highest pump gas numbers?
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
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Re: (sp00led)
https://honda-tech.com/zero...age=1
People are making a big stink over 635whp on a 1.93L motor, but no flak at all over 557whp on a 1.6L motor?
People are making a big stink over 635whp on a 1.93L motor, but no flak at all over 557whp on a 1.6L motor?
Shooting Star
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: The Lou, MO, US
Re: (onefstek)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by onefstek »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ask and you shall recieve
couple of pics of the plugs.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
my plugs looked like that after i pulled them on my h22...if you made that power on 92 congrats for sure...gives me hope.
couple of pics of the plugs.
</TD></TR></TABLE>my plugs looked like that after i pulled them on my h22...if you made that power on 92 congrats for sure...gives me hope.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,925
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From: Auburn, WA, United States
Lol.. I really dont understand why no one believes you made this on pump gas stefan.
Yes, there could be a chance that it is detonating. but the power was still made on PUMP gas.
Yes, there could be a chance that it is detonating. but the power was still made on PUMP gas.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,814
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From: Dallas, TX, USA
Re: (Blind-Fashion)
Most of us are smart enough to stop when it starts detonating, not turn the boost up more...
Making big numbers is only a small part of a successful tune. Keeping the motor together is a much bigger achievement. So realistically, how often does it see this power on "pump" gas?
Making big numbers is only a small part of a successful tune. Keeping the motor together is a much bigger achievement. So realistically, how often does it see this power on "pump" gas?
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,440
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From: Richmond, Va, usa
Re: (Blind-Fashion)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blind-Fashion »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Lol.. I really dont understand why no one believes you made this on pump gas stefan.
Yes, there could be a chance that it is detonating. but the power was still made on PUMP gas.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Haha thats a good attitude. The fact that detonation is occuring isn't bad or anything
Yes, there could be a chance that it is detonating. but the power was still made on PUMP gas.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Haha thats a good attitude. The fact that detonation is occuring isn't bad or anything
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Auburn, wa, usa
Re: (tony1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Most of us are smart enough to stop when it starts detonating, not turn the boost up more...
Making big numbers is only a small part of a successful tune. Keeping the motor together is a much bigger achievement. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Like I said earlier, the motor was not detodating, pinging or anything. You guys fail to understand, that I care about this motor. I built it with my own hands and savings. And I don't want anything to happen to it, so if there was any type of detonations/pinging, belive me I wold have stoped way way earlyer.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So realistically, how often does it see this power on "pump" gas?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I drive this car every day, might not see 2 bar boost every day, but I have raced plenty of other cars, street bikes on the freeway and not lost once. And yes I only pump gas at the local 76 station on the corner by my house. Hmm..... I think I still have the reciepts somewhere, would you like to see them. lol
Making big numbers is only a small part of a successful tune. Keeping the motor together is a much bigger achievement. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Like I said earlier, the motor was not detodating, pinging or anything. You guys fail to understand, that I care about this motor. I built it with my own hands and savings. And I don't want anything to happen to it, so if there was any type of detonations/pinging, belive me I wold have stoped way way earlyer.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So realistically, how often does it see this power on "pump" gas?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I drive this car every day, might not see 2 bar boost every day, but I have raced plenty of other cars, street bikes on the freeway and not lost once. And yes I only pump gas at the local 76 station on the corner by my house. Hmm..... I think I still have the reciepts somewhere, would you like to see them. lol
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 182
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From: Somewhere, FL
Re: (onefstek)
Has anyone considered the idea that those endyn pistons may be part of the solution? Larry was claiming a while back that his pistons have so much quench area that when he sent them to honeywell (I think that was the company), they COULDNT get them to detonate, IE, they reached zero quench (valves hit the pistons) before they started to detonate...
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,184
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From: Free bullets if you find me sucka, Washington
Re: (onefstek)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by onefstek »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I drive this car every day, might not see 2 bar boost every day, but I have raced plenty of other cars, street bikes on the freeway and not lost once. And yes I only pump gas at the local 76 station on the corner by my house. Hmm..... I think I still have the reciepts somewhere, would you like to see them. lol </TD></TR></TABLE>
No I don't want to see the reciepts just congratulate you on those numbers...now only if I could lose 100-150 pounds so we could go for a ride
And for all the NON belivers Stef is telling the truth those numbers were made on 92 octane gas..
can't wait to see the numbers on race gas...................
