<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Full-Race Geoff &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">all motor testing tomorrow</TD></TR></TABLE>

Looking forward to this.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Full-Race Geoff &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">all motor testing tomorrow</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

we tested it on an almost stock type R, it lost power nowhere and gained up top, overall same midrange, more power up top. We learned we need to test this on a big all motor setup that can breathe. More info coming soon

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Full-Race Geoff &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">we tested it on an almost stock type R, it lost power nowhere and gained up top, overall same midrange, more power up top. We learned we need to test this on a big all motor setup that can breathe. More info coming soon</TD></TR></TABLE>

hmm yea sounds like a skunk 2 / aebs would be best for a mild all motor setup, but for a 2.0L gsr NA motor then i think it would shine.

bump for the na guys.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Full-Race Geoff &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">we tested it on an almost stock type R, it lost power nowhere and gained up top, overall same midrange, more power up top. We learned we need to test this on a big all motor setup that can breathe. More info coming soon</TD></TR></TABLE>

Don't worry Geoff, we had done some testing of the Edelbrock manifold on some mild to somewhat wild all motor set ups and lost everywhere, hp and torque. I feel if you have a crazy 250+whp set up the Edelbrock would work BUT it is good to hear you DID NOT LOSE power anywhere and actually gained up top! I can't wait to get mine

 

this thing looks and performs like its supposed too.. cant wait to see the NA testing to seal the deal nice work Jeff-Evans, Geoff-and the F-R team!!

 

Geoff, If possible can you guys take a manifold and cut it it half and take pictures of the insides? I would like to see how smooth the inside of the intake mani is since this is obviously an important aspect of a good flowing part.

Someone mentioned the scimlarities of heatsoak in carbon fiber complaired to Aluminum. If AIR wanted to get serious they could simply put a final layer of Boron Fiber tape on the whole manifold or in specific areas which would come pretty close into completely elliminating any kind of heat soak. Boron/Carbon Fiber is very effective, very resistant to heat and very very strong.

Carbon fiber is a very poor conductor of heat. Metal is a good conductor of heat. Right now there is very little that can be done with technology. It's simply a matter of design and materials.

*edit: Geoff... if you don't have a proper Honda to use for testing over the next couple months, I will donate my car for the cause. 2.0L B18C5 w/ Full Race Stage 3 kit....etc. etc. etc.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Full-Race Geoff &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">we tested it on an almost stock type R, it lost power nowhere and gained up top, overall same midrange, more power up top. We learned we need to test this on a big all motor setup that can breathe. More info coming soon</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm definately interested in seeing this tested on a big all motor setup, as I'm in the middle of doing one myself, a 2.1Liter 12+CR that needs a good manifold to let it breathe. My other otion is ITB's, but both cost and the fact that this will be for a street car favors the use of a manifold. And if this one works as well as the AIR, but for a lot less money I guess I'll have to whip out my VISA.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Haleiwa-Brando &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Someone mentioned the scimlarities of heatsoak in carbon fiber complaired to Aluminum. If AIR wanted to get serious they could simply put a final layer of Boron Fiber tape on the whole manifold or in specific areas which would come pretty close into completely elliminating any kind of heat soak. Boron/Carbon Fiber is very effective, very resistant to heat and very very strong.
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Wouldn't wrapping the IM in thermal bandage help eliminate heatsoak!?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Pompiuses &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Wouldn't wrapping the IM in thermal bandage help eliminate heatsoak!?
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if anything this method would prove to retain heat.. therfore increasing heatsoak.. b/c heat would have a longer duration of escaping..

think about it metal already is a super heat conductor, so when you wrap it or cover it with a thermal compound or fabric, that material is made to retain heat not shead it.. people wrap the turbo manifolds b/c thats the manifold and the turbo exhaust housing's job, to retain heat.. turbos operate off heat energy, so heat retention on the exhaust side is good.. therefor wrapping it would be good.. but wrapping the IM wouldn't.

now F-R Geoff pretty much explained it earlier.. there is one thing you just have to suck up, and thats the fact that technology is not cheap or available.. i am sure there are less heat retensive metals or materials out there, the problem is getting a hold of them in large quanitys and price you might pay for them..

its pretty much like this.. F-R team and Boosted-Hyrbid Jeff have developed a manifold that is high performance, durable, and cost effective for the consumer.. the AIR is a very nice manifold and CF has great heat shedding properties, but its more expensive and may not hold up to the abuse that good old metal can withstand..

