diatibe24

I am new to the whole external waste gate thing, now i have it installed and getting ready to hook up a manual boost controller to it. My question is this what do I do about the springs (for the waste gate)? Do I run the lowest psi spring? Do I take the spring out? I have searched everywhere and can not find an answer on what is seemingly a simple question lol. If you are controlling the boost through a manual boost controller logic tells me to run a low psi spring inside the waste gate. Thanks for the help!

*I am coming from old school DSM running internal waste gates.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I'll put in an entire write up for the masses in case they are interested in Manual Boost controllers, so I know that you're from the DSM world, this isn't new, but bare with me.

@diatibe24 - Running a MBC vs. EBC doesn't determine whether or not you use a low or high spring with the wastegate. Its based upon the amount of boost pressure you're trying to get from the system. There are two types of Manual Controllers; Ball-spring, and "bleeder" type controllers. Most of the really good ones like the TurboSmart and Hallman controllers use a ball-spring type. Just like with the actuator on your DSM, there was a spring limitation inside the diaphragm that was installed by the factory. turned all the way down, the DSM ran from either the computer at the actuator's minimum levels, or it ran from the designated spring (say from an FP upgraded) like 14psi. From there you adjusted the amount of boost you wanted. Same goes for the external wastegate, the difference is simply the hookup to the side port of the gate, a boost reference point (Compressor cover or Intake manifold) and the controller. That's it. Nothing complicated. If you have a 7psi spring in the gate and want 20psi, you can do that, but remember, like the actuator style, the setting on the MBC can only allow you to go so high.. so if you want higher, you have to physically change springs in the gate to something larger to get to your target boost, as opposed to adjusting the actuator rod, or even switching internal actuators altogether.

Now, the rest is for those interested in MBC boost controllers.


It is always best when using a MBC to get a spring that is a bit closer to the target boost pressure that you want. Remember, most MBC use a ball-spring that only adjusts from a specific turn or click of the MBC based upon the vacuum reference it receives from the wastegate. If you go too low on the spring used, the MBC might not be able to be turned high enough (highest tension on the spring) to allow the amount of boost you're looking for.



These, for example use a lock-set screw



So, with Ball-Spring controllers, a spring-loaded ball is used to block this delivered boost "signal", until the desired boost level is attained. It is at this point, that the delivered boost pressure is strong enough to push the spring-loaded ball toward the spring and out of it's seat, allowing the signal to pass, and reach the Wastegate (side port). The boost pressure then presses against the Wastegate diaphragm (or on a Synapse, another apparatus) causing itto move, so that the Wastegate is opened. The opened Wastegate then allows the exhaust gases to divert away from the spinning turbine, thus preventing the turbo from boosting higher than the desired level.

So that means that the operator sets the MBC's adjustor to the desired setting. Then, when the car is accelerated, the boost pressure rises, and air pressure builds in the charged portion of the intake system. Because one of the MBC hoses is attached to this charged portion of the intake system, the rising boost pressure is also delivered to the MBC.

Now, as the operator sets this, (with the presumption that the car has been tuned with a specific range of boost pressure from his dyno session), he/she may have to get out of the car a few times to ensure that its to his desired level. The MBC is adjusted by turning a **** (or other adjustor), which varies the load on the spring inside the MBC. By adjusting it so there is more load on the spring, you are 'raising the boost" because more boost pressure is required to move the ball off its seat before the signal can pass to the Wastegate. In addition, lessening the load on the spring allows the boost signal to more easily unseat the ball and continue on its way to the Wastegate, so by backing the adjustor away from the spring, you are "lowering the boost". Don't go over what the tuner set from tuning time, or it could be curtains for ya!!

Ok.. With bleeder types, a valve simply "bleeds" off some of the boost pressure that it receives. It always allows some boost pressure to reach the Wastegate Actuator, but the boost pressure that the Wastegate receives is always less than the level of boost pressure in the charged portion of the intake system (or the boost level delivered to the bleeder-type valve).

This is because this kind of MBC basically is a controllable boost leak. Since the Wastegate does not receive the "full boost signal", it only opens the Wastegate when the amount of boost that gets past the "leak" is sufficient to force it open. The bleeder-type MBC is adjusted by changing the size of the leak.

The ball-and-spring type MBC is clearly superior over the bleeder type MBC. The ball-and-spring type doesn't leak any boost (at least prior to reaching the desired boost level), and then sends an immediate signal to the Wastegate to open the Wastegate upon reaching the set level. Since bleeder types are basically "bleed boost", its not so reactive.

Its best to have at minimum a boost pressure gauge when performing these alterations, and since these are hondas and not factory turbocharged cars, its best to be able to use a Manual boost controller ONLY AT DYNO TIME to tune the whole car before adjusting them for whatever range you're allowed from the tune. Going outside of what the tuner set as his range is a quick death to the engine so be careful. Best advice is to get the boost controller and don't hook it up at all until its dyno tune time.

nealnanoHX

Wow excellent write up on that Mac. Pretty much explains it all.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I just hope I was able to answer his question.. But since many on H-T are starting to look at manual controllers again, as a low cost usable option, I thought it might help to intro the use of these

diatibe24

Yes it did answer my question, thank you Now I know what to do. I am going to throw in a 9psi spring and hook up the boost controller. I am going manual because EBC doesn't make much sense for what I want. I am going to get my car tuned for max HP and just leave it at that. If it was going to be my daily driver that I would race on the weekends then an EBC would make more sense to me.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

What's the turbo and what's "MAX HP"? chances are , that spring might be too light for your MBC.

whitetegy1994

all have very good descriptions

NVturbo

I had good success with a Hallman's MBC. I know there are a lot of MBC's that are much cheaper but the build quality may not be up to par. OP, go with Hallman's.

diatibe24

Yes, I'll be going with a Hallman MBC and the turbo is a small Precision 4831B .63 a/r. I am only looking to be around 300whp.