I drive this car every day, might not see 2 bar boost every day, but I have raced plenty of other cars, street bikes on the freeway and not lost once. And yes I only pump gas at the local 76 station on the corner by my house. Hmm..... I think I still have the reciepts somewhere, would you like to see them. lol
</TD></TR></TABLE>No I don't want to see the reciepts just congratulate you on those numbers...now only if I could lose 100-150 pounds so we could go for a ride
And for all the NON belivers Stef is telling the truth those numbers were made on 92 octane gas..can't wait to see the numbers on race gas...................
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,131
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From: tx, USA
Re: (cobra2326)
I'm with you. I think their stuff is a good part of the equasion here. If they wre any other maker pistons I woudl not agree but I know endyn and they designed they stuff to be the best in the world, maybe this is a good example of how good they are?
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Joined: Sep 2002
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From: ME
Re: (cobra2326)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cobra2326 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Has anyone considered the idea that those endyn pistons may be part of the solution? Larry was claiming a while back that his pistons have so much quench area that when he sent them to honeywell (I think that was the company), they COULDNT get them to detonate, IE, they reached zero quench (valves hit the pistons) before they started to detonate...</TD></TR></TABLE>
piston design definitely has a lot to do with knock resistance but you have a few things mixed up.
piston design definitely has a lot to do with knock resistance but you have a few things mixed up.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,519
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From: Auburn, wa, usa
Re: (boostedK20a2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostedK20a2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">where can i get info of these Endyn pistons? cant seem to find their website....</TD></TR></TABLE>
http://www.theoldone.com
http://www.theoldone.com
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Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Louisville, KY, US
Re: (Blind-Fashion)
i've had the Endyn pistons, Tony has tuned a few cars with them I assume, hell I know Art had them in his engine at one point in time. While they are nice, they are really just tweaked wiseco shelf pistons, i wouldn't say that they allow over 150whp on 92 octane.
I don't see 28psi on pump gas with 9:1 compression, post up a pic of your compression numbers. Plus those plugs are jsut showing us idle fuel level, which isn't going to show that much.
i still say its bullshit, i'm sure the car is nice and pulls very nice, but you can't run that kind of power on these engines with water gas unless you have some additive.
I don't see 28psi on pump gas with 9:1 compression, post up a pic of your compression numbers. Plus those plugs are jsut showing us idle fuel level, which isn't going to show that much.
i still say its bullshit, i'm sure the car is nice and pulls very nice, but you can't run that kind of power on these engines with water gas unless you have some additive.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Somewhere, FL
Re: (Bailhatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bailhatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">piston design definitely has a lot to do with knock resistance but you have a few things mixed up.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by endyn website »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Roller-Wave forced induction pistons incorporate full stepped-quench pads to maximize (mechanical octane)</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by endyn website »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The tables that are available are valid because the tests were deemed valid. We've constructed VCR engines for the Livermore Labs, Sandia, and the Ethyl Corp. and they all work the same way. While the engine is under test load, the cylinder with the head attached is mechanically moved closer and closer to the piston, and when the volume is small enough you'll get detonation. Now, it's reasonably common knowledge that for "some reason" some engines can run more compression than others, with the same octane gas.
All we've done is research all the various attempts from all over the world, and we've used things that looked promising from this and that, and combined with a great deal of stubborn dedication we succeeded in integrating many of these ideas into a mix that works remarkably well. I didn't start all this to prove thermal laws wrong, I simply saw some things that didn't work for certain applications, and looked close enough to see that certain things did work, and if I could make some of this work on racing engines, perhaps we could eliminate some detonation and for road racing, Indy, aircraft (the Voyager), and NASCAR, a small mileage improvement could be the difference between a pit stop and winning, or landing the airplane in the ocean. Had anyone told me that we'd be doing what we're currently doing 20 years ago, I'd have said the same thing that people have been saying about me for a very long time , "bullshit, he's crazy", I also have a lot of customers that are crazy now too.
On the subject of crazy, at the end of the VCR program with Livermore, I sent them another single cylinder VCR engine with something other than a generic chamber and piston configuration. I called them a couple of weeks later to see if they'd tested it. The answer was yes, and they'd lowered the cylinder enough for piston / chamber contact (maximum quench!) and could not induce detonation regardless of octane (within reason). They were now in the process of digitizing the shapes so they could allow their Cray computer tell them why.
So the best I can say is that someday, the stuff we're doing will be main stream, and everything will be done this way because it's safe, until then, experimentation can be very expensive, and the IRS doesn't allow you to deduct costs of "development", that's all your's out of profit. </TD></TR></TABLE>
original link: http://www.theoldone.com/archive/quench-area.htm
so:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by endyn website »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When properly designed, the quench areas can have a tremendous effect on the quality of combustion, and allow higher compression ratios, and due to this they are considered "artificial octane" by scientific types.