there are soo many diff headers, and turbo manifolds out there for honda's its not even funny.. but what got overlooked was how air was being brought into the motor.. there are only a handfull of IM out and most are just carbon copies of the others.. in the last 3 or so years developent towards the IM side is growing as HP #'s are growing and the list goes on.. the scene is so big right now you will start to see all kinds of new ideas and products..

but i can put money down F-R will put most of them out b/c look what they have done for Force fed honda's in the last year.. its all about time and time is money..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by manikgsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.. the AIR is a very nice manifold and CF has great heat shedding properties , but its more expensive and may not hold up to the abuse that good old metal can withstand...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Incorrect sir , Haleiwa-Brando said it right. The Carbon fiber used in the AIR manifold is a very poor conductor of heat. This means that it absorbs and sheds heat poorly.

Aluminum is an excellent thermoconductor of heat on the other-hand so it will gladly absorb heat from the Intake charge, Head, and engine bay and gladly release it back into the air entering your engine.

Both Aluminum and Carbon Fiber have very a similar specific heat or ability to store heat energy but the AIR manifolds are much lighter thus have less mass to store heat energy. The "heat capacity" is 87% less than an aluminum counterpart.

This is what makes Carbon Fiber Ideal for an Intake Manifold.

Here is what makes Carbon Fiber un-ideal for use in a Intake manifold:

1) Cost

2) Cannot weld

3) Will shatter if you accidentally swing a sledgehammer full force at it*

* RTM Carbon Fiber is extremely strong but also rigid. Aluminum will simply dent when smashed with a sledgehammer, while Carbon Fiber will shatter. Keep in mind you will need to use a heavy sledgehammer with a lot or force to accomplish this. I have tested vacuum bagged Carbon Fibers strength many times with a hammer at full strength with no success in shattering the Carbon fiber.

One point you must also realize is that despite Aluminum Intake manifolds propensity to release heat into the air charge their is relatively low amounts of surface area inside the Intake manifold in comparison to an inter-cooler. I'm sure one could detect a measurable difference in IAT's after many runs but the difference would remain small.

 

the manifold is sick , and it is just the prototype , i seen it in person , and the pics just dont do it justice

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dasher &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Incorrect sir , Haleiwa-Brando said it right. The Carbon fiber used in the AIR manifold is a very poor conductor of heat. This means that it absorbs and sheds heat poorly.

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i learned something new here about aluminum.. but thats not what i was trying to say about CF.. it was really late.. like 3am here.. i didnt mean that CF was a good heatsink.. i meant to explain how it retians less heat energy(thus being a bad conductor).. but somehow i wrote that about shedding it..

my bad.. but good ****, i like the specs you explained on aluminum.. saved me some time researching

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by manikgsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i learned something new here about aluminum.. but thats not what i was trying to say about CF.. it was really late.. like 3am here.. i didnt mean that CF was a good heatsink.. i meant to explain how it retians less heat energy(thus being a bad conductor).. but somehow i wrote that about shedding it..

my bad.. but good ****, i like the specs you explained on aluminum.. saved me some time researching </TD></TR></TABLE>

Its cool... simple mistake. I just wanted to make sure everyone was clear on what properties makes the AIR manifold so great.

Heres some other cool information:

Thermoconductivity and Specific Heat aren't necessarily related.

Copper has a much greater thermoconuctivity --- 401 W/(m·K)
Than Aluminum --- 237 W/(m*K)

but copper has less of a specific heat(ability to store heat) --- 380 J/(kg·K)
than Aluminum ---- 900 J/(kg*K)

The reason we use Aluminum in Intercoolers is because its cheap, doesn't tarnish, and is lightweight. Another reason Aluminum is used over copper in intercoolers and radiators is because aluminum can easily be welded and copper has to be brazed which cuts down on the thermoconductivity.

Now if someone made an Intercooler out of Silver ---429 W/(m*K) that would be great..... or better yet Vapor Grown Carbon Fiber Nanotubes with a multi-directional thermoconductivity of close to 1000W/(m*K)


Sorry To jack the thread .... back to the Intake manifold....

 

anything new about this yet?

 

Geoff, out with it already! I'm going to call once a day every day until it's released JFWY.

-- 0x64

 

Any estimates on when it's going to be released yet???

I'm in the market for a IM and am seriously considering this one!!

 

supposedly not til at least june and on their website it still says 899, if thats the price i think ill pass and spend 600 bucks on something more productive.