Full-Race Geoff

THESE INTAKE MANIFOLDS ARE NOT YET READY FOR SALE TO THE PUBLIC. WE APOLOGIZE FOR THE WAIT FOR ALL B SERIES VTEC INTAKE MANIFOLDS WE WILL TAKE ORDERS AFTER SEMA


The initial testing thus far on all our testcars has been excellent, but we did not have any back to back test data against our competitors

Jeff Evans <boosted hybrid> was kind enough to do some testing using his AIR intakemani equipped turbo-b18c1 using a 28rs disco potato turbo (worst case scenario for a turbo car) -- here are the results.

THE DOTTED LINE IS AIR, THE SOLID LINE IS FULL-RACE







overall power output was strikingly similar, but the slight difference can be seen as the air has about 6 ftlbs more midrange (it made about 1/2 psi more boost on wastegate spring) yet our manifold carries torque and top end a bit better. This is good as our manifold is designed for big displacement/big turbo/high revving B-series engines. We will try to test on a higher power car soon, back to back.

Lastly, our manifold was designed to be used with a 65-70mm TB and this test was done with a stock 60mm honda TB. We will try to keep you posted with more data.

AIR vs. Edelbrock: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=961203


edit: AIR is out of business


Modified by Full-Race Geoff at 8:42 PM 11/10/2005

adictionbass

maybe im missing something, but which line is which

Edit: Did you go back and put that "the dotted line is the air" in there?

Either way, thats an amazing comparison


Modified by adictionbass at 1:23 AM 3/30/2005

buck02

man that is nice see if you can do a jg also those are so populare and if u can compare that also it would help out also
pm me when there ready k i want to try it out

turboEGhatch

If this mani stays cool like the AIR does and you can sell it for around 600, 650 dollars it'll sell like hotcakes.

andysila

oo yea, compare it to a victor x. when will the IM come out geoff?

boosted hybrid

I am simply amazed at the result of the test. I started to tune the FR manifold when it was swapped over on my car this afternoon, and found that the a/f didnt change at all on both the low cam and high cam maps. I tried varying the ignition timing to see if i could find MBTT at a different point, but lost either way i went. I literally didnt change the tune at all, and the power production represents this accurately. Fitment is great, leaves much more room in the engine bay than the AIR.

Here are the datalogs with neptune datalogging software between the runs:



I feel that the manifold will yield much more impressive results on a higher power set-up, but unfortunately i still have a stock engine and a small snail.

boosted hybrid

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by andysila &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> oo yea, compare it to a victor x. when will the IM come out geoff?</TD></TR></TABLE>

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=961203

Here is a comparision when i switched from the edelbrock to the AIR manifold back in the fall with the gt3071 turbo (i have a gt28rs now, so not comparing apples to apples, but the % difference is still applicable).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboEGhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If this mani stays cool like the AIR does and you can sell it for around 600, 650 dollars it'll sell like hotcakes.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Like any aluminum based manifold, heat soak is going to be an issue. Without using a polymer or fiberglass based material, its impossible to reduce heatsoak. The manifold started exhibiting heatsoak after 5-6 pulls, but again its metal not composite material.

Full-Race Geoff

it basically comes down to a tradeoff --

risk brittle fracture (cracking) of the carbon fiber or have a poorer heat transfer coefficient (aluminum)

we chose the latter which is far more durable, far less expensive and far easier to work with/modify for the end user.

FastEK9

AIR manifolds are still availible.

BodyKits NW

Nice, I have been bother Javier and Full-Race Henry about the manifold. I want one before I hit the dyno again!

dasher

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Full-Race Geoff &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it basically comes down to a tradeoff --

risk brittle fracture (cracking) of the carbon fiber or have a poorer heat transfer coefficient (aluminum)
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why does this rumor persist? Vapor Grown Carbon Fiber and Carbon-Carbon are excellent(and extremely costly) thermoconductors of heat. Regular 2x2 twill CF is not a great thermoconductor and in fact also has very similar heat capacity(gram per gram) as Aluminum.

Where the 2X2 CF twill used in the AIR manifold benefits is the fact that the CF walls are thin and the intake manifold can be made extremely light weight thus the "heat capacity" is effectively reduced by approximately 87%. An Aluminum heat soaked Intake manifold will have slightly higher IAT's because of this.

This being said.... great manifold Full Race.... I may think about getting rid of my victor x.

dasher

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FastEK9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">AIR manifolds are still availible. </TD></TR></TABLE>

And they will most likely remain the best Intake manifolds available because of their weight(or lack thereof) and ability to resist heat soak.

... but for half the price you can buy a damn good FR manifold so it looks like both companies will have their niche market share.

.... and for half the price of the FR you can buy a Victor X which is a solid IM.

Looks like no company is left out.

integlspwr2k

iTrader: (3)

put me down for one if its in the 500-550 range for sure..

tegedrex

Nice cant wait to get me 1

Finland

I think the AIR unit is so close to being un-obtainable due to extreme cost that your manifold will fill the void for people looking for the next best thing. I'm all about the long term durability aspect, so I like the idea of an aluminum manifold. Nice job on bringing out test-data before making claims, interesting stuff.

servion

Looks good. Especially considering the price tag difference, I think that this will be a sure shot. Lets see a back-to-back high-HP setup (maybe cough Geoff's car cough)!

Slick GS-R

iTrader: (2)

Very, very nice results! Any way we can see some pictures of the finished product?

SYD

good stuff...
&lt;&lt; patiently waits

JonnyCoupe

Could i just ask what sort of turbine the RS is running and at what pressure?

That dyno graph is EXACTLY what im looking for from my SiR and i had already shortlisted the disco pot.

alpha

Impressive to say the least. I will be purchasing on for my B18b as soon as they are released to the general public

Slick GS-R

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 0x64 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> . . . as soon as they are released to the general public </TD></TR></TABLE>

Any word on this?

dasher

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted hybrid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Like any aluminum based manifold, heat soak is going to be an issue. Without using a polymer or fiberglass based material, its impossible to reduce heatsoak. The manifold started exhibiting heatsoak after 5-6 pulls, but again its metal not composite material.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This would be another important test to do when comparing the Full Race to the AIR IM.
It would be interesting to see datalogs of the IAT's after driving around for an hour with the FR vs the AIR.

m R g S r

I love how jeff is always the one to test everything....I don't see that many other tuners offering their time and cars and knowledge to do so! Jeff Evans

Full-Race Geoff

obviously heat soak does play a role, but whats kind of cool is that if you notice that by the end of this datalog



the IAT of the AIR is at about 85 degrees, the same as ours....

mrDFWmechanic

let see some pics of the finished product