when u say align hone earl, or any one else, do u mean align honing the bores to match the journals positions? or the mains matching..... something...
-Toby

 

Alignhoning corrects the distortion caused by warpage or cap stretch(main of the housing bores). The condition of the main bearing housing bores is one of the most important considerations, just like the connecting rod. Problems like scuffed pistons, ineffective ring-to-block alignment, and uneven compression ratios form one end of the block to the other. Crooked alignment between the cylinders and crankshaft will lead to scuffing and eventual failure of the pistons and connecting rods. Here...imagine the rod trying to force its way along a straight path in the cylinder only to be pushed off-center because the bore is not 90 deg to the crank. This creates high loads on the skirts of the piston, causes the rings not to seat fully, and forces the rod to ride on one side of the bearing. As the piston is forced away from its ideal path, so are the rings. They will not seal when one side slightly misaligns with the other. The end result is compression loss and excessive oil comsumption.

Bobby Snyder

 

don't forget blown oil pumps

 

I just had my internals balanced, and they actually removed some stuff from it. I think it had alot to do with a lighter flywheel and the crank pulley missing a small piece. I have the sheets somewhere for it, if I find it I will scan it and post it up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dasher &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Aftermarket pistons and rods should all come perfectly balanced from the factory. If not then you have a defective part and you should send it back. A quick check on the scale for your parts and you are done.

In-line engines don't have as many harmonic problems as V-8 engines.


Modified by dasher at 10:16 AM 2/18/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mdpalmer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This is interesting. Where did you learn that from? Personal experience or literature? I'm just curious. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i'm surprised no one has jumped all over this. i'm curious too. where did you learn this?

 

They are weight mached to each other!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ludesleep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Alignhoning corrects the distortion caused by warpage or cap stretch(main of the housing bores). The condition of the main bearing housing bores is one of the most important considerations, just like the connecting rod. Problems like scuffed pistons, ineffective ring-to-block alignment, and uneven compression ratios form one end of the block to the other. Crooked alignment between the cylinders and crankshaft will lead to scuffing and eventual failure of the pistons and connecting rods. Here...imagine the rod trying to force its way along a straight path in the cylinder only to be pushed off-center because the bore is not 90 deg to the crank. This creates high loads on the skirts of the piston, causes the rings not to seat fully, and forces the rod to ride on one side of the bearing. As the piston is forced away from its ideal path, so are the rings. They will not seal when one side slightly misaligns with the other. The end result is compression loss and excessive oil comsumption.

Bobby Snyder</TD></TR></TABLE>I'm sorry but everything you posted here is incorrect as related to align honing or align boring.
I think you are talking about crank indexing in a V-8 but I'm not sure.
When your crank main bearing tunnel is out of align, the crank freezes in the engine.

 

I'm sorry too but anytime you take material out of the aluminum block you are weakening enough to cause the aluminum to relieve itself, especially in the cylinders but the mains don't shift just because of stress relief by way of sleeve removal. They shift on blocks that have never been sleeved as well.
I know that it has been said on here before that the only reason you would need to align hone a block would be because there was a flaw in the installation in the sleeving and that's just not correct because of the fact that we checked 40 stock blocks on our CMM machine back when we started all of this and they had all shifted up to 2 to 3 thousands left to right. The align hone is very important and don't let anyone tell you any different. A good engine builder would tell you that it's very important to have done no matter what your budget is. Just trying to help protect your investments.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ERL Performance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm sorry too but anytime you take material out of the aluminum block you are weakening enough to cause the aluminum to relieve itself, especially in the cylinders but the mains don't shift just because of stress relief by way of sleeve removal. They shift on blocks that have never been sleeved as well.
I know that it has been said on here before that the only reason you would need to align hone a block would be because there was a flaw in the installation in the sleeving and that's just not correct because of the fact that we checked 40 stock blocks on our CMM machine back when we started all of this and they had all shifted up to 2 to 3 thousands left to right. The align hone is very important and don't let anyone tell you any different. A good engine builder would tell you that it's very important to have done no matter what your budget is. Just trying to help protect your investments. </TD></TR></TABLE>If the saddles shift by .003", the crank would be frozen in the block with only .0015" bearing clearance. What you are saying just does not make sense.

 

If you really looked at what I wrote I said up to .002/.003 and yes it does make sense and the fact that you acknowledged that at only .003 with .0015 bearing clearance the crank would be frozen shows just how serious this really issue really is. Look everyone, just ask Jim Justice and Vince at Golden eagle has said that they align hone their blocks. Like I said before we are just trying to present you with the facts from our research. Thanks

 

Exactly my point. I know Endyn align bores all his GE blocks and I know you align bore or hone yours after sleeve install and if your saddle is off .002" it should freeze the crank. BUT, as God is my witness, I have never had to align bore/hone one Benson block after sleeving. If there was a .002" core shift, the crank would be frozen when installed.

 

Thats right Sean! Often times pricing is kept low when corners are cut. I, and my customers dont mind paying for the most precise sleeves and installation in the industry.
It can not be stressed enough how important align hone is. If no-one believes me I would like to ask the people who have had their blocks sleeved and then after assembling the shortblock how easy it is to turn the rotating assembly by hand. Every ERL block we have received and built turned easily by hand with little to no drag......oh, and this was by grabbing the crank by the snout without the pulley in place. Every block Ive assembled from any other sleeving company Ive used in the past never had the smooth action of ERL's quality.

 

yeah but shouldn't there be a drag?? I mean you have piston rings being pushed on the rod angle against the freshly honed sleeves, not smooth glass wall like after rings are seated, plus you have that friction times 4... it makes sense to me that there should be some drag when trying to turn the crank by hand on a fresh built motor...

at least my block get tuff to turn when it approaches the 90 deg point on crank rotation... I'm hoping thats ok

 

I believe he is talking about spinning the crank after installation before pistons are installed. If you can't spin the crank by just grabbing the snout, you have problems. Strong guys can spin the crank by the snout with the pistons installed also but I can't.

 

Why is it then that Larry at Endyn doesn't use you all at Benson for all of his engine sleeving and I think your facts are a little out dated on " who is sleeving Endyn's blocks" now.

 

No, I am speaking of the assembled shortblock. The only drag/resistance there is is the rings dragging the newly honed cylinder walls.
Earl, maybe there is a reason you can not spin the crank after the shortblock is assembled.......this is what Im getting at.

 

come on guys, keep going at it, I have absolutely nothing to add here but am loving the exchange

 

I can't help it that I'm limp wristed.
I use a torque wrench on the crank bolt to check the force required to rotate the engine. I'm not going to say what I consider a good number as someone will come along and say their motors are 2 lbs less than mine. I will say that I would not accept a motor where the break away force is more than the rotational force required for rotation.