Bottom line is "properly designed, quench is good". </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by endyn website »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Roller-Wave forced induction pistons incorporate full stepped-quench pads to maximize (mechanical octane)</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by endyn website »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The tables that are available are valid because the tests were deemed valid. We've constructed VCR engines for the Livermore Labs, Sandia, and the Ethyl Corp. and they all work the same way. While the engine is under test load, the cylinder with the head attached is mechanically moved closer and closer to the piston, and when the volume is small enough you'll get detonation. Now, it's reasonably common knowledge that for "some reason" some engines can run more compression than others, with the same octane gas.
All we've done is research all the various attempts from all over the world, and we've used things that looked promising from this and that, and combined with a great deal of stubborn dedication we succeeded in integrating many of these ideas into a mix that works remarkably well. I didn't start all this to prove thermal laws wrong, I simply saw some things that didn't work for certain applications, and looked close enough to see that certain things did work, and if I could make some of this work on racing engines, perhaps we could eliminate some detonation and for road racing, Indy, aircraft (the Voyager), and NASCAR, a small mileage improvement could be the difference between a pit stop and winning, or landing the airplane in the ocean. Had anyone told me that we'd be doing what we're currently doing 20 years ago, I'd have said the same thing that people have been saying about me for a very long time , "bullshit, he's crazy", I also have a lot of customers that are crazy now too.
On the subject of crazy, at the end of the VCR program with Livermore, I sent them another single cylinder VCR engine with something other than a generic chamber and piston configuration. I called them a couple of weeks later to see if they'd tested it. The answer was yes, and they'd lowered the cylinder enough for piston / chamber contact (maximum quench!) and could not induce detonation regardless of octane (within reason). They were now in the process of digitizing the shapes so they could allow their Cray computer tell them why.
So the best I can say is that someday, the stuff we're doing will be main stream, and everything will be done this way because it's safe, until then, experimentation can be very expensive, and the IRS doesn't allow you to deduct costs of "development", that's all your's out of profit. </TD></TR></TABLE>
original link: http://www.theoldone.com/archive/quench-area.htm
so:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by endyn website »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When properly designed, the quench areas can have a tremendous effect on the quality of combustion, and allow higher compression ratios, and due to this they are considered "artificial octane" by scientific types.
Bottom line is "properly designed, quench is good". </TD></TR></TABLE>
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 1
From: Auburn, wa, usa
Re: (Blind-Fashion)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blind-Fashion »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Stefan, What is your timing at? @ 28psi</TD></TR></TABLE>
18* BTDC
18* BTDC
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,519
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From: Auburn, wa, usa
And for all you non belivers, if you want to come up to Seattle and check out the car, ill take you for a ride in it.
Ill even drain the gas tank, and take you with me at the gas station and fill up while you are there.
And if thats not enough, ill pay for all your travel expences if you find something on my car that I have not allready disclosed.
How is that for a guarantee that im not running race gas, water/meth injection or any other type of crap.
Ill even drain the gas tank, and take you with me at the gas station and fill up while you are there.
And if thats not enough, ill pay for all your travel expences if you find something on my car that I have not allready disclosed.
How is that for a guarantee that im not running race gas, water/meth injection or any other type of crap.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,440
Likes: 2
From: Richmond, Va, usa
Re: (Blind-Fashion)
yea i would think it would need a lot less with those pistons. That quench area should be promoting a quicker burn. Look at the d16y8 combustion chamber with its quench areas. Those engines barely need any timing.
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,184
Likes: 1
From: Free bullets if you find me sucka, Washington
Re: (onefstek)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by onefstek »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And for all you non belivers, if you want to come up to Seattle and check out the car, ill take you for a ride in it.
Ill even drain the gas tank, and take you with me at the gas station and fill up while you are there.
And if thats not enough, ill pay for all your travel expences if you find something on my car that I have not allready disclosed.
How is that for a guarantee that im not running race gas, water/meth injection or any other type of crap.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not me..I'm to "fat" for your racing seats but I can dream lol
Ill even drain the gas tank, and take you with me at the gas station and fill up while you are there.
And if thats not enough, ill pay for all your travel expences if you find something on my car that I have not allready disclosed.
How is that for a guarantee that im not running race gas, water/meth injection or any other type of crap.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Not me..I'm to "fat" for your racing seats
but I can dream lol