BoostedCivicSedan

So it has come the time to rebuild my motor... The last one was balanced, and surely took a hell of a beating for a very long time... But my question is, is it neccesary??? Is it really worth it to balance a block that for now wont see over 500whp, and will not be reved past 8k rpm???? Is balance really that detramental to the motor that at that low of power/rpm it could throw everything off????

All comments, and suggestions are encouraged.... Thanks....

Rod.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostedCivicSedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So it has come the time to rebuild my motor... The last one was balanced, and surely took a hell of a beating for a very long time... But my question is, is it neccesary??? Is it really worth it to balance a block that for now wont see over 500whp, and will not be reved past 8k rpm???? Is balance really that detramental to the motor that at that low of power/rpm it could throw everything off????

All comments, and suggestions are encouraged.... Thanks....</TD></TR></TABLE>

you have your answer right their

MidShipCivic

Not balancing your engine/crank when you replace your internals with lighter better stuff = short engine life.

BoostedCivicSedan

are weight differences between the pistons/rods really that different per cylinder to really require balancing, aside from just balancing the crank???

dasher

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostedCivicSedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So it has come the time to rebuild my motor... The last one was balanced, and surely took a hell of a beating for a very long time... But my question is, is it neccesary??? Is it really worth it to balance a block that for now wont see over 500whp, and will not be reved past 8k rpm???? Is balance really that detramental to the motor that at that low of power/rpm it could throw everything off????

All comments, and suggestions are encouraged.... Thanks....</TD></TR></TABLE>

What engine?

edit ... LS in your sig....


Almost every B series crank comes perfectly balanced from the factory by Honda. Most of the time you can get away with simply micro-polishing the journals before blue-printing your engine and you are done.

Aftermarket pistons and rods should all come perfectly balanced from the factory. If not then you have a defective part and you should send it back. A quick check on the scale for your parts and you are done.

In-line engines don't have as many harmonic problems as V-8 engines.

Since you are turbocharged you will most likely only going to rev up to 8K rpm(most turbo's start getting out of breath at higher rpms) and this doesn't warrant a perfectly balanced engine.

So the correct answer is yes, internally balancing your engine will lead to greater reliability and more power but is really not needed for your street car based on your desired goals.



Modified by dasher at 10:16 AM 2/18/2005

BoostedCivicSedan

I just blew my B18B to smitherenes, so Im building a B18A bottom end to put the B18B head on.... No VTEC for me

NJIN BUILDR

To be honest if you are using a honda crank and aftermarket rods and pistons my answer is no.All the cranks I've balanced were very close.The pistons and rod sets were always with in 2 grams.The v8/v6 stuff always needed to be balanced because the weight of the rotating parts is used to balance the cranks,this is not the case for inline fours.This is just what my experience has been.
Glenn

BoostedCivicSedan

My crank has already been balanced and micropolished, and I figure the CP pistons will all be extremely close in weight, and the rods shouldnt be far off either... Not to mention the fact that after I save some more money, I will be running a Fluidampr crank pulley....

XSIintegra

For the motor your planning out, I wouldn't bother balancing. My current engine will be fully balanced because of its 9.5k redline and projected 450whp. For an everyday driver, its not worth the money. I blew a valve out on a b18a w/ nitrous, pulled the head, swapped the valve and didn't even get the head machines...put it all back together w/ a new head gasket and she runs strong as all hell still (209k on that engine).

alpha

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostedCivicSedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just blew my B18B to smitherenes, so Im building a B18A bottom end to put the B18B head on.... No VTEC for me </TD></TR></TABLE>

Sell out. I thought you were going to build the Hemi.

0ERL Performance

We build a lot of engines and for the most part use JE, CP, Crower or Pauter and unless your engine is going to live on the track then we have found that it really isn't worth the money.There really is nothing taken out out of the rotating assembly and as far as the Honda crank, I think it's one of the best out there aftermarket included and the internals we use are in our opinion the best. The one thing I would invest in is a align hone.(Very important)

earl

I always balance the cranks. Some come close from the factory but when you buzz them at 9000+, a few grams out of balance can equate to 50lbs of force at high rpms.

mdpalmer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dasher &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


... In-line engines don't have as many harmonic problems as V-8 engines. ...


Modified by dasher at 10:16 AM 2/18/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is interesting. Where did you learn that from? Personal experience or literature? I'm just curious.

