AccordVT

I have searched around and can't seem to find any information on the oil in turbo's. When turbo charging a Honda or any non-factory charged car, you must run oil lines from the engine to the turbo and from the turbo to the pan correct? This is to help the bearings in the turbo stay cool and lubricated to ensure long lasting fun. A common problem I have heard of is the oil within the engine and turbo get very hot especially because they share the same lubrication creating a crock pot full of hot oil in the turbo upon engine shutdown. This creates heat wear and sludge la la la, bad.
SO MY IDEA: (Tell me if I am just missing something here or it is a cool idea MAYBE IT'S BEEN DONE I don't know) Run a separate and electric (not so reliable) or a separate crank/accessory driven oil pump. The pump would be small so it wouldn't draw much power. The lines, possibly an oil filter,and possibly a hard, in-line cooler would all house the oil for ONLY the turbo. I was thinking this would reduce the temperature of the turbo, bearings and oil at all times especially upon shutdown. If it were electric it could be run a minute or two on a timer after engine shutdown to prevent cooking AND you could run an oil that is more specific to the turbo itself rather than the turbo using the oil your engine is running (cleaner too).
On turbos with water cooling capabilities, you could use the same separate pump and lubrication concept except have two separate housings and turbines on the pump and also have separate lines for each. Using coolant/water mix and again a hard in-line cooler to circulate coolant throughout the turbo.

rmcdaniels

On water-cooled turbos, the water keeps circulating for a bit after the engine stops, so it's taken care of. As long as there's coolant in the system, the oil can't heat up past it's coking threshold and damage anything. For non-water-cooled turbos, it's easier to just idle the car for a few minutes to give the turbo time to cool off using an automated turbo timer, which you can get relatively cheaply.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I think your thinking is rather solid, but a bit impractical only because for hondas especially, because of their dependency on oil to lubricate other areas of the engine. This could lead to a couple of detrimental effects. 2 things that have already been invented to be able to address this that uses NO power draw, and about the same amount of electrical draw as you're proposing.

1. Oil cooler.

2. Turbo timer.


these devices work well, but it is all up to the driver to ensure that the turbo is not coking oil.

AccordVT

So using an oil cooler to cool the oil in the motor as well as the turbo and lines is sufficient? Or using a cooler and a timer to continue circulation of water (or do turbo timers continue circulation of oil?)

I was thinking the advantages were more within the fact that the oil that is used to lubricate and cool and/or the coolant used to cool the turbo would be cleaner and cooler (completely separate from the pan, block and other really large hot ****.

It's just an idea, despite how much I want to build my car and turbo it I have never owned a turbo in my life.


Modified by AccordVT at 9:47 AM 7/30/2008

nasteboyii

Figure it like this
motor has 5 quarts of oil (just for the sake of a number) to keep the engine lubricated and turbo lubricated, if you were to build a seperate system how much oil is going to have (3 more quarts?) less oil used more that would heat up and brake down over time, not to mention turbo is much much hotter then engine, which would take alot more oil moving thru it to pull heat out (with a cooler), the more oil u can use in a single system with cooler will provide the most function, IN MY OPINION, not to mention cost/easy of installation and use (not to mention space in our tight engine bays)

hope this helps, sorry if i ramble
dan

AccordVT

No, that makes total sense. Thats what I was thinking about. The separate pump and oil cooling system would probably use only between 1 and 3 quarts and that little with an extremely hot turbo would cause the oil to heat rapidly, break down quickly and be more difficult to keep cool. I still want to mess around with it someday, at least the water cooling.

AccordVT

Ya it seems silly but It wouldn't consist of all that much. The fabrication and installation would be pretty straightforward. An electric pump with two separate chambers, filters, and reservoirs. 4 braided stainless lines, two metal tube style oil/water coolers and an oil pressure gauge and turbo temp gauge would complete it nicely. for like $50-$250 it would be cool to try. You could have a tri-pod gauge pillar dedicated to turbo: Boost, Oil and/or Coolant Pressure, and a Turbo Core Temperature Gauge... Bad A** imo.
You could also run a lighter weight synthetic that would pump easier, cool better but still provide enough lubrication for turbo shaft bearings. Both coolant to reduce temperature and oil to lubricate, clean and prevent cooking could be circulated via a temperature dependent timer. The electric pump could continue running after the ignition is turned off for say 30 seconds if the turbo core temp sensor reads normal or 1 min 30 if it's really hot. SO if it works out:
No more idling before shutdown and a more efficient, longer lasting turbo due to cleaner and cooler operating conditions.

turbodano

I actually have a remote mount turbo kit on the company ranger. It is a 12 volt pump we mounted in the rear. It works well. I designed the remote oiling system a few years ago if there is some company out there that wants a million of them. We ran the truck for about a year before it broke a rod. We have a new motor in it now but have not put the intercooler pipes on.

tony413

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbodano &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I actually have a remote mount turbo kit on the company ranger. It is a 12 volt pump we mounted in the rear. It works well. I designed the remote oiling system a few years ago if there is some company out there that wants a million of them. We ran the truck for about a year before it broke a rod. We have a new motor in it now but have not put the intercooler pipes on. </TD></TR></TABLE>

that what all squires remote turbos run and i never saw the need for an intercooler on a remote set-up

turbodano

The remote mounts i have seen use a oil return pump.
I don't think they have a stand alone oiling system.



With all the rubber line it looks like it is a oil return pump.


Modified by turbodano at 7:49 PM 7/30/2008

tony413

it is just a pump in that kit. i misread what you said you had.

but i dont see why you couldnt just add a dry sump oil tank and oil pump and few hoses and add a power source.

wohla standalone oiling

turbodano

depending on the ems you are using it could even be a turbo timer.

rorik

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AccordVT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> When turbo charging a Honda or any non-factory charged car, you must run oil lines from the engine to the turbo and from the turbo to the pan correct? This is to help the bearings in the turbo stay cool and lubricated to ensure long lasting fun. </TD></TR></TABLE>

To "help" is to imply that it could survive without the supply of pressurized oil..obviously the oil is the turbo's lifeblood..weird choice of wording there, lol.

I think that while your idea is conceptually sound, it is realistically not. If anything, I'd say what you're proposing could very well increase the probability of failure for the turbo. An electric oil pump and electric water pump are 2 more items that can fail. While a failure of the electric water pump would not destroy the turbo, a failure of the electric oil pump would in seconds.. vs how likely is the engine's oil system to fail?
Assuming that you could engineer the system to be very reliable, then you have its function, complexity, packaging, and cost to evaluate..is it worthwhile? I don't really think so. Oems put 100k+ warranties on their cars, that isn't good enough for you? If you run a non water cooled center section with non synthetic oil, the turbo can cause slow constant damage to the oil, but with a water cooled housing, the temperature is held below that point. (non water cooled housings are only oe on diesels, with their much lower egts) Even that lame book Maximum Boost gets into this. As long as you keep your oil relatively clean, run a water cooled center section, and don't boost hard and then immediately shut the car off, the turbo will last a long time.
Just to bring this up randomly, have you heard of the aerocharger? It does not use oil pressure at all, holds its own oil, obviously isolated from the motor, and it does not use cooling lines either. I believe they also use some type of variable a/r turbine housing also. Pretty high tech, but I don't think they make them very large, it would probably take 2 of them to get the hp numbers people like on their hondas.