle the incoming compressed air coming from the turbo fine...but handling the rapid pressure buildup as a result of a controlled ignition is a different story.
or something like that
It's not the amount of boost that cracks sleeves it's how much power you are making (assuming you aren't detonating). When you are talking about boost, you're just talking about compressed air. Compressed air from a turbo entering the cylinders by itself obviously cant crack a sleeve, even if it is "fast moving", but once you ignite it (without detonating it) on the <u>power</u> stroke that's when you have the potential for cracking a sleeve (once again, assuming you do not detonate). Now if the cylinder pressures are way too high then you'll bust a sleeve, and like Integracin said this can also happen when you are NA and you detonate. And of course HP is what we use to measure the amount of power being generated on the power stroke.
The cylinders can handle the incoming compressed air coming from the turbo fine...but handling the rapid pressure buildup as a result of a controlled ignition is a different story.
or something like that
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