0ERL Performance

Your right on your numbers there Earl but the most we have ever had to take out of a crank was 2 to 2.5 grams and that was the worst case were on the Mitsubishi's that we have done they need 6 to 7 grams taken out. Honda's factory cranks are the nicest in the business. I'm curious though as to how much on average do you take out of the cranks that you work on? If any of you have the money in your budget for it it can't hurt to balance the whole assembly but my concern before that would be to make sure that my main journals are lined up correctly and that I had proper bearing clearances. Most all great engine builders align hone each block especially an aluminum block cause anytime you relieve stress on an aluminum block the aluminum moves. We found that the main journals had shifted not only on the sleeved blocks but even stock blocks with stock sleeves. If I had a limited budget then I think I would be more concerned about the align hone and bearing clearances than getting the crank balanced but if I had the money then I would do both. I just don't think that it's a necessity.

RyanEJ8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MidShipCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not balancing your engine/crank when you replace your internals with lighter better stuff = short engine life.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not necessarily. I didn't balance my D16 when I built it and it's lasted two years now besides the fact I can't keep the damn head from lifting.

h22 civic

balance it!

turbosi03

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ERL Performance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your right on your numbers there Earl but the most we have ever had to take out of a crank was 2 to 2.5 grams and that was the worst case were on the Mitsubishi's that we have done they need 6 to 7 grams taken out. Honda's factory cranks are the nicest in the business. I'm curious though as to how much on average do you take out of the cranks that you work on? If any of you have the money in your budget for it it can't hurt to balance the whole assembly but my concern before that would be to make sure that my main journals are lined up correctly and that I had proper bearing clearances. Most all great engine builders align hone each block especially an aluminum block cause anytime you relieve stress on an aluminum block the aluminum moves. We found that the main journals had shifted not only on the sleeved blocks but even stock blocks with stock sleeves. If I had a limited budget then I think I would be more concerned about the align hone and bearing clearances than getting the crank balanced but if I had the money then I would do both. I just don't think that it's a necessity. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Earl talked about a line hone not being needed with the method of sleeving he does... I hope he can chime in to explain why, or tell me if I'm wrong...

Tiferet

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by h22 civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">balance it!</TD></TR></TABLE>

hackish

If I bring a crank to my machine shop and get it balanced it's very inexpensive. I haven't seen a lot taken out the crank that was balanced when it was built. I believe Earl did it but I'm not sure. Maybe I just have a good relationship with the machinist but for the $100 I believe it's well worth it.

-Michael

Tiferet

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hackish &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If I bring a crank to my machine shop and get it balanced it's very inexpensive. I haven't seen a lot taken out the crank that was balanced when it was built. I believe Earl did it but I'm not sure. Maybe I just have a good relationship with the machinist but for the $100 I believe it's well worth it.

-Michael</TD></TR></TABLE>

100 is kind of high for just the crank. I paid 140 to get my whole bottom end balanced.

BoostedCivicSedan

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 0x64 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Sell out. I thought you were going to build the Hemi.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I did an oil change, and removed the factory airbox... That, coupled with the gutted cats, should definitely put it in the 10's lol

BoostedCivicSedan

If my crank has already been balanced and micropolished, it wont need to be done again, correct??? Also, If I get the align hone, will that mess up bearing clearances at all??? Is it really that highly reccomended????

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

I paid $100 to micropolish, magnaflux and balance my crank. Cheap insurance IMO. And you shouldnt have to balance your entire bottom end. Whats to balance? Good aftermarket pistons, rods and flywheels should all be balanced from the factory.

BoostedCivicSedan

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I paid $100 to micropolish, magnaflux and balance my crank. Cheap insurance IMO. And you shouldnt have to balance your entire bottom end. Whats to balance? Good aftermarket pistons, rods and flywheels should all be balanced from the factory.</TD></TR></TABLE>

My thoughts exactly....

So I have come to the conclusion that since my crank has already been balanced, I will just bore, hone, hot tank, and align hone the block, and it should be fine...

Is this correct???

earl

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbosi03 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Earl talked about a line hone not being needed with the method of sleeving he does... I hope he can chime in to explain why, or tell me if I'm wrong...</TD></TR></TABLE>Benson takes so little material out of the stock block to install sleeves that the blocks do not weaken enough for the aluminum to relieve itself. He also knows just the right amount of an interference fit to use. I could tell you the amount but then I would have to kill you or he would kill me
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostedCivicSedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If my crank has already been balanced and micropolished, it wont need to be done again, correct??? Also, If I get the align hone, will that mess up bearing clearances at all??? Is it really that highly reccomended????</TD></TR></TABLE> Correct on the balance, not sure on the micropolish. An align hone should not mess your clearances