JM Performance

Ok, after the meet today and talking to a bunch of the guys I'm starting to second guess the mf2 for my fuel.

Can you guys who have actually used it or know people who have used it give me your opinions?

Please, no one who doesn't actually know the system respond.

Thanks.

supergreenNA1

what is it about the mf2 that you are second guessing? i used to be the sales manager at fmax so i programmed those things all day long. it is good for the purpose of adding additional fuel for a bolt on kit, but if you are planning on going further than the basic bolt on kit, i would order the kit without the mf2 and opt for a hondata system or something similar. fmax is currently considering making the hondata an option for their kits. the major issue with tuning a turbo honda is not the fuel, its the timing, and a btm is no cure. you need complete control, and a system like the hondata gives you that.

Evil DOHC

Hey supergreensol answer this question for me. Did u ever at "fmax offcourse" ever test a stock honda pump? I will put money on it that it will give out at over 200 hp at the wheels. And if the fmax kit don't make that under 7 psi of boost, then I can easily say its not worth the 3 grand. I have done two fmax installs and I can say that the kit is good, but the fuel setup is the weak part of this kit like I explained to 00silverls today at the honda meet.
Another thing, if u read the site whats the 30 psi of boost with the fmax headgasket is about? .
If u ask me hondata sounds excellent, but the fmu and pump is what most 11 second cars that I built use and I will go by that.
EVIL

Drboosted

It's very simple, sell the the MF2 and two injectors and get your self a good fuel setup. The motor will last a long time and you will run into allot less problems.
I never saw any fast cars at the track with a f-max kit. Doing your fuel setup the right way is your insurance so you dont end up with a blown motor.

Drboosted
10's are on there way.

SpeedMonkeyRacing

like me? nah...if mf2 is tuned properly..i think it has potential. However, I'm going 15+ psi so i'm getting rid of the extra injector ****

Jeff-

supergreenNA1

here you go dude. this is taken directly from the hondata website.

--As the fuel pressure rises, the volume of fuel the pump can flow drops.

This means that the fuel pump can flow enough fuel for large amounts of power if the the fuel pressure is kept low. This means that large injectors will need to be used.

What is important to note is that this pump (and most others) has an internal bypass valve that opens at 75 psi.

So from this graph, Hondas running the stock pump, and a rising rate regulator top out at 75 psi and about 200hp. So, this is not a good solution.

But, if you run your stock fuel pressure (say 40 psi) and this stock fuel pump, 650cc injectors will easily provide you fuelling for low 300 wheel HP. Honda computers will easily idle a 1600cc engine on 720cc injectors.

At higher pressures the fuel pump works harder. At 75 psi the pump is generating 40% more heat than at 35 psi. This will obviously heat your fuel more than necessary.--

the regulators adjust for boost in a linear fashion and anyone that knows anything about tuning knows that the fuel demand of an engine is not linear. therefore you are not getting the full potential of your setup by using a regulator for your fuel enrichment.
its been a while... but from my memory, the fmax civic kit makes about 212 at the wheels. the integra makes about 240 and prelude kits make around 250. so obviously there is a need for more than a regulator. regarding the gasket.... you got me. that webpage was there before i had anything to do with fmax. 30 lbs? maybe on a built motor. anyone who expects to run 30 psi on a stock motor deserves a blown engine.

Evil DOHC

I agree with some parts of your statement. Lets not bring single cam motors in this. We are talking about a dohc vtec or non vtec motor for this particular example.
A honda computer will not idle no 720cc injector as u stateted. The highest injector that u can use is a 440 cc and u will have to lean it out extremely with an afc or vafc to make it idle properly. Now the fmax kit comes with two 440 cc injector's as the secondary injectors. The fuel pattern and distribution is not equally distributed to each cylinder. The only way to get an even amount of fuel and most power out of every cylinder is to use the 4 injectors that u already have on the car.
Now its up to the owner of the car to decide if he or she wants to run high fuel pressures with stock injectors or run a bigger injector with lower fuel pressure.
Try calling RC I will guarantee that they will tell u that using 2 secondary injectors is garbage.
And another thing, I don't trust any injector that doesn't have a name on it. For all u know it was made in some basement and will fail under boost or load. To my knowledge the fmax kit does not use a name brand injector wich doesn't guarantee that the injector will fail.
EVIL

supergreenNA1

uh.. that wasn't my statement.. that was from the hondata website. and yes... you can run larger than 440cc injectors with the hondata. i wasn't talking about the factory honda computer. fmax uses lucas injectors in their kits. they get them from coast fuel injection.. and yes.. there is a warranty with them. you're jumping to conclusions here and u seem a little bitter about fmax with your "fmax offcourse" comment. let it be known im not exactly stoked on the fmax kit either. i have one.. but i got most of it for promotional reasons when i was working there. like you said, the kit itself is very well built and well thought out. the mf2 IS a step up from the regulator/pump if you're boosting over over 7lbs and under about 12lbs. all the kits i've built for my buddies around here use regulators, but they don't run them over 7lbs. when i first upgraded from a regulator, i used the mf2 to control 4 additional injectors that were mounted behind each factory injector. once again, this worked fine up to about 12lbs of boost but i started having issues with timing control which is why i now use the hondata.

Evil DOHC

Okay we are agreeing on most things now. I am sorry for the remark about u working at fmax. I like going fast and doing it with the least amount of money and the safest way possible. Thank u for clearing the lucas injector theory. Because fmax takes the name off the injectors. Basically we came to the conclusion that the fuel system on the fmax kit is plainly bad. Pump and fmu is the better choice and u do agree on that with me. Everybody runs ovr 7 psi at the track, boost is too addictivie lol. Timing is another issue.
EVIL

Drboosted

15 pounds of boost is allot for stock sleeves, the most you can push is about 18 but well tuned. Jeff i know your car can run hard. Just be carefull and try to listen to those that go fast. If you run a good fuel setup you will go fast. Im very happy to hear though that you are not running the other 2 injectors. Keep in touch and let me know how everything comes out.

good luck
Drboosted

PROFILES2000

i kinda figured id see this post today heh

SpeedMonkeyRacing

Hehe..right now..the damn thing is sitting my house waiting for parts to arrive. Ed fro alpha is helping me out since my broke *** don't have money to build the motor. However, I will keep in touch with you bro..just don't have your number now (my phone broke and I have loner..and it doesn't have any numbers on it). I'll call ya once my setup is complete Oh yeah..shoot the *** that weld my oil pan...it's leaking oil still!

Jeff-

Jeff-

JM Performance

man evil...you suck....now im all confused.

VaporTrail

I'd just like to state, for the record, I sincerely hate FMU's and AI setups. The more I work with Hondata and other stand alones, the more it makes these band aids look like play-dough to cement - just plain hokey.

JM Performance

so evil.....what exactly is it that you dont like about the mf2? distribution and the stock pump giving out?

b18bvudoo

i thought fmax comes w/ a pump and regulator along w/ the mf2...well thats what the picture shows on their website.

JM Performance

how about this: how much better would the system be if I made it run 4 extra injectors into the runners like supergreensol's old setup and a fuel pump? I know its not equal to hondata, but would it fix most of the mf2's problems?

This is just a hypithetical question, I know its still just a band-aid of a setup.

boomslang

I don't think AIC's are bad when compared to FMU's. Neither is ideal, but both WILL work for low boost applications. When is 100+ psi of fuel pressure ever good?

Tomakit

Hondata...

Tom

SpeedMonkeyRacing

yum...wanna see mine?

Jeff-

JM Performance

show-off

Rob03Pro5

I would also choose AIC/EIC over FMU. I hate dangerously high fuel pressures. Of course, the best alternative is standalone, but for the people who cannot afford it, I suggest SDS's EIC. http://www.sdsefi.com/eic.html

SiR Kid

Z-Dyne Yummy

ZygSpeed

I'f you're not going to use it (or you find another tranny), then just let me know!
... and isn't it actually "Zdyne"

SpeedMonkeyRacing

hehe..you wanna see it too?

Jeff-